First gold blank

[elfixx]

Where did you get the dies made? and what was the cost?

 

[lazersteve]

Awesome die! Please do tell us where you got it!

Steve

 

[Noxx]

C'mon guys, you can't force me to disclose a business secret

 

[elfixx]

Business secret? lol :lol:

 

[elfixx]

Isn't the purpose of this forum to share information?

 

[glorycloud]

There are some things that are worth keeping to oneself. If Noxx chooses
to keep to himself his source for what he diligently pursued and found, then
more power to him!

Find it for yourself and be proud of doing it! Don't look for a handout off someone
else's hard work and inspiration.

Yes, the purpose of this forum IS to share information. But I add, not when it
could impact your livelyhood. You have been posting here long enough to know who Noxx
is and that he is more than a hobbyist diddling around with escrap. He has branded
a business and he put forth the effort to go first class and develop a die with his
company name on it. Perhaps, he prefers that "value add" to differentiate his
company from the rest of the "gee I have a refined gold button to sell" crowd.

There, I said it. Let's encourage each other, not demand from each other. 8)

 

[Gold]

http://www.info.infinitystamps.com/

 

[goldsilverpro]

I estimate that I have only shared about 40% of what I know with this forum. Many things just haven't come up yet, but I do have a short list of topics that I'll never divulge to the public. They are mainly specific, obscure, profitable processes that I have alone developed and made good money on. They are still viable and are for sale. One process is available for $1 million.

Before this forum, almost everything we now discuss openly existed only as trade secrets. As far as I'm concerned, any thing you receive is a gift. You people are blessed. Charity is charity and business is business.

 

[oldtimmer]

Going along with what GSP has said, in the mid 80's I had access to several hundred pounds of scrap gold plated PC boards per month. The company that I worked for, just scrapped them out (trash can). I spent several weeks going to the library in an effort to find anything I could on how to porcess the boards to recover the gold. I do not even remember finding any of the books that are so easily recommended and can be down loaded. Some information was to disolve in AR, but not enough an how to get it back out. Found one chemistry book on how to do anaylsis using titration, but that would not work for large volumes. There were a few books on how the old miners did their analysis, part of which I had learned from my dad, but had never done it. Hear again good for a small scale, but not large scale.

My extent back then for several years was to higrade the boards that had the most plating as well as the fingers. My extent was to use Nitric acid to remove the copper base metal and leave the gold fingers. I would then melt these fingers and take them to a local group that did some refining. I then just sold the gold buttons to them and let them do the processing. Even though I got to know them very well, I could not get them to let me in on any of the information on how I could recover the gold.

Towards the end, kept around 10 oz of the gold buttons that I had managed to salvage. I ended up selling them in the mid 90's for money to take the wife on a nice vacation.

I believe that if I would have had the information that is here on this forum, I may have done line Harold and a few others and started a small local refining business just on the scrap PC cards that the company was thtowing out in the trash.

 

[nickvc]

Looks really nice Noxx.

I just purchased a rolling mill hoping it would allow me to make smooth sheets that could be punched into discs then laser etched as 'coins'.

The mill has a very narrow opening and therefore doesn't lend itself readily to working directly from gold buttons fresh out of the furnace. They are way too thick which requires the button to be hammered thin enough to make it into the mill opening.

Could you pour your molten fine into a wire mould they are available here in the jewellery suppply shops or if you want make your own from a graphite block that might help you to start the rolling process.

 

[Harold_V]

The mill has a very narrow opening and therefore doesn't lend itself readily to working directly from gold buttons fresh out of the furnace. They are way too thick which requires the button to be hammered thin enough to make it into the mill opening.

Could you pour your molten fine into a wire mould they are available here in the jewellery suppply shops or if you want make your own from a graphite block that might help you to start the rolling process.

That isn't the correct approach. There are molds made for the purpose. They are end poured, yielding a wide and thin ingot, which enters the rolls without effort. If you start with a wire form, you end up with a narrow, long strip of metal that won't serve the intended purpose. When rolling, very little is extruded to the sides. Material gets longer as it gets thinner, not wider. The only way you can get it wider is to roll it at a 90° angle from the previous pass.

Harold

edit: corrected spelling

 

[nickvc]

That isn't the correct approach. There are molds made for the purpose. They are end poured, yielding a wide and thin ingot, which enters the rolls without effort. If you start with a wire form, you end up with a narrow, long strip of metal that won't serve the intended purpose. When rolling, very little is extruded to the sides. Material gets longer as it gets thinner, not wider. The only way you can get it wider is to roll it at a 90° angle from the previous pass.

thanks harold you got my basic idea and turned it into the correct method. The alternative is dependant on the amount of gold you wish to bar, many of the 1oz + bars are cast into a mould slightly over weight and then trimmed back to the correct weight and stamped with a hand punch, cheap but only worth the effort if you have reasonable quantities..For the pleasure of having your own stamped bars the cost i suppose is secondary even if its not a good delivery guarenteed bar most people in this business know good fine gold when they see it..

 

[Lou]

Before this forum, almost everything we now discuss openly existed only as trade secrets. As far as I'm concerned, any thing you receive is a gift. You people are blessed. Charity is charity and business is business.

Truer words...

 

[Noxx]

Hey guys!

Here are two pics of the first bar I tried to make. I obviously need more tonnage in order to fill the die properly.

I will keep you posted.

 

[Oz]

That’s looking good Noxx, you are getting there! How many tons pressure was applied with your press? Would it be possible to add a 2:1 mechanical advantage into your press to get you the rest of the way there?

 

[Noxx]

It's a 12 ton press, like the one pictured at the first page.

It's a good question but I don't think this would be possible. Anyway, the press isn't made to handle 24 ton. Just imagine what would happen if this thing would break apart

 

[Oz]

I just looked at your press, and yes it would be hard. A 2:1 fixture within the press would still only see 12 tons but the loading on your press would be offset and may damage it.

Building a steel tube frame for a 12 ton hydraulic jack that uses a 2:1 or greater lever may be a simple solution though since you need little stroke at the dies. Surplus jacks are cheap.

 

[Rhodium]

http://www.gregsmithequipment.com/30-Ton-Hydraulic-Shop-Press-p/iit36950.htm

 

[Harold_V]

Noxx,
That's amazingly good, considering the low pressure at your disposal.
Can I assume it is not filling the die completely? Hard to tell from my end, but surface finish certainly looks good.

Way to go, Jean. My hat's off to you!
Harold

 

[Anonymous]

Noxx, For a full fill on this ingot, you will need about 30 to 40 tons. This will sharpen and deepen the image as well as fill out the missing material at the edge of the planchet if it's not too pronounced. I suggest getting the book NUMISMATIC FORGERY by Charles M. Larson which is sold on Amazon for under $20. This book shows how to construct many things for making small runs of coins including a gravity hammer capable of striking up to both sides of a silver dollar in one drop. You won't be sorry you bought the book if you ever want to produce your own coins or ingots.