Glassware

[Ian S]

Can you guys point me in the right direction on which glassware I need to buy? Lets say budget is open. I already bit the bullet and bought a chemker 300 vacuum (got a great deal on ebay) so now all I need is the fitting glassware to get started with AR and refining.
I run a small casting house and will be refining 18k scrap containing some palladium and also 950 Platinum containing some copper or cobalt. Will be only doing 1-3 oz of metal a week for now. Id like to order my glassware all at once so I'm trying to put together a complete shopping list.

All help is greatly appreciated

 

[FrugalRefiner]

My advice would be to hold off on buying anything until you've studied enough to know what you need. Once you understand the processes you'll use, you'll know what glassware you'll need. It's kind of like asking what plane you should buy before you've gotten your pilot's license.

I know that probably doesn't seem very helpful, but the more you learn, the more you'll understand what I'm trying to convey.

There are members who use anything from mason jars and coffee pots, to sealed reactors with condensers, and anything in between. Buying glassware right now may just lead to wasting money on things you don't need and may never use.

Dave

 

[Ian S]

My advice would be to hold off on buying anything until you've studied enough to know what you need. Once you understand the processes you'll use, you'll know what glassware you'll need. It's kind of like asking what plane you should buy before you've gotten your pilot's license.

I know that probably doesn't seem very helpful, but the more you learn, the more you'll understand what I'm trying to convey.

There are members who use anything from mason jars and coffee pots, to sealed reactors with condensers, and anything in between. Buying glassware right now may just lead to wasting money on things you don't need and may never use.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I get you, I just thought I need to get the basic glassware while im ordering from abroad, even if its just to start.

 

[4metals]

Will be only doing 1-3 oz of metal a week for now. Id like to order my glassware all at once so Im trying to put together a complete shopping list.

For these quantities you are talking about small, beaker sized lots. Keep in mind a liter of aqua regia can digest about 7.5 oz of metal. So a 2 liter beaker, with a safety factor of being half full, can easily handle 7 ounces of feedstock.

Once you learn the basics, and get all of your exhaust and waste in order you can easily scale up to meet your needs.

The Platinum will require a reflux type setup to get the heat you need to digest the Platinum in aqua regia. Are you also doin small lots of Platinum for starters?

 

[Ian S]

For these quantities you are talking about small, beaker sized lots. Keep in mind a liter of aqua regia can digest about 7.5 oz of metal. So a 2 liter beaker, with a safety factor of being half full, can easily handle 7 ounces of feedstock.

Once you learn the basics, and get all of your exhaust and waste in order you can easily scale up to meet your needs.

The Platinum will require a reflux type setup to get the heat you need to digest the Platinum in aqua regia. Are you also doin small lots of Platinum for starters?

Yes also small lots of Platinum. Max 5 oz at the beginning

 

[4metals]

The karat gold will be an easy start as small beakers and a buchner funnel for filtration will be what you need.

The Platinum requires a diluted Hydrochloric Acid as well as the nitric to allow the proper reflux and digestion. I take it you want to generate Platinum for re-use in your process?

There are small reactors available for this process but there are also considerations as far as the toxicity of handling Platinum salts. Look up platinosis to see what you are getting into. Morre on platinosis here

If you start with just the karat scrap to get the handling of the acids and filtration down you can, when you feel confident, move on to Platinum refining as well. I will look for a package reflux setup to do the Platinum digestions in, and post it here when I find it.

In the interim, look into what you need for exhaust hoods and fume scrubbing to do this in your workplace. All of that information is available here on the forum.

 

[Ian S]

I take it you want to generate Platinum for re-use in your process?

There are small reactors available for this process but there are also considerations as far as the toxicity of handling Platinum salts. Look up platinosis to see what you are getting into. Morre on platinosis here

If you start with just the karat scrap to get the handling of the acids and filtration down you can, when you feel confident, move on to Platinum refining as well. I will look for a package reflux setup to do the Platinum digestions in, and post it here when I find it.

Correct, Platinum would be for reuse. A small reactor sounds interesting. Thanks, I appreciate the help. Yes currently looking for a hood and exhaust.

 

[flamington12]

Yes also small lots of Platinum. Max 5 oz at the beginning

Small Beaker size the way to go - try to find something on Ebay - thats how I started out.

Hirschmann always gets the job done in my eyes.

 

[4metals]

This type of flat bottom reactor that can take a condenser will be good to get started with platinum. posted on Ebay 11/2024.

A good water cooled reflux condenser will allow a good hot boil for the Platinum with the acid azeotrope. The large neck will allow you to get out larger pieces that don't dissolve easily. And a flat bottom allows you to heat it on a hot plate.

 

[joshu705]

The karat gold will be an easy start as small beakers and a buchner funnel for filtration will be what you need.

The Platinum requires a diluted Hydrochloric Acid as well as the nitric to allow the proper reflux and digestion. I take it you want to generate Platinum for re-use in your process?

There are small reactors available for this process but there are also considerations as far as the toxicity of handling Platinum salts. Look up platinosis to see what you are getting into. Morre on platinosis here

If you start with just the karat scrap to get the handling of the acids and filtration down you can, when you feel confident, move on to Platinum refining as well. I will look for a package reflux setup to do the Platinum digestions in, and post it here when I find it.

In the interim, look into what you need for exhaust hoods and fume scrubbing to do this in your workplace. All of that information is available here on the forum.

I could use some pointers on the filtration lol I got me one of them vacuum bachman funnels but even with the filter paper that I bought to fit it I still find little pieces of gold swirling around that made it through the filter. The only luck I've had so far is putting a coffee filter on top of it. I got a 80 mm and 110 mm one

 

[4metals]

I assume you mean a Buchner funnel. I have used Buchner funnels successfully for years and they are quite effective. There are a few things you should be aware of when using the filter. The proper sized filter paper must lie flat on the bottom of the funnel, no creases to allow liquids under. And the filter paper must cover all of the holes and most of the flat border around the holes but not fold upwards. The hole pattern of the funnel stops about 1/2" short of the funnel wall all the way around. It is the seal between the paper and that flat area that determines if you catch everything you are trying to catch on the filter paper. Place the paper on the flat plate of the filter and use a squirt bottle to wet the filter paper before applying suction. When the paper is wet, turn on the suction and you will be able to see the paper seal to the plate.

It is possible to have such strong suction that you can suck the paper through a hole and have the paper fail. That is more prevalent in some of the less costly Buchners made these days that rarely happened with the original Coors funnels. Some of the funnels have larger holes in excess of 1/8" diameter and they are subject to the paper failing at the hole. There is a fix however which makes all Buchner funnels work faster and it also helps solve the tear through on funnels with larger holes. Get some fiberglass window screen fabric and cut it out into a circle that will just cover the hole pattern on the funnel but leave the porcelain flat section on the border for the paper to make a good seal. Make a few of these and re-use them many times because they do last a long time. The screening will do 2 things. One it will better support the paper if the holes are too large, and two even on a funnel with tiny holes it increases the filtration area. The way it increases the filtration area is it lifts the paper ever so slightly above the porcelain plate and allows the hole to suck over a wider area. This screen trick is especially useful for solutions that filter slowly and seem to drip all day. If you use the screen be careful when you place it on the filter that the edge seal between the paper and the porcelain is not effected by the screen being over the flat section. That can cause a leak. Easy to prevent if you know what to look for.

I think if you have the right size paper and it is set in the funnel properly you will have no problems. And the screen can help if the holes are large and the paper fails in a hole. I have literally filtered thousands of gallons of acid through Buchner funnels and can attest to the fact that they do work well.

 

[4metals]

I have also used very large Buchner funnels. Since you didn't specify a size I should tell you with large filters filtering a lot of solution you need to be careful not to pour onto the filter too quickly as it can dislodge the paper. One trick is to put a small dinner plate on the filter paper and pour onto the plate. That will absorb the impact of the liquid onto the paper which quickly overflows the plate and is sucked through the filter.

 

[joshu705]

I have also used very large Buchner funnels. Since you didn't specify a size I should tell you with large filters filtering a lot of solution you need to be careful not to pour onto the filter too quickly as it can dislodge the paper. One trick is to put a small dinner plate on the filter paper and pour onto the plate. That will absorb the impact of the liquid onto the paper which quickly overflows the plate and is sucked through the filter.

Thank you for taking the time to give a very detailed description. I was not turning the pump on before putting the material in. With the ideal in mind that it would burn the pump up but I guess it wouldn't matter since it's just sucking air and not working like per se a water pump that would burn up if it didn't have any floods going through it. When I said 80 mm and 110 mm I was referring to the filter paper sizes that was suggested to go in to the funnel. The outside of the big funnel says 120 mm and the inside diameter is 110. The material being 12K gold filled was what I was trying to filter through it the first time and was finding the little flakes getting through. But I have plenty plenty of more material I'm just doing small amounts learning. If you're the same 4metels that is on eBay I've got a little bit of material I bought from you that will eventually run through lol. Good day! Again I appreciate you taking the time to give a detailed description.

 

[4metals]

If you're the same 4metels that is on eBay I've got a little bit of material I bought from you that will eventually run through

I am not the same 4metals as is selling on e-bay. Although I have been asked that often here. I do hope, to protect my forum reputation, that they yield well.

 

[joshu705]

I am not the same 4metals as is selling on e-bay. Although I have been asked that often here. I do hope, to protect my forum reputation, that they yield well.

That would have been super cool if it was you. Just some ceramic CPUs. Small quantity. I've been buying a little bit of this and a little bit of that to see which material is my preferred material to work with. I'm sure everybody has a favor and a least favorite of stuff they like to work with.

 

[4metals]

I've been buying a little bit of this and a little bit of that to see which material is my preferred material to work with. I'm sure everybody has a favor and a least favorite of stuff they like to work with.

I am sure this is true. It would be interesting if you start a new thread where members can say what their favorite scrap type is, how they process it and maybe where they acquire it.

 

[4metals]

Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about Buchner funnels and I mentioned hole sizes on the filter plate. These two images may help explain the difference. The bottom photo almost always will tear the paper through when filtering unless you use a screen fabric under the paper. The top filter has much smaller holes and the paper is not inclined to tear. Given a choice I would choose the smaller holes in the plate.

 

[eaglekeeper]

I generally don't have large quantity of solutions, so I don't vacuum filter very much... plus I'm too lazy to set it up for small batches.

If you get the cheap Buchner funnels... every once in a while, you get what you pay for. I got one where the pore plate wasn't completely flat and another where there were shape edges around the pore holes. The first was hard to acquire a good seal and the last kept ripping the filter paper under a vacuum. But in general, these funnels are very good at what they do. I also have a 2-piece plastic one that I haven't used yet, so I can't commit on them.

 

[4metals]

I generally don't have large quantity of solutions, so I don't vacuum filter very much

If you don't use vacuum much, these heavy glass speed funnels are excellent. You fold the paper and the ridges keep the paper from sealing to the sidewall of the funnel and they filter pretty quickly for gravity.

 

[joshu705]

View attachment 65928
View attachment 65929
Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about Buchner funnels and I mentioned hole sizes on the filter plate. These two images may help explain the difference. The bottom photo almost always will tear the paper through when filtering unless you use a screen fabric under the paper. The top filter has much smaller holes and the paper is not inclined to tear. Given a choice I would choose the smaller holes in the plate.

Thank you for the example. After looking at mine I'm guessing that is considered a big hole so I shall order some screen that you talked about. Or what brand is it that has the small holes that is of good quality? The one I got was just a cheap $40 off Amazon. But then again it may come in handy with the bigger holes washing off stuff that comes out of the hydrochloric acid bath with a bubbler to spray off the chips into before they get thrown away.