paveprince
Member
i found ferrous sulfate at the vitamin store is this the same stuff you use to re fine gold. if so how do you use it .i think i comes in pill form.help
ferrous sulfate
- Thread starter paveprince
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There's no need to buy pills when you can buy a fairly large bag of ferrous sulfate from a good garden supply store. What you'd pay for an ounce of pills would likely buy a couple pounds of the material, and you'd have to process the pills in order to make them work properly. Worst of all, pills likely have a filler material, so you'd be adding unwanted crap to your gold. Stick to the real product in this case-----use pills only if you can't find anything else to serve as a precipitant.
Harold
Harold
paveprince
Member
thanx harold . that sounds reasonable . which product specifically has sodium nitrate. when i went to lowes and home depot i couldnt find any thing with sodium nitrate on the labels .i think im confused.
jimdoc
Well-known member
Here is a link to where I bought nitrate of soda,
(sodium nitrate). I couldn't find it locally.
http://www.maconfeedandseed.com/product_info.php/products_id/103
As for ferrous sulfate, I haven't looked for any locally. I have
some I got on Ebay, but I am going to try to find local sources.
Jim
(sodium nitrate). I couldn't find it locally.
http://www.maconfeedandseed.com/product_info.php/products_id/103
As for ferrous sulfate, I haven't looked for any locally. I have
some I got on Ebay, but I am going to try to find local sources.
Jim
paveprince
Member
hey jim thanx for the info . i appreciate the help and look forword to your results
austexjwlry
Well-known member
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- Jun 5, 2007
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- 116
Jimdoc,
Ferrous sulfate. The Chemistry Store.com has a 9lb pail for $13.32 ($1.48 a lb).
Wayne
Ferrous sulfate. The Chemistry Store.com has a 9lb pail for $13.32 ($1.48 a lb).
Wayne
prakash2016
Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2015
- Messages
- 8
Dear Harold,
HI this is Prakash v pai from India...
If you are refining gold from manufacturing benches or from other source... I would suggest that you use HYDRAZINE HYDRATE for cementing the Gold. Ferrous sulphate is a salt of IRON & you cannot come to conclusion as how much FESO4 should be used to precipitate the gold .. & in the process you end up adding more than required precipitator which in return precipitates other metals along with your gold.
After dissolving Gold completely in Aqua Regia solution, let it cool for some time. In the mean while add UREA in 1 liter water separately, till it dissolves & Add it slowly to the Gold Chlorate solution slowly.
You will actually see the solution fizzing with a yellow color & then settling down. Do it slowly till it stops fizzing. (Mind you, do this in a big container to protect the solution from overflowing out of container.)
This process is done to remove all the Nitric Acid content from the Chlorate solution. If there is any NItric content in your solution, your gold will not get precipitated completely.
Next mix approximately 10 ml of HCL( Hydrochloric Acid)in Water to dilute & add it to 50-100 ml of Hydrazine Hydrate directly. ( remember do not add HCL directly without diluting to H Hydrate as it can explode).
Pour this mixture in little quantities to precipitate Gold from your Gold Chlorate solution. Initially you will get a bluish black coloration when the gold is present inside. A brown precipitate will flow on the top of your solution which is gold. Go on adding little quantities till you get a white color on the surface .. when you get white color, it means that the precipitation of gold has come to an end.
Leave it overnight & wash it thoroughly with water & give a final wash with 10% Nitric OR 10% HCL to remove any traces of silver or any other unwanted metal....
Dry this precipitate & add a pinch of Boric Acid Powder before you melt to get Pure gold.
Do be very very careful & take all the precautions while handling HH & other acids... all the best.
regards,
Prakash V Pai
HI this is Prakash v pai from India...
If you are refining gold from manufacturing benches or from other source... I would suggest that you use HYDRAZINE HYDRATE for cementing the Gold. Ferrous sulphate is a salt of IRON & you cannot come to conclusion as how much FESO4 should be used to precipitate the gold .. & in the process you end up adding more than required precipitator which in return precipitates other metals along with your gold.
After dissolving Gold completely in Aqua Regia solution, let it cool for some time. In the mean while add UREA in 1 liter water separately, till it dissolves & Add it slowly to the Gold Chlorate solution slowly.
You will actually see the solution fizzing with a yellow color & then settling down. Do it slowly till it stops fizzing. (Mind you, do this in a big container to protect the solution from overflowing out of container.)
This process is done to remove all the Nitric Acid content from the Chlorate solution. If there is any NItric content in your solution, your gold will not get precipitated completely.
Next mix approximately 10 ml of HCL( Hydrochloric Acid)in Water to dilute & add it to 50-100 ml of Hydrazine Hydrate directly. ( remember do not add HCL directly without diluting to H Hydrate as it can explode).
Pour this mixture in little quantities to precipitate Gold from your Gold Chlorate solution. Initially you will get a bluish black coloration when the gold is present inside. A brown precipitate will flow on the top of your solution which is gold. Go on adding little quantities till you get a white color on the surface .. when you get white color, it means that the precipitation of gold has come to an end.
Leave it overnight & wash it thoroughly with water & give a final wash with 10% Nitric OR 10% HCL to remove any traces of silver or any other unwanted metal....
Dry this precipitate & add a pinch of Boric Acid Powder before you melt to get Pure gold.
Do be very very careful & take all the precautions while handling HH & other acids... all the best.
regards,
Prakash V Pai
solar_plasma
Well-known member
:lol: Thanks for a good laugh in the morning hour.
If no one else does, I will comment this later, I have to get ready for work.
If no one else does, I will comment this later, I have to get ready for work.
Be my guest... We all know that Harold needs to learn how to refine gold properly. :lol:
Göran
Göran
jason_recliner
Well-known member
Prakash,
Welcome to the forum. What these fine gentlemen are eluding to is that there is probably very little you can teach our illustrious leader about refining.
I don't know much about hydrazine, but I know it can be unstable. That said, many chemicals we work with can be dangerous if not handled correctly. I read your procedure with interest, and despite not understanding the process behind most of it, I believe it has value. There is usually more than one way to skin a cat. I am not a chemist, nor could I so much as bluff my way through playing one on TV. But I do have a couple of comments about your procedure, mostly learned here.
- If you read the forum a while you will find three things about excess nitric acid:
1: Urea is substandard compared to using Sulfamic Acid.
2: It's better to add nitric slowly so you don't put in too much in the first place.
3: Spare gold will use up the excess nitric, if needed. We call it "Harold's Button".
Personally, I have never handled pure nitric. I have to work with Nitrate salts. And with no spare gold, #2 is the way for me.
- Chlorate and Chloride solution are not the same thing.
- Brown gold powder will not normally float on top. It's about 19 times heavier than water.
- Not even touching on incineration before switching Nitric / HCl.
- You specify some fixedamounts of chemicals to add. Yet unless I am completely unobservant, there is no mention of the amount of solution, or gold, with which you are working. Ratio is "kind of important".
- [Edit for one more:] I'm sure most people here would prefer to work with methods that are NOT likely to cause explosions should they mess up a bit.
You seem like you have some experience. Do stick around here. I think we can all learn from each other. I look forward to seeing more of your posts in future.
Welcome to the forum. What these fine gentlemen are eluding to is that there is probably very little you can teach our illustrious leader about refining.
I don't know much about hydrazine, but I know it can be unstable. That said, many chemicals we work with can be dangerous if not handled correctly. I read your procedure with interest, and despite not understanding the process behind most of it, I believe it has value. There is usually more than one way to skin a cat. I am not a chemist, nor could I so much as bluff my way through playing one on TV. But I do have a couple of comments about your procedure, mostly learned here.
- If you read the forum a while you will find three things about excess nitric acid:
1: Urea is substandard compared to using Sulfamic Acid.
2: It's better to add nitric slowly so you don't put in too much in the first place.
3: Spare gold will use up the excess nitric, if needed. We call it "Harold's Button".
Personally, I have never handled pure nitric. I have to work with Nitrate salts. And with no spare gold, #2 is the way for me.
- Chlorate and Chloride solution are not the same thing.
- Brown gold powder will not normally float on top. It's about 19 times heavier than water.
- Not even touching on incineration before switching Nitric / HCl.
- You specify some fixedamounts of chemicals to add. Yet unless I am completely unobservant, there is no mention of the amount of solution, or gold, with which you are working. Ratio is "kind of important".
- [Edit for one more:] I'm sure most people here would prefer to work with methods that are NOT likely to cause explosions should they mess up a bit.
You seem like you have some experience. Do stick around here. I think we can all learn from each other. I look forward to seeing more of your posts in future.
solar_plasma
Well-known member
Further:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2503
is all I have to know about hydrazine, it is likely to precipitate almost everything, it can easily become unstable and it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine
quite toxic. Why in the world should I ever use something fuming, that gives liver tumors and 100 other serious diseases I never heard of before, while I have a tool box full of much less dangerous and more selective precipitants?
Hydrazine has been discussed a lot of times and reading those threads you will find a consensus, that says, it has no place in hobby and small refining.
For the completeness and in order to give you a few terms you can search the forum for: FeSO4 is often mentioned in the context of precipitating from a dirty solution. In a dirty solution iron is most likely present anyways. Most commonly used in this forum is SMB or comparable sulfites as a substitute for using SO2 directly. For the second refining you can use oxalic acid, which is mentioned to be more selectively for gold against PGMs, but proper procedures will be equally effective.
If you get interested and will dive into this ocean of valid information this forum actually is - welcome!
http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2503
is all I have to know about hydrazine, it is likely to precipitate almost everything, it can easily become unstable and it is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine
quite toxic. Why in the world should I ever use something fuming, that gives liver tumors and 100 other serious diseases I never heard of before, while I have a tool box full of much less dangerous and more selective precipitants?
Hydrazine has been discussed a lot of times and reading those threads you will find a consensus, that says, it has no place in hobby and small refining.
For the completeness and in order to give you a few terms you can search the forum for: FeSO4 is often mentioned in the context of precipitating from a dirty solution. In a dirty solution iron is most likely present anyways. Most commonly used in this forum is SMB or comparable sulfites as a substitute for using SO2 directly. For the second refining you can use oxalic acid, which is mentioned to be more selectively for gold against PGMs, but proper procedures will be equally effective.
If you get interested and will dive into this ocean of valid information this forum actually is - welcome!
jimdoc
Well-known member
Maybe some posts should get a red flag on them to warn the information is wrong or just too dangerous.
jimdoc said:
Ageed.
prakash2016
Member
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2015
- Messages
- 8
Dear All,
Sorry for the belated reply.... Well in the above discussion i did not mean to teach anybody anything, but was generally sharing information.
I am myself doing hold refining at my company. Earlier I used FESo4 for precipitation, It definitely does a good job but at times gives hard spot in casting due to content of Ferrous. But with HYDRAZINE HYDRATE precipitation is faster & quicker...
Just sharing .. sorry guys if i have stepped over... apologize for the same..
Warm Regards,
Prakash V Pai
INDIA
Sorry for the belated reply.... Well in the above discussion i did not mean to teach anybody anything, but was generally sharing information.
I am myself doing hold refining at my company. Earlier I used FESo4 for precipitation, It definitely does a good job but at times gives hard spot in casting due to content of Ferrous. But with HYDRAZINE HYDRATE precipitation is faster & quicker...
Just sharing .. sorry guys if i have stepped over... apologize for the same..
Warm Regards,
Prakash V Pai
INDIA
Prakash if you use ferrous it’s simple to remove any excess. Once you have precipitated your gold powder decant the solution into your stock pot and add water and place beaker back on heat, boil for 10 minutes with a watchglass over the beaker and then decant again add to stock pot, add Hcl to cover well and put back onto heat again use a watch glass and boil vigorously for 15 minutes , decant and save for next refining job and add more Hcl back on to boil and do this until the acid stays clear of color, give the powder several more water boils and changes, this should bring your gold up to at least 99.9% .
