Electrolitic recovery and refining from book Nicholas Nickerson

[Walter Kurz]

Hello,

Please help a newbie understand...
I bought a book by Nicholas Nickerson - "GOLD REFINING FOR THE AMATEUR CHEMIST" via Amazon-Kindle.
This book has a chapter called "ELECTROLITIC RECOVERY AND REFINING".
I would like to present the text of this chapter to the esteemed public for review:


«ELECTROLITIC RECOVERY AND REFINING

Gold can be recovered and refined at the same time in an electrolytic bath of Hydrochloric Acid.

C.L.S. Leach Tank -

materials needed -

5 gallon pail stainless
steel cathode plate

3 to 5 inches wide (negative) graphite rod (positive) mounted on the side of the pail is a graphite rod 1-3 inches into the liquid. The other side of the pail has a removable stainless steel plate suspended into the liquid 2-6 inches. Attach a DC voltage source -/+ as stated. All metals from the raw materials will precipitate and collect on the stainless steel plate as a red/brown mud - brown/black, high gold and pmg's. red mud - copper, lead and silver.

CLS LEACH MIX

add 1 gallon water to the tank
add 1 gallon of muriatic acid
add 100 mi's of sulfuric acid

Mix 1 ounce CLS mix with a small amount of water, add the CLS/water mixture to the tank slowly Add water to compensate for evaporation with use. Keep the temperature between 120-180 degrees F».

Maybe I'm very stupid, but I didn't understand anything. Where should I put the gold-containing material? I ask for help from respected old-timers! Please give explanations or give a link to a topic where a similar process is described, if possible with pictures!

Thank you in advance!

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello,

Please help a newbie understand...
I bought a book by Nicholas Nickerson - "GOLD REFINING FOR THE AMATEUR CHEMIST" via Amazon-Kindle.
This book has a chapter called "ELECTROLITIC RECOVERY AND REFINING".
I would like to present the text of this chapter to the esteemed public for review:


«ELECTROLITIC RECOVERY AND REFINING

Gold can be recovered and refined at the same time in an electrolytic bath of Hydrochloric Acid.

C.L.S. Leach Tank -

materials needed -

5 gallon pail stainless
steel cathode plate

3 to 5 inches wide (negative) graphite rod (positive) mounted on the side of the pail is a graphite rod 1-3 inches into the liquid. The other side of the pail has a removable stainless steel plate suspended into the liquid 2-6 inches. Attach a DC voltage source -/+ as stated. All metals from the raw materials will precipitate and collect on the stainless steel plate as a red/brown mud - brown/black, high gold and pmg's. red mud - copper, lead and silver.

CLS LEACH MIX

add 1 gallon water to the tank
add 1 gallon of muriatic acid
add 100 mi's of sulfuric acid

Mix 1 ounce CLS mix with a small amount of water, add the CLS/water mixture to the tank slowly Add water to compensate for evaporation with use. Keep the temperature between 120-180 degrees F».

Maybe I'm very stupid, but I didn't understand anything. Where should I put the gold-containing material? I ask for help from respected old-timers! Please give explanations or give a link to a topic where a similar process is described, if possible with pictures!

Thank you in advance!

Welcome to us.

This do not sound like something that can be done.
HCl and Stainless do not play well together.
What is CLS.
Better study these links and download and read CM Hokes book in th links.

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

 

[Martijn]

Hello,

Please help a newbie understand...
I bought a book by Nicholas Nickerson - "GOLD REFINING FOR THE AMATEUR CHEMIST" via Amazon-Kindle.
This book has a chapter called "ELECTROLITIC RECOVERY AND REFINING".
I would like to present the text of this chapter to the esteemed public for review:


«ELECTROLITIC RECOVERY AND REFINING

Gold can be recovered and refined at the same time in an electrolytic bath of Hydrochloric Acid.

C.L.S. Leach Tank -

materials needed -

5 gallon pail stainless
steel cathode plate

3 to 5 inches wide (negative) graphite rod (positive) mounted on the side of the pail is a graphite rod 1-3 inches into the liquid. The other side of the pail has a removable stainless steel plate suspended into the liquid 2-6 inches. Attach a DC voltage source -/+ as stated. All metals from the raw materials will precipitate and collect on the stainless steel plate as a red/brown mud - brown/black, high gold and pmg's. red mud - copper, lead and silver.

CLS LEACH MIX

add 1 gallon water to the tank
add 1 gallon of muriatic acid
add 100 mi's of sulfuric acid

Mix 1 ounce CLS mix with a small amount of water, add the CLS/water mixture to the tank slowly Add water to compensate for evaporation with use. Keep the temperature between 120-180 degrees F».

Maybe I'm very stupid, but I didn't understand anything. Where should I put the gold-containing material? I ask for help from respected old-timers! Please give explanations or give a link to a topic where a similar process is described, if possible with pictures!

Thank you in advance!

welcome to the forum.

If the book does not explain it, return it. It's a very poor book obviously. Or, you have insufficient knowledge of chemistry and terminology causing trouble with understanding, or did not take enough time to read.

I'm expecting the C to stand for cyanide. do you know how to cyanide leach?

For which kind of material are you asking this?

What is CLS?

All metals from the raw materials will precipitate and collect on the stainless steel plate as a red/brown mud - brown/black, high gold and pmg's. red mud - copper, lead and silver.

This is not refining. but recovering.

 

[Yggdrasil]

welcome to the forum.

If the book does not explain it, return it. It's a very poor book obviously. Or, you have insufficient knowledge of chemistry and terminology causing trouble with understanding, or did not take enough time to read.

I'm expecting the C to stand for cyanide. do you know how to cyanide leach?

For which kind of material are you asking this?

What is CLS?

This is not refining. but recovering.

Read it again.
It is not Cyanide as you mix it from HCl and Sulfuric.
I missed it the first time too.

 

[Martijn]

He also has one other book...




420 kid?

 

[Yggdrasil]

He also has one other book...

View attachment 65691


420 kid?

My search showed the same.
At best unknown in the refining world.

 

[Martijn]

My search showed the same.
At best unknown in the refining world.

Often synonymous for big unrealistic plans that are never executed, to put things (the amateurs refining book) in perspective.

 

[offtrailhiker]

Mixing HCl and H2SO4 in a pot then heating to 180 degrees isn't a project I'd want to be anywhere near

 

[Martijn]

Mixing HCl and H2SO4 in a pot then heating to 180 degrees isn't a project I'd want to be anywhere near

180 degrees Fahrenheit is 82,2 degrees Celsius. I do my AR and sulfuric waste evaporation at around 80C. Am i overlooking certain risks?

 

[Shark]

Where should I put the gold-containing material?

Common sense would say your gold should be in a solution. This is from the statement to add it to an electrolyte cell. Further, since you add an electrode and cathode in the bucket, your solution goes into this bucket as well.
If you made it that far, my next suggestion is to run as the HCl and Sulfuric mixture will eat that bucket fairly quick at 180 degrees. If you use a plastic bucket, it may even melt just from being heated. Just from the text posted, it appears this is written to catch newbies that have gold fever more than how to help them learn to refine.
If you want to learn refining just read the forum, there is more information here and than can be written in a single book, and certainly more information than can be put into a video.

 

[Martijn]

Some more "info" (read: we're not going to tell you anything, except how very-very-non-cyanide this wonder product actually is and how evil cyanide really is) about CLS leaching and the very slick windows-98-style-website, a commercial with some strange last century AI Voice, yeah. I get a strong Jinchan / Shore feeling...

https://goldwavetables.com/chemical-leaching-system.html

With the mentioning of a manual for all your gold processes!!! Hurry up and buy! (don't)

 

[4metals]

Please help a newbie understand...

I think by now you get the message that an author, whom has no industrial recognition, enticed you to buy his book. I think now the best thing you can do is tell us what you have to refine and the quantity. Please give as much detail as possible and we can help you with your study.

There are members here willing to share and surely someone with hands on experience with the material you have can help you. Maybe Nicholas Nickerson (is that really his name? Cmon!) would learn something here too.

 

[Walter Kurz]

Many thanks to all who responded!

I bought this book relatively recently and started studying it. At the same time, I am gradually collecting gold-containing material (mostly computer waste, poor and normal).

Now it begins to dawn on me that the article presented to you is about the process of cyanide leaching substitute (CLS). As the title of this book (complete compendium) suggests, the narrative is greatly shortened, and much has to be figured out by myself.

As I assume, the described setup should use a solution of gold chloride (gold dissolved in aqua regia) - this seems most likely to me. But, unfortunately, this is not directly written in the book. I think most of you will agree with me.

I have read two great books by C.M. Hook and C.W. Ammen, but they mainly describe the processes of recycling jeweler's waste or gold mining from ores. Nowadays, every beginner would like to have an understandable guide to processing modern material, for example, different types of computer scrap.

Here's another question, although it's not on topic. The above-mentioned book also provides a recipe for a solution for removing solder from gold-plated elements. I quote again:

"Sodium Nitrate (nitrogen) bath (for desolving iron, copper and other unwanted metals)

One cup Sodium Nitrate, one cup distilled water, for soaking processors, gold fingers, pins and other plated materials (this liquid will dissolve solder great other metals not so much)".

What can you say about the efficiency of this solution?
Maybe you can give me a link to a simple working solution for removing solder from gold plated items?

Thank you in advance!

P.S. Thanks to Martijn for the link!

 

[4metals]

The CLS process is one developed and marketed by Action Mining Services, all of the different leaches and equipment for electrolytic recovery are found HERE. Jim Humbles book without any doubt, is much better than Nicholas Nickerson's attempt.

Nowadays, every beginner would like to have an understandable guide to processing modern material, for example, different types of computer scrap

This is covered here on the forum using different approaches. In bulk, which is how I have processed much e-scrap over the years by smelting or for smaller processors by AP leaches to dissolve the under plate and release gold foils.

A visit to the library by clicking the link in my signature line below may save you a lot of time getting started.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I have read two great books by C.M. Hook and C.W. Ammen, but they mainly describe the processes of recycling jeweler's waste or gold mining from ores. Nowadays, every beginner would like to have an understandable guide to processing modern material, for example, different types of computer scrap.

In my opinion, Hoke's book is much more accurate than Ammen's. There are just too many error's in Ammen's book for my liking. Once you've spent a few years studying, you'll be able to recognize them, but a beginner may follow the advice and end up in trouble.

Here's another question, although it's not on topic. The above-mentioned book also provides a recipe for a solution for removing solder from gold-plated elements. I quote again:


"Sodium Nitrate (nitrogen) bath (for desolving iron, copper and other unwanted metals)

One cup Sodium Nitrate, one cup distilled water, for soaking processors, gold fingers, pins and other plated materials (this liquid will dissolve solder great other metals not so much)".

What can you say about the efficiency of this solution?

If you can, try to return the book and get a refund. The above is a perfect example of the incorrect information. Sodium nitrate is a compound with the chemical formula NaNO₃ (one atom of sodium (Na) combined with one atom of nitrogen (N), and three atoms of oxygen (O₃). Nitrogen has the formula N₂. It is simply two atoms of nitrogen. That's a huge difference.

Sodium nitrate dissolved in water is not going to dissolve solder, iron, copper, or other metals.

Dissolving solder is easy. Simply put the material into hydrochloric acid (aka muriatic acid (HCl), readily available at most hardware stores).

Dave

 

[Martijn]

Many thanks to all who responded!

I bought this book relatively recently and started studying it. At the same time, I am gradually collecting gold-containing material (mostly computer waste, poor and normal).

Now it begins to dawn on me that the article presented to you is about the process of cyanide leaching substitute (CLS). As the title of this book (complete compendium) suggests, the narrative is greatly shortened, and much has to be figured out by myself.

As I assume, the described setup should use a solution of gold chloride (gold dissolved in aqua regia) - this seems most likely to me. But, unfortunately, this is not directly written in the book. I think most of you will agree with me.

I have read two great books by C.M. Hook and C.W. Ammen, but they mainly describe the processes of recycling jeweler's waste or gold mining from ores. Nowadays, every beginner would like to have an understandable guide to processing modern material, for example, different types of computer scrap.

Here's another question, although it's not on topic. The above-mentioned book also provides a recipe for a solution for removing solder from gold-plated elements. I quote again:

"Sodium Nitrate (nitrogen) bath (for desolving iron, copper and other unwanted metals)

One cup Sodium Nitrate, one cup distilled water, for soaking processors, gold fingers, pins and other plated materials (this liquid will dissolve solder great other metals not so much)".

What can you say about the efficiency of this solution?
Maybe you can give me a link to a simple working solution for removing solder from gold plated items?

Thank you in advance!

P.S. Thanks to Martijn for the link!

How much material are you planning to process? It matters if you have all the time in the world or if there is a truckload coming in every day.

Can you still return the book? It's obviously not worth the money.

 

[offtrailhiker]

180 degrees Fahrenheit is 82,2 degrees Celsius. I do my AR and sulfuric waste evaporation at around 80C. Am i overlooking certain risks?

If you cook a mixture of HCl and H2SO4 in an open pot, then yes you are. If you are cooking AR in an open pot, then yes you are. The recipe offered in the OP makes no mention of a hood or any protective gear.

Edit: Nor does it offer any suggestion of toxic waste containment. So, again, YES!

 

[Martijn]

Not cooking (i read boiling) H2SO4, just heating to 80C, you would need 300+ degrees C to "cook" H2SO4.
Ok, so besides the mandatory fume hood, warm sulfuric and standard waste treatment, no extra risks.

 

[Walter Kurz]

Many thanks to all who answered!

The material I am going to recycle is all sorts of computer hardware, unfortunately, not as old as I would like. Motherboards, video cards, memory modules, etc. The material for me is gradually accumulating in one medium-sized company. Once a year I can dig around and take what I need.

As for dissolving solder with hydrochloric acid, thank you, I understood.

As for "my book", it is too late to return it, but if the community wish, I can post it on the forum for everyone to see in *.pdf format (it is not worth buying). Just tell me where to post it, if you are interested?

Thanks to 4metals for the link!
I will try to get this book "CLS Manual, Non-Cyanide Leaching" by Jim V. Humble

 

[FrugalRefiner]

As for "my book", it is too late to return it, but if the community wish, I can post it on the forum for everyone to see in *.pdf format (it is not worth buying). Just tell me where to post it, if you are interested?

Unless it was written many decades ago, it is protected by copyright and must not be posted here.

Dave