Electromagnetis Induction Furnace Ubuild

[Herman]

Any one on this forum have an electrical engineering back ground?I worked with a guy years ago who built an induction furnace using a car alternator and a gas motor driving it at around 18,000 rpm.I wrote down as much as I could remember after he left but dont have everything in detail to make it work(the schematic).The guy I was working with couldnt get the thing to melt platinum as that was what he built it for.It was in the tuning that the main problem was.He copied it from someone and missed something so that it didnt function as well but he did get a piece of grade 3 steel red hot.I can pass on my info to some one who has a better electrical background to try to figure this out and get an actual working unit going anyone can afford to make.
2 things though.
1st when it was running the cooling blades on the alternator go sonic so it sounds like a jet engine.really cool to see but very very very load so you need to be way way out there to not break any noise laws
2nd the unit uses a scatter shield around the alternator in case of a blowup because this was really pushing the design usage of an alternator way beyond what it was originally intended for.The bearings had to be changed every 2nd running.He was using hydrogen induction on it as well so a very line was needed to keep the hydrogen tank far away out of harms reach.we used a steel brake line for the distance.Id like to get the rest of the circuit figured out before I build a unit to try.
Herman

 

[upcyclist]

That sounds like a fun experiment, but nothing I would ever rely on for refining. I certainly wouldn't want equipment that I have to service every other time I use it.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

Why ramp up the alternator so high?
Couldn't you just run a couple of them together if wired correctly?

 

[Herman]

if you were melting an ounce of Pt or so then it would be worth replacing the bearings every second time for the average guy who cant afford $1/4 million for a commercial unit. that does the same thing but less maintenance and then only if you even have the power service to get hooked up.With this unit you dont have to wait for hydro approval or anything because its independant.
The reason i think the alternator gets spun so high has to do with frequency. the guy used the largest car alternator from an old Chrysler 12volt of about late 60s to 70s origin.I think it was the 120amp unit for the big block air conditioned models.It could handle the abuse better than the GM or Ford units.I have 120 amp 240 unit from a military Land Rover Radio truck I was hoping to use.These were virtually indestructable under normal use and the main unit cost is very expensive but i got a few from the salvage yard and they use a stronger easy to replace bearing.The cooling was a Honda rad and fan run off a seperate battery.The main furnace was built using copper piping wound coils with fiberglass between coils and covered in fireproof clay.Inside the copper pipe antifreeze was run to the Honda stuff The copper also conducted the current and had a group of capacitors in parralel for fine tuning.it was really simple in design and pretty ingenius for the use of whats readily available on the cheap.But like I said something is missing or overlooked to make it work properly.This unit is suppose to melt Pt and Rh when working right.If you look on utube there are units u can build using circuits and such but dont get as hot and have the circuits as thier weakness for simple diagnosis in case of break down.This is simpler and u dont have to be electronic genius to build and operate it once the bugs are figure out by an electronic background person now as to whats missing or overlooked. Im sure if i drop everything i could figure it out but it would take me alot of time and maybe more money that i havent got but would be much easier for all if some one in the field can have a gander and say ahha!!! I see a problem.Know what I mean?
Herman

 

[Lou]

You can buy a furnace that'll melt Pt and Rh, not that the average guy really does this ( he might think so) for around $15K that'll do a kg.

For small quantities...talk to Marcin @ argenta induction. It's like 3K and maybe he'll finance?

He makes great furnaces for the money. I have one of the AF-05+ units and it's done tons of silver as shot. Love that little furnace. It's modular and compact and so much easier to deal with him than the usual suspects.

http://argenta.pl/AFI-02Pt,c,78,150.html


I have not used the Pt melting furnace, but if it works as well as the other bigger furnaces, then it's a DEAL!

 

[Platdigger]

Nice little furnace. Anyone know the working frequency? Couldn't find it on their web site. Or perhaps my polish is not so good.
Also on the front of their "Agatronic K" doesn't that look like a genset? I mean hey, it says it weighs 180kg.

 

[Herman]

exactly my point if you have the 15K for the Argenta furnace then you are past really the hobby stage and sure it would be nice to own as it is low maintenance but you need to get to that point somehow and even if he is willing to finance 3k on,it might as well be 15k I have right now about $3 in the bank,and like the true feast and famine prospector I dont know when or where my next buck is coming from.I have food for about 2 weeks and gas the same and diesel.Thats it. so for those of u that this is a fun thing for,u r living in luxury compared to me being in survival mode.So i usually have several projects on the go and sooner or later one or all has to work for me to survive.So i work with what I have and have to be very creative in the process.My total cost so far on the alternator set up is about $200 and i figure another $100 should get it going at the most.I got the gas motor for free.The biggest cost normally.
Herman

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Herman, what are you trying to melt, how much, and why.

You mentioned in your first post that the guy you were working with couldn't get the thing to melt platinum as that was what he built it for. Are you trying to melt platinum too, or are you trying to melt gold,silver, or something else? Is your material a natural material like placer gold (you mentioned being a feast and famine prospector), or a powder after refining? Melting powders in an induction furnace requires a different setup than melting chunks of metal.

Are you trying to melt grams, ounces, or kilograms at a time?

Why are you melting the material? Is it so it can be sold as a button or ingot?

The reason for my questions is that nearly every member melts small amounts of gold and silver with a torch and melting dish which are much less expensive than what you still expect to spend. If we know exactly what you're dealing with, maybe we can give you better advice.

Last, please do not use text lingo in your posts. Our members come from around the world and many have to use translating software. Statements like "so for those of u that this is a fun thing for,u r living in luxury" do not translate well, so using text lingo is against forum rules.

Dave

 

[Herman]

Forgot about the translation factor. My apologies.
The reason I am interested in building this is because of cost and it would be a good research device for different procedures for extraction. There seems to be other methods rather than fire assaying for testing or getting the metal out for a reading but for some reason not much is being done to explore those avenues
other than what's being kept quiet through private research or corporations. They usually have huge budgets to work with but the lone operator is usually very limited on what he or she can do because of financial restrictions .I feel that this science has a long way to go still for exploration,simplicity,eco-friendliness and more.Lets face it,we are still using stuff and procedures that date back to the Roman days.
I have some reports I cant disclose that come from the Colorado school of mines and what they have been experimenting with and you'd be surprised what works and how simple.Some of this is being done on equipment the average person cant afford but if something can be made from resourcefulness then I say be all means proceed with caution but the results could be well worth it.At the moment have some powders to try to melt.I've been told to use hydrogen or CO2 induction depending on the PGM to extract.To use a torch under hydrogen induction would be a bit on the dangerous side.If the schematic could be figured out to make this thing work then I believe with proper precautions this would be a safe avenue to follow using the furnace.Im working with micron PGMs in black sands and some pyrite ores.
Herman