fingers and fingers from ram sticks

[arthur kierski]

i put some fingers and gold plated ram sticks into a ssn leach solution----i forgot this test and went to do other things------the next day when i looked at the test, i noticed that all the fingers were deplated and the ssn solution became black green color----i diluted this solution(a small quantity) until it became green again and tested with stanous----the result was barren(no gold)----i supposed that the ssn leach would dissolve the gold (like ar) but it did not----all the gold flakes were on the botton of my vessel ---- -some in the form of gold flakes,some as a black powder-------
in resume----i quickly deplated gold fingers(less then 24hours)----it takes much more time with ap----it does not spend nitric like when one does a 50% nitric deplation----
i do not know (i did not theorise) what and why it worked----but it worked----
i used around 200grams of fingers and 350grams of rams sticks without the chips----
i think that i found an easy way to deplate many thing----monday i will do this experiment with barren cellphone boards---gold pins and any other material with plated gold in it
i hope this helps other members,and would like some coments and any possible feedback on what happened----regards to all
Arthur

 

[joem]

Hi Arthur
What is the SSN leach solution?

 

[arthur kierski]

my solution is 7,6liters of water , saturated with 2,8kilos of rock salt and 1lt of nitric-----
from this solution i take as an example 1lt and cover the material that i want to leach--- i think that may have small variations of this formulation----i think some more experienced members can give more details----
Arthur

 

[Palladium]

I would try a controlled experiment to test the theory. Try using the recipe you have posted above and see how much copper the solution will hold until it’s saturated and won’t hold anymore by copper weight. Then take the same amount of nitric you used for the test recipe ( or do the math theoretically) and see how much copper it will hold by weight. Then compare the results and see how much difference there is between the two test to see if the salt is helping and if it is just how much is it helping.

 

[AlZabrisky]

Usually a 7:1 mix of saturated NaCl solution and 70% Nitric acid is effectively optimal on higher grades of electronic scrap. Emissions are lower than AR and this mix is much more corrosive.
This will dissolve your gold as effectively as AR, however, at a slower rate of dissolution.

Dr. AlZabrisky.

 

[butcher]

I think that the results would be different for almost every batch made.

The saturated salt and nitric acid (SSN leach), the salt NaCl mixed with the nitric acid, water percentage, and amount of base metals present, temperature, time of reaction, how much of each ingredient would be different for almost every batch made, in my thinking, also the results for each batch could also be different. How much of each ingredient may make a big difference in whether you have brown gold powders, gold in solution, base metals completely dissolved, no gold in solution, and so on, (not thinking of the tin in this mix).


NaCl + HNO3 --> HCl + NaNO3 --> poor mans Aqua Regia

If working with this method, a person would have to have a fair understanding of how to deal with the different reactions or results he would encounter, have a good understanding of where all his gold could be, and the forms it may be in.

Testing of solution's would be a must, (and if tin was involved colloidal gold in solution would not show up as positive in the stannous chloride test), so this must also be considered), cementing on copper may be needed at times, and other times there may be un-dissolved base metals as solids.

If you have any electronic parts in this leach that can have base metals under layers, inside, like circuit boards, with copper traces under solder mask, copper sandwiched in between circuit board, or copper or other base metals inside a chip where acid can reach but not finish dissolving base metals, you would could very well also have gold cementing out there trapped inside or under these layers, so this also should be considered, these remaining materials, or parts my have to be saved for treatment later (like we may save filter papers to get trapped values later).

If much solder was involved, not only could there be colloidal gold in solution (from tin), but also values in with the insoluble lead chloride salts, and an understanding of how to deal with these would also be necessary.

I see many places for loss of values, and much work chasing these values.

 

[arthur kierski]

Butcher and Palladium:your arguments are very consistent,solid, and i respect them very much----- but what i described happened ----i did not invent it----the only thing that i did not do, was going after a hypothetical colloidal gold that obviously might exist in the barren solution tested with stanous chloride----this liquid will be transformed in powder with active carbon and then i will go after possible coloidal gold----- as i said in the thread , i suposed that the ssn would dissolve the gold----i wrote the thread because what happened was the contrary , the gold became powder and specks and theoretically was not dissolved by the ssn-----
i made a parallel with acid peroxide method:in the ap process one uses hcl and 3%h2o2----it forms gold specks(foils)-----if one uses hcl and 30% h2o2 the gold dissolves-----in this case lets call,- ssn method----the nitric acid is also diluted(1liter in 8liters)-------in this case,the nitric substitute the diluted peroxide----and the brine is the substituted hcl-----in my thoughts the 2methods are very similar---the diference is that the ssn might be quicker---if no colloidal gold is formed

by the way i did fingers and underneath the gold plating the metals had a silver collor (sn,ni plating )---apparently these metals did not dissolve in the ssn
regards
Arthur

 

[butcher]

arthur kierski,
I was just trying to state some things I thought about it and its nature, and how I felt it would react, I was not trying to comment on how well it would work, or not work as a recovery method. But was saying that if someone used the method they would have to know how to deal with the variables and possible problems encountered.

Arthur, I feel you misunderstood my meaning.

 

[butcher]

Oops I double posted when trying to edit my bad spelling.
Sorry. I do not know how to delete this.

 

[arthur kierski]

Butcher,i understod perfectly what you meant and i am grateful for your alerts----if extracting and refining pms was an easy thing,we would not need a forum---always a diferent thing happens--never an extraction is equal---as you said:concentration ,temperature,duration of an extraction------if things were equal,there was no need for research(experiments)----as i said ,i will make a try with plated gold things like ceellphone boards,pins, and thin lcd television plated boards --then we will have a more elaborated idea------by the way ,when i put the fingers in ssn,after 2hours i made a test with stanous and it gave gold---i forgot about it and the next day when i saw the barren fingers and tested the solution it gave not gold---the gold was in the botton of the vessel
regards and thanks for your great insights(knowledge)

Arthur

 

[Smack]

Oops I double posted when trying to edit my bad spelling.
Sorry. I do not know how to delete this.

There should be a square box above the Subject box at the top that says delete post when you click edit post.

 

[jimdoc]

Oops I double posted when trying to edit my bad spelling.
Sorry. I do not know how to delete this.

There should be a square box above the Subject box at the top that says delete post when you click edit post.

There is a box with an X in it on all your last posts, as long as nobody has added a post after yours.
It will be next to the report this post box. It is very easy to erase your own double post if you do it right away.

Jim

Butcher,
You should see the X on this post;
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=11827&start=60#p126021

 

[arthur kierski]

i continued the experiement today,and no gold(coloidal) was found in the filtrated liquid------the only gold present was the one retained in the filter paper----now i will do the experiment with pins and other plated material
regards,
Arthur

 

[eeTHr]

It sounds like the same thing you can do with AR, if it is short of nitric.

First some of the gold dissolves, exposing more of the base metals.

Then when more base metals are exposed, they will then dissolve ahead of the remaining gold, and this releases some foils, and precipitates any gold in solution as dark powder. When the base metals have consumed all the nitric, you have gold foils and powder remaining, and some undissolved base metals. If you add a little more nitric, the remaining base metals and gold will dissolve, too.

AP can do this, also, if there is too much peroxide. It could be done with HCl/CL, too.

Or, I guess your SSN could be running short of Cl, leaving just nitric to keep the base metals dissolved, and leaving the gold. It seems that if no solid base metals are remaining, then this would be more likely than depleating the nitric at exactly the point when all the base metals are dissolved.

...Just a guess.

 

[arthur kierski]

eethr,i did not say that one could not do the process with ap,hcl-cl or ar----what i said is that the ssn process which i did is quicker to obtain the gold foils-----butchers concern is that coloidal gold undetected by test(stanous) could be formed-----In this case ,no coloidal gold was formed----i do not know yet if the process is full proof--as i said ,i must do the process with pins and othe r plated materials to see if works as it did with the fingers.------
regards
Arthur