Foils dissapeared and not coming back.

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watcher6880

watcher6880

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2012
Messages
102
Location
Quapaw, Oklahoma
First off, I have a post under the title "Game fingers" so you may get up to date with what I am working with. Well I am doing the hcl-h202 method dissolved with clorox. Problem was that my foils didn't come completely off so I added more peroxide and they dissapeared over the next couple days. I tried adding copper back to the solution and the black powder didn't show... :cry: so I then thought maybe it was still in the solution (this solution had already been filtered several times, and filters kept)... so added the distilled water and smb, now it is brown (solution). Wondering how long it will take for gold to settle?
 
Warming the solution will help the gold powder to settle, DO NOT allow it to boil as that will cause loss of values as the bubbles burst and eject solution and gold powder out of your vessel.
 
Heat really does help. After everything looks settled down, I usually stick the remaining solution in a mason jar with cap for a couple of days. Sometimes the small traces will be left after that. I think some even throw a piece of copper in with that.
-Andrew
 
Hello Watcher , how are tricks?
I hope your well!
watcher6880 said:
First off, I have a post under the title "Game fingers" so you may get up to date with what I am working with. Well I am doing the hcl-h202 method dissolved with clorox. Problem was that my foils didn't come completely off so I added more peroxide and they dissapeared over the next couple days.
Click to expand...
This statement confuses me.
On one hand , you say that you are using the AP (acid/peroxide) method.
This is a recovery procedure.
Then you mention dissolution with clorox.
This is a refining procedure.
After mentioning Clorox , and without further refference , you say that your "foils didn't come completely off so (you) added more peroxide and they dissapeared over the next couple days".
I would assume that this comment still reffers to the AP process , where you are attempting to recover gold foils from your game card fingers.
If you had applied some patience to the process and followed accepted procedure , there shouldn't have been a need for extra additions of H202.
As you will know from your studies here on the forum , this is an invitation for the dissolution of gold.
If you have any of these left , add some more trimmed fingers to your vessel. The extra copper present within these should dissolve into your AP solution and drop (precipitate) any dissolved gold.
Depending on the amount of gold dissolved , you may need to take another route.
Maybe I'm reading your post wrong , if I am I whole heartedly apolagise.
All the best with it , and kind regards ,
Chris :mrgreen:
 
jimdoc said:
watcher6880 said:
First off, I have a post under the title "Game fingers" so you may get up to date with what I am working with.
Click to expand...

Why start another thread?

Jim
Click to expand...

Because in the other thread I was displaying my accomplishment, I needed help on the subject so I asked a question as a whole new subject pertaining to the same project, just a different topic. I apolagize if I have done something out of order, just trying to follow forum rules.
 
kuma said:
Hello Watcher , how are tricks?
I hope your well!
watcher6880 said:
First off, I have a post under the title "Game fingers" so you may get up to date with what I am working with. Well I am doing the hcl-h202 method dissolved with clorox. Problem was that my foils didn't come completely off so I added more peroxide and they dissapeared over the next couple days.
Click to expand...
This statement confuses me.
On one hand , you say that you are using the AP (acid/peroxide) method.
This is a recovery procedure.
Then you mention dissolution with clorox.
This is a refining procedure.
After mentioning Clorox , and without further refference , you say that your "foils didn't come completely off so (you) added more peroxide and they dissapeared over the next couple days".
I would assume that this comment still reffers to the AP process , where you are attempting to recover gold foils from your game card fingers.
Click to expand...

This happened before I added the clorox. I assumed (maybe this was my mistake) that since it had already dissolved that there was still possibly small traces of gold flake so I went ahead with the clorox method (not wanting to miss any gold during the filtering process to get junk out, because I realized there would be the hassle of picking the microscopic junk out of the filter that still contains gold). So like you said I may have extended my patience :| when I should have waited. The reason I added more h202 was because of a post I searched for on the forum that stated that if the solution turned dark in nature to add more h202. Then when it started dissolving (before the clorox got added) I realized I added too much. Well as I said, I went ahead with the clorox (refining). The other night I came across a post (again from the search feature) about adding copper to the solution and black powder would drop out. Yesterday morning I cut a small 1 inch by 4 inch strip of copper from copper sheeting and dropped it in. last night I came to and it had not changed from the green color so I figured (again possibly another blunder :cry: ) I might still be able to save it by completing the process of dropping the gold so I added a little over 2 times as much distilled water and a cup of SMB ( I stirred it.) covered and let it set overnight, came to it this afternoon and it was a murky brown but no mud settling at the bottom.
 
yes, you should learn patience. you have overlapping processes on the same material. let me see if i can straighten this out. after you added too much H2O2 and the foils dissolved you added more copper to cement the gold. when that didn't happen fast enough, you added Cl to the green solution to insure all the foils was dissolved and then added SMB to precipitate any gold left in solution?

pick a process and stick with it. learn one process at a time and master it before moving to another. you learn from mistakes, so now you know not to add too much H2O2 to an AP process.

when cementing values, it is normally a slow process at room temperature, you could have sped the process up by heating the solution.

adding Cl to a solution that has already gone south (has been messed up, beyond the normal scope of the process) does not help.

adding SMB to a contaminated solution causes gold to settle very slowly.

you didnt mention testing with stannous to make sure you had gold in solution after your attempt to cement the gold out of solution, how do you know there was gold left to precipitate?
 
Geo said:
yes, you should learn patience. you have overlapping processes on the same material. let me see if i can straighten this out. after you added too much H2O2 and the foils dissolved you added more copper to cement the gold. when that didn't happen fast enough, you added Cl to the green solution to insure all the foils was dissolved and then added SMB to precipitate any gold left in solution?
Click to expand...

No, I added the copper after the cl, and then added the SMB (only after dilluting with distilled water). I do admit that I made mistakes and I can only learn from them. And thank you about the heat reccomendation. If I can recover (that is a big IF) the gold with the SMB then I will run it through the refining process again to rid it of contaminants. Good thing this was a test batch. I'm not looking to get over a gram because I only had about 23 finger boards (sega game cartridges and nintendo game cartridges).
 
You may need to add a little acid (not much), so the copper can cement the gold, keep testing with stannous to see progress, brush off any powders that stick to the copper bar and rinse it off, let this settle with other powders, wash the powders, I would just save them till you collect more to refine.

And may I suggest some more time with a good book?
 
Hokes....yes Butcher. On my second reading now. :oops: A lot to take in. It is the distinguishing of various methods that distracts me. As Geo said i need to stick to one method.
 
It takes some time to begin to get an understanding of processes, Laser Steve and his web site will be a big help when working with the methods your trying, his free videos will also be a big help, I am not sure if one of his more in-depth videos you can purchase cover acid peroxide, but the videos, of processes I have purchased from him were very well done and worth every penny.

Maybe concentrate studying one portion of the process at a time, learning it well, and work on it until you master it, before moving your focus onto the next step, basically not trying to learn recovery of foils and refining as a whole process, just focus on recovery, build up a stock of recovered foils before learning the refining phase, also learn from Hokes, doing the getting acquainted experiments she teaches, also use this technique to do small experiments on the electronic scrap with the other processes you learn from the forum, do not worry at first about getting gold, focus on learning and experimenting, and understanding the reactions and processes, the gold will still be there and you may also accumulate more for when you do understand and begin to recover and refine it with your new understanding.
 
Hey everyone, I am happy to report that after following up with copper and heat (once again. well once again with the copper lol) a significant amount of black mud/powder has been forming at the bottom of the jar (using a 1000ml sized mason jar). And this is on low heat. Anyways what I didn't mention was that I had another batch going from the other half of the snipped fingerboards in a seperate jar (obviously to keep out contaminants) and during the pricipantant stage (with a piece of copper as well. I did NOT add SMB and water to this one, just heat) it also has started producing some black powder (smaller than the fingers of course). The reason I started process on this second batch was because of plating on the board itself under the solder mask (which was gold over copper). Again, I want to thank everyone who has lent me some advice in this post. I'm also thankful to have access to the knowledge bases of Lazersteve's pdf's and Hokes as well as the GRF tutorials. Sadly I still cannot access the free videos because it seems that Steve's uses a different video player and my player won't update or more like "down"date since I am using a 64bit system. Anyhow, I am planning on purchasing his dvds to hopefully rectify that problem.
 

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