E-waste scrap in chemical to be processed

[DIY5050]

So as you guessed it, I am new to the whole thing. Did a lot of research, so I thought, and began my journey. An experiment here and there, and next thing I know is, experiments everywhere. I sealed the leftovers up and put them aside to build my shed into a lab. Started with my work space and home made fume hood. It's a 55 gallon barrel. Bent plexi to have some doors. for fume extraction I put a 4 inch pipe in the top and around a 6" blower. Thinking 400 cfm would be plenty, I experimented using smoke on the exhaust. Even took another barrel made a psudo water bong outside with a shop vac. LOL, it kind of worked but the cavitation would shake the whole place. Let's not forget the poor neighbors hearing a shop vac, although it wouldn't last long. I created a way to recycle water into the 4inch pipe using the barrel as a reservoir, and a bilge pump with a custom spray I made to constantly soak the end of my exhaust pipe. I put lye in the circulating water, and a valve to drain it all when needed. That seems to work pretty good for a scrubber. Well time to clean up these chemical projects. after all, my first lesson, is one at a time.

I started with recovering gold from some scrap watches I started with AP outside a month ago. I started with the nitric boils, and started to notice a swirl in the fume hood. I could see all fumes staying inside and being sucked out, but I could smell the faint smell of the nitric. Obviously I added more ventilation. I finished the recovery wearing a respirator, got a real nice first nugget. Hopefully I add a 90 degree turn to my pipe to stop the swirling.

I have been reading this forum, and getting my ideas used here, as well as the methods from Hoke's book. Still mistakes are made and I just want to be safe. I have a stock pot that I just started, a second one, and was pouring off the waste water/smb/HCL into it. This was the second pour. Suddenly I got hit with a fume wave, that liked to burn my eyes. Enough to tell me to never go without my goggles, my glasses aren't it. But now I am stumped. WTH did that? I was just pouring off waste rinses from the second refining. I only had a few copper coils, and about 2 inches of solution in the bucket. I washed off, went out there to deal with this bucket. This time I had my goggles. I threw more copper and a silver plated over brass teapot, sealed the bucket and put it outside.

Sorry for the short story novel, but it was about damn time, I paid a sub to the forum, and started talking. Obviously I am still not doing things right, better start to learn more.
Thanks for having me.

 

[Martijn]

Welcome to the forum.
The fan needs to be acid resitant, or it will have a short life.
Another option is to power a venturi with it, so the venturi can suck in air from the fume hood without going through the fan.
While building your lab, make room for waste treatment buckets and drums.

That fume from the stockpot could have been SMB. Smells like sulfur and can take your breath away. it can come from using too much SMB.
Dissolve some in water and use very little at a time, observe and learn.

Using too much is a classic beginners mistake, from big beakers full of HCl for one tenth of a gram of gold, standard overshooting the nitric, or even premixing AR and then having a BFRC, to excessive SMB use. Adding more does not always improve your reaction. It usually complicates things more.

Look up air flow in fume hoods, i used a backpanel ( with gap at the bottom and top) and a divider box from wood to control the ratio of air flow being drawn from the bottom and the top. (some gases are heavier than air, some are lighter than air.) incorrect flow pattern can throw gases out in a corner of your window. Test the flow with incense sticks. With and without you standing in front of it. fully opened window and partially closed, fully closed, etc.

 

[DIY5050]

Welcome to the forum.
The fan needs to be acid resitant, or it will have a short life.
Another option is to power a venturi with it, so the venturi can suck in air from the fume hood without going through the fan.
While building your lab, make room for waste treatment buckets and drums.

That fume from the stockpot could have been SMB. Smells like sulfur and can take your breath away. it can come from using too much SMB.
Dissolve some in water and use very little at a time, observe and learn.

Using too much is a classic beginners mistake, from big beakers full of HCl for one tenth of a gram of gold, standard overshooting the nitric, or even premixing AR and then having a BFRC, to excessive SMB use. Adding more does not always improve your reaction. It usually complicates things more.

Look up air flow in fume hoods, i used a backpanel ( with gap at the bottom and top) and a divider box from wood to control the ratio of air flow being drawn from the bottom and the top. (some gases are heavier than air, some are lighter than air.) incorrect flow pattern can throw gases out in a corner of your window. Test the flow with incense sticks. With and without you standing in front of it. fully opened window and partially closed, fully closed, etc.

Yep, I thought it was too much SMB. I also rinse it out with HCL. I"m glad I was wearing my respirator, I didn't smell it. Thanks for the fume hood tip. I figured it was an air flow issue needing some baffling of some sort. I figured I would go through blowers, so I will check out the venturi. I knew about having too much nitric, which I researched before. Using only the amount needed, adding a little at a time is key. Too much HCL, now, that could have been it. I am not sure how much I used on the first dissolve, but it surprised me how much SMB it took to drop. There again, my yield was double what I was expecting. Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yep, I thought it was too much SMB. I also rinse it out with HCL. I"m glad I was wearing my respirator, I didn't smell it. Thanks for the fume hood tip. I figured it was an air flow issue needing some baffling of some sort. I figured I would go through blowers, so I will check out the venturi. I knew about having too much nitric, which I researched before. Using only the amount needed, adding a little at a time is key. Too much HCL, now, that could have been it. I am not sure how much I used on the first dissolve, but it surprised me how much SMB it took to drop. There again, my yield was double what I was expecting. Thanks for the warm welcome.

There is no such thing as too much HCl.
The only thing that leads to diluting the solution and increasing the cost.
Refining chemistry wise it is not that important.
Too much Nitric and SMB on the other hand…

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yep, I thought it was too much SMB. I also rinse it out with HCL. I"m glad I was wearing my respirator, I didn't smell it. Thanks for the fume hood tip. I figured it was an air flow issue needing some baffling of some sort. I figured I would go through blowers, so I will check out the venturi. I knew about having too much nitric, which I researched before. Using only the amount needed, adding a little at a time is key. Too much HCL, now, that could have been it. I am not sure how much I used on the first dissolve, but it surprised me how much SMB it took to drop. There again, my yield was double what I was expecting. Thanks for the warm welcome.

Respirators lasts only a short time and do not remove the most dangerous gases so they give a false sense of security.

 

[DIY5050]

Forgive me if this is the wrong thread. My first attempt at processing e-waste was started 6 weeks abo. Before my lab was built, and before my fume hood. I just went into it pretty blind with AP solution. I rinsed it with distilled water, and learned how big of a mistake that was. After doing a bit of research, I was able to clean up half of it with HCL, and filtered it. Now I have a beaker with a mud filter sitting. The other half was a clump of pins, mostly copper that kind of welded itself. I ground it up after really food rinsing, and a HCL boil. Of course I recovered the mud from that portion, which is in the other mud.

I put the pins in fresh AP and fully dissolved the base metal, I believe. I haven't looked in it for about 2 weeks, but I didn't find any more metal. I will do a stannous test prior to further processing. Assuming the gold is in the bottom, I would like to combine it with my mud and start from there. I plan to decant the AP into a filter to save for later. My concern is the mud, and the product in the AP now. I believe I could just go with a diluted nitric boil, and go from there.

Suggestions anyone? I do not want to spoil more AP, and I don't want to create another mess. I am trying to clean my mess of early projects now, and organize my wastes to process now my lab is built. Like an idiot I just started several projects. Before I start processing the new material I accumulated with the knowlege I have learned since the beginning, I am cleaning it up, one project at a time. Of the few first lessons I learned, is be patient, and one process at a time, one day at a time.
Thanks

 

[Yggdrasil]

Forgive me if this is the wrong thread. My first attempt at processing e-waste was started 6 weeks abo. Before my lab was built, and before my fume hood. I just went into it pretty blind with AP solution. I rinsed it with distilled water, and learned how big of a mistake that was. After doing a bit of research, I was able to clean up half of it with HCL, and filtered it. Now I have a beaker with a mud filter sitting. The other half was a clump of pins, mostly copper that kind of welded itself. I ground it up after really food rinsing, and a HCL boil. Of course I recovered the mud from that portion, which is in the other mud.

I put the pins in fresh AP and fully dissolved the base metal, I believe. I haven't looked in it for about 2 weeks, but I didn't find any more metal. I will do a stannous test prior to further processing. Assuming the gold is in the bottom, I would like to combine it with my mud and start from there. I plan to decant the AP into a filter to save for later. My concern is the mud, and the product in the AP now. I believe I could just go with a diluted nitric boil, and go from there.

Suggestions anyone? I do not want to spoil more AP, and I don't want to create another mess. I am trying to clean my mess of early projects now, and organize my wastes to process now my lab is built. Like an idiot I just started several projects. Before I start processing the new material I accumulated with the knowlege I have learned since the beginning, I am cleaning it up, one project at a time. Of the few first lessons I learned, is be patient, and one process at a time, one day at a time.
Thanks

I have moved all but your introduction here. Even if you make a mess in your lab you do not need to do so in the forum!!
Keep all posts related to the same issue in one thread please!

 

[Yggdrasil]

Forgive me if this is the wrong thread. My first attempt at processing e-waste was started 6 weeks abo. Before my lab was built, and before my fume hood. I just went into it pretty blind with AP solution. I rinsed it with distilled water, and learned how big of a mistake that was. After doing a bit of research, I was able to clean up half of it with HCL, and filtered it. Now I have a beaker with a mud filter sitting. The other half was a clump of pins, mostly copper that kind of welded itself. I ground it up after really food rinsing, and a HCL boil. Of course I recovered the mud from that portion, which is in the other mud.

I put the pins in fresh AP and fully dissolved the base metal, I believe. I haven't looked in it for about 2 weeks, but I didn't find any more metal. I will do a stannous test prior to further processing. Assuming the gold is in the bottom, I would like to combine it with my mud and start from there. I plan to decant the AP into a filter to save for later. My concern is the mud, and the product in the AP now. I believe I could just go with a diluted nitric boil, and go from there.

Suggestions anyone? I do not want to spoil more AP, and I don't want to create another mess. I am trying to clean my mess of early projects now, and organize my wastes to process now my lab is built. Like an idiot I just started several projects. Before I start processing the new material I accumulated with the knowlege I have learned since the beginning, I am cleaning it up, one project at a time. Of the few first lessons I learned, is be patient, and one process at a time, one day at a time.
Thanks

AP may leave some CuCl as mud and other crap.
Add HCl and filter out any solids. The Gold will be in the solids.
If you have used Nitric there can be Metastannic acid which is a nightmare to filter.
The Gold from this, will be in these solids.

How much material are you processing?

 

[DIY5050]

Thanks for the move. I thought it would be some chemical issue, you're right, don't want to make a mess of the forum. I appreciate what the mods do. It doesn't look like much at this point. It's still wet so I never weighed it. It was gold I removed from several finger boards, and plating from other circuit boards with heavy plate, like T-con boards from TV's. The rest was all pins I pulled from about 10 motherboards. I believe the majority of the mud will be CuCl. I know the first batch of mud I boiled in HCL before storing, and weighing it all it's about 14 grams. I filtered the 2nd match. Wanted to wait for a suggestion of weather to hit it with nitric or just go for the AR. Maybe someone has a better idea than me. I made the mess, so I am not the one with the answers. LOL. Maybe it would be just better to throw it in the stock pot.
This is the last bit I need to clean. I now have my waste buckets organized as well as the lab to better refine some real material, non e-waste.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Wanted to wait for a suggestion of weather to hit it with nitric or just go for the AR.

Any time you've used a chloride (or other halogen) based process, some of the chloride will remain, no matter how well you rinse the remaining material. So, if you add nitric, you will create a small amount of AR, which can dissolve some of your values.

Dave

 

[Dreamer]

So as you guessed it, I am new to the whole thing. Did a lot of research, so I thought, and began my journey. An experiment here and there, and next thing I know is, experiments everywhere. I sealed the leftovers up and put them aside to build my shed into a lab. Started with my work space and home made fume hood. It's a 55 gallon barrel. Bent plexi to have some doors. for fume extraction I put a 4 inch pipe in the top and around a 6" blower. Thinking 400 cfm would be plenty, I experimented using smoke on the exhaust. Even took another barrel made a psudo water bong outside with a shop vac. LOL, it kind of worked but the cavitation would shake the whole place. Let's not forget the poor neighbors hearing a shop vac, although it wouldn't last long. I created a way to recycle water into the 4inch pipe using the barrel as a reservoir, and a bilge pump with a custom spray I made to constantly soak the end of my exhaust pipe. I put lye in the circulating water, and a valve to drain it all when needed. That seems to work pretty good for a scrubber. Well time to clean up these chemical projects. after all, my first lesson, is one at a time.

I started with recovering gold from some scrap watches I started with AP outside a month ago. I started with the nitric boils, and started to notice a swirl in the fume hood. I could see all fumes staying inside and being sucked out, but I could smell the faint smell of the nitric. Obviously I added more ventilation. I finished the recovery wearing a respirator, got a real nice first nugget. Hopefully I add a 90 degree turn to my pipe to stop the swirling.

I have been reading this forum, and getting my ideas used here, as well as the methods from Hoke's book. Still mistakes are made and I just want to be safe. I have a stock pot that I just started, a second one, and was pouring off the waste water/smb/HCL into it. This was the second pour. Suddenly I got hit with a fume wave, that liked to burn my eyes. Enough to tell me to never go without my goggles, my glasses aren't it. But now I am stumped. WTH did that? I was just pouring off waste rinses from the second refining. I only had a few copper coils, and about 2 inches of solution in the bucket. I washed off, went out there to deal with this bucket. This time I had my goggles. I threw more copper and a silver plated over brass teapot, sealed the bucket and put it outside.

Sorry for the short story novel, but it was about damn time, I paid a sub to the forum, and started talking. Obviously I am still not doing things right, better start to learn more.
Thanks for having me.

Back to your fume issue. I had a similar experience and learning from some of the threads here that sulfur dioxide can be more harmful than cyanide, I added a make-up fan to my lab and added a fume ventilation system to my waste treatment buckets and stock pots. This made all the difference in my lab.

 

[DIY5050]

Back to your fume issue. I had a similar experience and learning from some of the threads here that sulfur dioxide can be more harmful than cyanide, I added a make-up fan to my lab and added a fume ventilation system to my waste treatment buckets and stock pots. This made all the difference in my lab.

Oooh very nice. Right now, I have them outside, covered in totes. Something I will look into as I refine this shed I built into a lab. In fact, once I am done with these experiments I had over started, I will be back to working on the shed. Thanks for that tip. Like a Newb, I guess, I started pushing the buggy before I had the horse.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Back to your fume issue. I had a similar experience and learning from some of the threads here that sulfur dioxide can be more harmful than cyanide, I added a make-up fan to my lab and added a fume ventilation system to my waste treatment buckets and stock pots. This made all the difference in my lab.

I think you get it wrong.
SO₂ is quite unpleasant but not very dangerous. H₂S in the other hand is deadly.
Luckily none of our ordinary processes include or creates H₂S

 

[Dreamer]

I think you get it wrong.
SO₂ is quite unpleasant but not very dangerous. H₂S in the other hand is deadly.
Luckily none of our ordinary processes include or creates H₂S

Great, now you tell me. Well, I've got a cool ventilation system on my treatment buckets anyway. Thanks for the clearification.

Since I have your attention, I've been wondering, can I just throw my gold plated junk in my treatment buckets along with the copper pipes?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Great, now you tell me. Well, I've got a cool ventilation system on my treatment buckets anyway. Thanks for the clearification.

Since I have your attention, I've been wondering, can I just throw my gold plated junk in my treatment buckets along with the copper pipes?

Not a very good idea unless it is plated open metal, you risk that the Gold cement out inside the PCB if you put plated cards in.
If you use pipes make sure to cut them open and flatten them.

 

[Dreamer]

The scrap are pins and watch band caps. I've been doing hydrometallurgy for 7 months and any copper that I've put in that bucket dissolves. My techniques are improving and wasting less free acid but, as you know, it takes time and experience.

My 2.5 kg of plated pins yield was pathetic and took me 8 weeks. Just not worth it. The way I separated the pins from the plastic was a high speed grinder which gave me starting material that was amalgamated and had to be completely dissolved.

I separate my waste in 2 separate buckets of copper. One for nitric waste and one for HCL (and everything else) waste before going to the Iron bucket.

I was thinking that I'd just throw everything else in the bottom of the HCL waste bucket and get back to it in a couple of years.

The only other thing I can think of doing with this stuff is just melt everything down and sell it on eBay to one of our future members. Of course, I am just kidding and would never do this.

 

[DIY5050]

AP may leave some CuCl as mud and other crap.
Add HCl and filter out any solids. The Gold will be in the solids.
If you have used Nitric there can be Metastannic acid which is a nightmare to filter.
The Gold from this, will be in these solids.

How much material are you processing?

I never used nitric as of yet, that's why I stopped and decided to ask. Only chemicals I used was AP, then water (which was my mistake), then HCL. So I took my mud, with paper filter, and boiled in HCL till the paper was gone, and got a nice coffee looking solution. I decanted that, mostly. I added more HCL and boiled. I do have some dust like colloidal suspension, it's not thick. and stopped decanting each time I started to see sparkle. I have everything at this point in 2 clean beakers. Because of the color of solution, it's hard to say if what is suspended is metal, or some crystal, or salt. Because both solution boils are the same coffee brown, I am assuming I have no change with the second boil. I say coffee because you can see through it the more spread you have it, like pouring, but in the bottom of the beaker, you can't see through, like a pot of fresh coffee. The solutions will sit for the next 8 hours, and if I do not see any additional precipitation, should I filter to collect the solids and rinse the HCL fully at this point? Maybe collect a small sample and hit with nitric? I looked into metastannic acid, and could burn it, but because I never touched it with nitric yet, maybe that's not it.
Hey, thank you very much for your help, again.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I never used nitric as of yet, that's why I stopped and decided to ask. Only chemicals I used was AP, then water (which was my mistake), then HCL. So I took my mud, with paper filter, and boiled in HCL till the paper was gone, and got a nice coffee looking solution. I decanted that, mostly. I added more HCL and boiled. I do have some dust like colloidal suspension, it's not thick. and stopped decanting each time I started to see sparkle. I have everything at this point in 2 clean beakers. Because of the color of solution, it's hard to say if what is suspended is metal, or some crystal, or salt. Because both solution boils are the same coffee brown, I am assuming I have no change with the second boil. I say coffee because you can see through it the more spread you have it, like pouring, but in the bottom of the beaker, you can't see through, like a pot of fresh coffee. The solutions will sit for the next 8 hours, and if I do not see any additional precipitation, should I filter to collect the solids and rinse the HCL fully at this point? Maybe collect a small sample and hit with nitric? I looked into metastannic acid, and could burn it, but because I never touched it with nitric yet, maybe that's not it.
Hey, thank you very much for your help, again.

You have not dissolved it yet?

 

[Proffshuggarn]

My concern is the mud

Residual tin?
/Dennis

 

[DIY5050]

You have not dissolved it yet?

No only boiled in HCL. There shouldn't be any tin left since I boiled everything in HCL before I started the AP and made a mess, just for the solder and tin. I will go filter it all and see what material I have left