EDXRF Measuring Instrument
- Thread starter Quirkzunc
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
Yes.
Noxx
Well-known member
Short question = short answer 
Ahha
Ahha
...
What exactly does he want though? Is he asking if I've done one? If I do them on a daily basis, if I can run a sample for him? Is he asking how to do one, which machines are best, etc? I can help with all of that but his question is very nonspecific. I wish he would've just "Is anyone here familiar with the operation of an EDXRF Measuring Instrument for materials analysis." with "if you are, kindly explain this ______ and this _______ at this ______ level of discourse."
What exactly does he want though? Is he asking if I've done one? If I do them on a daily basis, if I can run a sample for him? Is he asking how to do one, which machines are best, etc? I can help with all of that but his question is very nonspecific. I wish he would've just "Is anyone here familiar with the operation of an EDXRF Measuring Instrument for materials analysis." with "if you are, kindly explain this ______ and this _______ at this ______ level of discourse."
Noxx
Well-known member
Lou,
He's probably doing some type of research to know what % of this board members are familiar with EDXRF
He's probably doing some type of research to know what % of this board members are familiar with EDXRF
allanwcoty
Well-known member
I'll extend his ?. I'm new to the XRF. Is anyone offering XRF analysis and at what cost? If so, how many elements? Can someone tell me what the ED stands for. Also, what is the turn around time for either mailed printout or e-mail results? I had 5 samples turned in here in Alaska and they were sent to New York and what was supposed to be free XRF analysis got turned into a 5 fire assay $375.00 bill. I also didn't get a full XRF breakdown of my analysis, only partial on one sample (Au, Ag, Cu, Pt,) Story I got was the first sample scared them so they done the fire assay on the lot. Also they didn't keep my sample I.D. on the hot one, but put their own I.D. and haven't been able to cross reference it to my I.D. #'s. Enough rant. Have a great day. allan
Thank you all for your replies.
I am sorry! I could have actually asked the question, couldn't I?
The precious metal dealing company that I work for has recently taken delivery of a FISCHERSCOPE XAN EDXRF made by Helmut-Fischer in Germany.
I need to learn how to get a good reliable accuracy from analyses of homogeneous samples of unknown alloys of Au Ag Pt Pd Cu Zn Ni(and possibly some others).
What I was interested in reading about was anyone else's adventures with the use of a machine like this to carry out these types of analyses.
What sort of accuracy were you able to achieve?
How did you prove your results?
Were customers satisfied with a payout based on the results?
I look forward to reading any replies.
I am sorry! I could have actually asked the question, couldn't I?
The precious metal dealing company that I work for has recently taken delivery of a FISCHERSCOPE XAN EDXRF made by Helmut-Fischer in Germany.
I need to learn how to get a good reliable accuracy from analyses of homogeneous samples of unknown alloys of Au Ag Pt Pd Cu Zn Ni(and possibly some others).
What I was interested in reading about was anyone else's adventures with the use of a machine like this to carry out these types of analyses.
What sort of accuracy were you able to achieve?
How did you prove your results?
Were customers satisfied with a payout based on the results?
I look forward to reading any replies.
Irons
Well-known member
For $1000. a month, you can lease one and try it. For what the refinery uses it for, screening of incoming material, it will work well. For analyzing complex ore samples, results will vary.
I've never used that brand.
Generally speaking, your accuracy depends on who is using the machine. It's possible to get down to very high accuracy (ppm) with a high level of repeatability and precision. A lot depends on the machine! Proving your results is generally done with a fire assay or ICP technologies as confirmation--if you have two tests saying the same thing or in close agreement, the less likely you are to have any trouble proving. As to your customers satisfaction...well that depends on how nitpicky they want to be and how much they know about ICP and X-ray scattering technologies
Allanwcoty, I don't have an XRF (may change soon) instead I use SEM/EDX. The ED means energy dispersive x-ray (fluorescence) and it can look for many, many elements. Turn around time would probably depend on where you are in their queue of samples to run--it's only a <15 minute procedure if the machine is up and running, unless you run into problems or issues with repeatability.
Here's a picture of the inside of one I use.
Generally speaking, your accuracy depends on who is using the machine. It's possible to get down to very high accuracy (ppm) with a high level of repeatability and precision. A lot depends on the machine! Proving your results is generally done with a fire assay or ICP technologies as confirmation--if you have two tests saying the same thing or in close agreement, the less likely you are to have any trouble proving. As to your customers satisfaction...well that depends on how nitpicky they want to be and how much they know about ICP and X-ray scattering technologies
Allanwcoty, I don't have an XRF (may change soon) instead I use SEM/EDX. The ED means energy dispersive x-ray (fluorescence) and it can look for many, many elements. Turn around time would probably depend on where you are in their queue of samples to run--it's only a <15 minute procedure if the machine is up and running, unless you run into problems or issues with repeatability.
Here's a picture of the inside of one I use.
Attachments
allanwcoty
Well-known member
Thanks for the reply Lou,
Are you in the business of running samples and what would the cost be?
Are you in California?
I was intending to run samples to test recovery equip. that I use prospecting. Fire assay showed more value in my tailings from the gold wheel than in my con. or middlings combined. Looking for a table as that's what the good sample came from I believe. I've had 3 seperate XRF batches done. 2 single samples done in Fbks., Ak. and 1 sent from Alaska to N.Y. and have not had good results retrieving my data. All have lost it or mislocated the data. Guess that's one of the problems of using free services. I got one small nugget looked at under the ESEM at the university here while they were testing it that showed all the flakes hammered together into one nugget. Trouble with that nugget is that it was traded to my dad 30 years ago and don't even know where it came from. I prospect for fun and work construction to pay the bills. Would like to prospect year round some day. Thanks and Have a great day. allan
Are you in the business of running samples and what would the cost be?
Are you in California?
I was intending to run samples to test recovery equip. that I use prospecting. Fire assay showed more value in my tailings from the gold wheel than in my con. or middlings combined. Looking for a table as that's what the good sample came from I believe. I've had 3 seperate XRF batches done. 2 single samples done in Fbks., Ak. and 1 sent from Alaska to N.Y. and have not had good results retrieving my data. All have lost it or mislocated the data. Guess that's one of the problems of using free services. I got one small nugget looked at under the ESEM at the university here while they were testing it that showed all the flakes hammered together into one nugget. Trouble with that nugget is that it was traded to my dad 30 years ago and don't even know where it came from. I prospect for fun and work construction to pay the bills. Would like to prospect year round some day. Thanks and Have a great day. allan
I'm not in the business of running samples, if I do, I'm moonlighting
I'm not in California either; I'm located in Ohio.
I couldn't promise to take a look at them in any reasonable time frame--I still have some stuff to do for our lazersteve (which will be coming soon Steve!).
I've probably had over two dozen requests for analysis just from members here alone in the past couple months. More and more I am considering if it would be worthwhile to do assays. If/when I do offer assay services it will probably be contingent on me doing ICPMS and a proper fire assay. There's also licensing and certification to work out before I can legally do it. Sans the ICP, I have all the microbalances and equipment needed, just not the ventilation for dealing with lead nor the consumables. If it's between me buying an ICP machine or a Porsche 997TT it's a tossup, they're comparable in price and Lou loves going fast
I'm not in California either; I'm located in Ohio.
I couldn't promise to take a look at them in any reasonable time frame--I still have some stuff to do for our lazersteve (which will be coming soon Steve!).
I've probably had over two dozen requests for analysis just from members here alone in the past couple months. More and more I am considering if it would be worthwhile to do assays. If/when I do offer assay services it will probably be contingent on me doing ICPMS and a proper fire assay. There's also licensing and certification to work out before I can legally do it. Sans the ICP, I have all the microbalances and equipment needed, just not the ventilation for dealing with lead nor the consumables. If it's between me buying an ICP machine or a Porsche 997TT it's a tossup, they're comparable in price
and Lou loves going fast Lou said:If it's between me buying an ICP machine or a Porsche 997TT it's a tossup, they're comparable in price
Ouch! One would need to do a lot of assays to make that back. There would almost have to be a bit of toy factor built in to that.
For training and quality control, certified samples are available to those doing quantitative analysis from chemical supply houses.
If standards are not part of the package, they should be procured ASAP.
Recently I had the chance to admire a rather small container of "standardized dried sewage sludge". It came with a long certificate, and silver was cheap compared to it.....
If standards are not part of the package, they should be procured ASAP.
Recently I had the chance to admire a rather small container of "standardized dried sewage sludge". It came with a long certificate, and silver was cheap compared to it.....
Lou, that one looks pretty flash compared to the one that I use.
I don't think that its in the same league somehow.
You can see the type that I am referring to if you are interested at www.helmut-fischer.com and looking up the XAN.
I find that its quite surprising how difficult it is to understand the software that comes with it even after studying the manual and speaking to the supplier.
There are terms used such as "def.MA" and others without satisfactory explanations as to what they really mean. Also the manual doesn't provide any real flowing step by step approach to doing anything. It seems to read more like a legal document than an instruction book.
Thank you for your reply.
I don't think that its in the same league somehow.
You can see the type that I am referring to if you are interested at www.helmut-fischer.com and looking up the XAN.
I find that its quite surprising how difficult it is to understand the software that comes with it even after studying the manual and speaking to the supplier.
There are terms used such as "def.MA" and others without satisfactory explanations as to what they really mean. Also the manual doesn't provide any real flowing step by step approach to doing anything. It seems to read more like a legal document than an instruction book.
Thank you for your reply.
