E-waste copper recovery and getting rid of nickel and tin (soldering)

[anachronism]

Exactly but they don't pay on it- they keep it themselves.

If they are smelting the material, as many do, the expense of recovering an oxide of the metal encased in glassy slags may greatly exceed the value. Even with tin at $10 a pound that's only 68¢ a troy ounce. Nickel at 64¢ and zinc at 8¢.

The tin, and nickel, and zinc form oxides that will slag off when smelted with the proper flux. The copper forms an oxide that decomposes and returns the copper to the molten pool as metallic copper. So the slag may be rich (relatively speaking) in tin, nickel or zinc but it is usually sold off as a waste to a base metal refiner and paid on, if concentrated enough, and if it covers the refining fee's (if lucky) at a fraction of it's already low value.

So I don't think your refiners getting rich on the base metals, and they're paying on the copper they refine, along with the PM's.

Thanks 4metals. Still sucky though! 8) 8)

Some of the older material is genuinely laden in either/both of those metals though so it does "bite."

 

[niks neims]

Exactly but they don't pay on it- they keep it themselves.

If they are smelting the material, as many do, the expense of recovering an oxide of the metal encased in glassy slags may greatly exceed the value. Even with tin at $10 a pound that's only 68¢ a troy ounce. Nickel at 64¢ and zinc at 8¢.

The tin, and nickel, and zinc form oxides that will slag off when smelted with the proper flux. The copper forms an oxide that decomposes and returns the copper to the molten pool as metallic copper. So the slag may be rich (relatively speaking) in tin, nickel or zinc but it is usually sold off as a waste to a base metal refiner and paid on, if concentrated enough, and if it covers the refining fee's (if lucky) at a fraction of it's already low value.

So I don't think your refiners getting rich on the base metals, and they're paying on the copper they refine, along with the PM's.

Hey man, I have one of the greatest respects for you in GRF, and I believe that, due to your experience, you are our best chance to gain any truthful information about any large-scale refining operations possible back-office. But I have very, very hard time believing that the large scale refineries do not try their best to make a profit from each and every gram of metal (material) they get their hands...
I mean come on! The volume of material they work through... and in a field packed with top of the line scientists, engineers and inventors... the stakes are high enough for them to be motivated to squeeze all of the possible value out... I bet, even here, someone much smarter than me, could theorize how to get max value out of material like that - what about bathing PCB in good old NaOH - u get aluminium, tin, zinc all in one quick move...? And nickel - isn`t nickel magnetic, why can`t it be mechanically seperated? Especially if your end product is not "refined metal" per se, but some value-added product - like aluminium powder for example?
For somewhat trace values - like tantalum in capacitors - the "story" about selling slag to second-stage refiners make sense, but for the big ones - Tin & Nickel - it sounds more like plausible excuse - "this metal is too hard to get out" so you aren`t getting paid on it... Even if it gets sold to second-stage refinery, unless it`s significantly worse than raw ore, they are getting paid handsomely on it... And only reason that the client doesn`t see any of this money is just because they have snuck one past us...

By the way... what happens to all of the fiberglass (glassy slag?) from FR-4? Can`t be landfill...

 

[rickzeien]

"By the way... what happens to all of the fiberglass (glassy slag?) from FR-4? Can`t be landfill..."

What is FR-4? And why can't it be landfills? Wouldn't the fiberglass just burn off in the smelting process.

Why isn't the slag sold as road base or other aggregate as other mills like steel mills do?

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[niks neims]

"By the way... what happens to all of the fiberglass (glassy slag?) from FR-4? Can`t be landfill..."

What is FR-4? And why can't it be landfills? Wouldn't the fiberglass just burn off in the smelting process.

Why isn't the slag sold as road base or other aggregate as other mills like steel mills do?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FR-4

it is my understanding it`s the base material for most PCBs today - basically just fiberglass cloth, with epoxy, with poisonous flame retardants added...

 

[rickzeien]

Looks like the often discussed pyrolysis/incineration done properly is the way to begin followed by the smelting process also outlined in this forum is the best practice.

After that I would think ... But not certain... The slag could be marketed as aggregate or further processing.

https://documentcloud.adobe.com/link/track?uri=urn%3Aaaid%3Ascds%3AUS%3Af3a2bf2a-de26-44b3-bcbc-319cf8654056

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[Shark]

One could hammer mill the boards then run on a shaker table like Mount Baker Mining has done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr1LK2NKZ4&t=83s

(I have no affiliation with them) It seems like a reasonable alternative, but might need more research.

 

[rickzeien]

Looks like it does well isolating the metal but we are still left with non metal fractions.

How would we dispose of this safely at what cost? (Would be the largest fraction by far)

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[sathyashrayan]

One could hammer mill the boards then run on a shaker table like Mount Baker Mining has done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr1LK2NKZ4&t=83s

(I have no affiliation with them) It seems like a reasonable alternative, but might need more research.

mbmmllc shaker table is a wonderful concept that is simple and very cost effective.
But..
Air separated e-waste has dust collection bag. According to one of a machine vendor those dust is toxic. Per 1000 Kg around 50kg of dust gets collected. Disposing with ETP is unclear in case of mbmmllc.
Another thing is Air is all around compared to water.

(I am neither associated nor hate mbmmllc. Just sharing my thought.)

 

[Shark]

Looks like it does well isolating the metal but we are still left with non metal fractions.

How would we dispose of this safely at what cost? (Would be the largest fraction by far)

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Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if it could be used as a filler in concrete? Maybe some other type building material. Would it make a fiberglass roofing material? Filler in asphalt for road paving?

I am pretty sure that if one can filter the dust from an air type separator, they do it with a hammer mill. I worked in a cotton mill (cloth factory) years ago and the dust was controlled by super fine mists of water. Our cloths would stay dry, but it always felt damp in there and it had the extra benefit of helping to keep the place cool.

 

[4metals]

I think that it probably could be used as a filler in concrete or some other similar application. Interesting fact is that in the USA the EPA would require TCLP testing for RCRA metals before approving its use. Ever wonder why this type smelting and incineration isn't done in the US anymore? Other countries do not have the same standards as the US so we cannot compete.

 

[Shark]

A few years back there was a company that found they could repave roads using old tires as the filler instead of new asphalt. The cost was about one third that of the old standards but the EPA put a stop to it. The metal in the tire belts were cited as the reason. I think that recycling will never become an accepted standard until it can be at a lower cost than the production of new materials. So many places still charge for recycling things like waste oil, tires or some batteries, even though they resell them.

 

[rickzeien]

I think for me pyrolysis then incinerate to reduce the organic fraction. Done properly with an afterburner and a NOX scrubber would be the way to go.

Other than that I think the sorting and select processing then selling the remainder. That way the largest fraction of waste goes to the buyer.



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[Geo]

One could hammer mill the boards then run on a shaker table like Mount Baker Mining has done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sbr1LK2NKZ4&t=83s

(I have no affiliation with them) It seems like a reasonable alternative, but might need more research.

I received a fifty pound sample of concentrates from "high grade" printed circuit boards. I wanted to leech the base metal out with HCl and cast the remainder into anode bars for some test runs. Of the fifty pound sample, 12 pounds was removed with a magnet and HCl. Nearly 15 pounds was bits of PCB fiberglass material and other bits of plastic and non-metallic's. That leaves 23 pounds of potential, recoverable metal. I am expecting to have a percentage of that being other non-magnetic and non-metallic material. I may have 20 pounds of usable material when I'm finished.

 

[anachronism]

Jeff have you got a pic of the original boards?

 

[Geo]

It came from some guys on the group. I have some pics in my messenger but I would have to dig them out. It looked like telecom boards. Gold plated traces but it had what looked like aluminum or zinc boxes that also looked gold plated or anodized. It would have been much simpler to have processed them without grinding them up but now it's just a mess. It's two brothers, Eric and Chris. Big pot moguls in Co. Met them through Sonny.