Gold in Arsenopyrite

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
g_axelsson said:
Total amount of sulphide concentrate processed in 2007 was 600 000 tons plus 110 000 tons of scrap metal and 36000 tons of electronic scrap. The interesting part of the production was 12 ton gold, 347 ton silver and 214 000 ton copper.

So that's a total of 746 000 tons, yielding 12 tons of gold. Is that 16 gram/ton? Or am I punching my calculator wrong? I suppose the 110 000 tons of scrap metal shouldn't count.

Reading about all of this, I wonder why they don't try to leave the arsenic as metallic arsenic instead of an oxide. The metallic form would have the lowest volume/weight. Although it would have to be sealed up tight to sequester it.

Irons said:
I've run into 'ore' that was over 50% As by weight.

Wow. That 'ore' must not have had much copper???

g_axelsson said:
Whenever I collected metallic arsenic as mineral specimens they just smiled. I don't think it mattered in any way but I collected 50-100 kilos of almost pure arsenic. Almost pure, as the arsenic actually contained circa 10% silver. :D

Does that smile mean that you recovered the silver?

Regards.
John
 
16 grams per ton doesn't seem to much for me, it is concentrated ore after flotation.

It all boils down to economics, to reduce the arsenic oxide to metallic arsenic would take a lot of power, work and processing equipment. I don't think it is really pure either so it is a lot faster and cheaper to store it with the rest of the wastes.
It is not only arsenic that ends up in the waste storage. Cadmium and mercury is just two metals that I can think of that has to be taken care of.

No, I didn't recover the silver but I added the smiley because I know many people here is only thinking about precious metals and never consider that it could have a value beyond the metal contents. Actually I kept all of it as mineral specimens. It is world class specimens of allargentum and worth many times more than it's weight in silver. Small pieces with arsenic only, 10-20 grams range could easily fetch $20 or more on ebay and pieces with visible silver mineral (allargentum) would fetch a lot more than that. I have enough arsenic specimens to keep selling for the next 20 years.

I don't have any allargentum pictures online yet but I can show you a nice piece of gold in quartz from Björkdal gold mine. The specimen is 6 cm long and have several pieces of visible gold.
[img:800:600]http://www.geology.neab.net/pictures/rock341.jpg[/img]

And a small piece of base rock with arsenic on top. It turns brown to black on the surface after a while. Specimen length 4.5 cm. This one ended up in Australia.
[img:800:600]http://www.webshop.neab.net/ebay/2008/Arsenik-0004.jpg[/img]
 
g_axelsson said:
It all boils down to economics, to reduce the arsenic oxide to metallic arsenic would take a lot of power, work and processing equipment.

You are probably right, but since the arsenic is not oxidized in the arsenopyrite molecule, FeAsS or (Fe,Co)AsS, it would only be necessary to break the bonds between the As and iron and sulfur. In pyrite, FeS2, the iron and the sulfur are bonded, so it makes me wonder how strong the As bond(s) would be.

At any rate, I'm probably relying on Wikipedia too much. The arsenic page says:

On roasting in air of arsenopyrite, arsenic sublimes as arsenic (III) oxide leaving iron oxides, while roasting without air results in the production of metallic arsenic. For further purification of the arsenic from sulfur and other chacogenes is sublimed in vacuum or in a hydrogen atmosphere or by distilling it from molten lead-arsenic mixture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic Look in the section labeled "Production" The oxidation of arsenic may be exothermic, providing some of the heat for roasting. However, in the two stage roasts that are employed, it seems like it might be possible to get metallic arsenic from the first roast. (between 450 C to 550 C)

g_axelsson said:
No, I didn't recover the silver but I added the smiley because I know many people here is only thinking about precious metals and never consider that it could have a value beyond the metal contents. Actually I kept all of it as mineral specimens. It is world class specimens of allargentum and worth many times more than it's weight in silver. Small pieces with arsenic only, 10-20 grams range could easily fetch $20 or more on ebay and pieces with visible silver mineral (allargentum) would fetch a lot more than that. I have enough arsenic specimens to keep selling for the next 20 years.

I didn't think you would refine it for the silver. That's why I was confused by the smiley :)

Regards.
John

Oh, by the way, nice pictures. (Nice rocks!)
 
semi-lucid said:
At any rate, I'm probably relying on Wikipedia too much. The arsenic page says:

On roasting in air of arsenopyrite, arsenic sublimes as arsenic (III) oxide leaving iron oxides, while roasting without air results in the production of metallic arsenic. For further purification of the arsenic from sulfur and other chacogenes is sublimed in vacuum or in a hydrogen atmosphere or by distilling it from molten lead-arsenic mixture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic Look in the section labeled "Production" The oxidation of arsenic may be exothermic, providing some of the heat for roasting. However, in the two stage roasts that are employed, it seems like it might be possible to get metallic arsenic from the first roast. (between 450 C to 550 C)

The important part of that wikipedia page is that the process is exothermic. With the sulphide contents in the concentrate the roasting process is self sustaining. But to treat the arsenic in a step prior to the roasting just to drive off a small percent of impurities in an oven under protective atmosphere is a much more complex process than to just roast the ore and collect the arsenic oxide in the smoke stack by cooling the gases. The sulphur is collected as sulphuric acid by a scrubber after the arsenic filter.

Don't forget that they are producing copper, lead, zinc, silver and gold, not arsenic.

I've heard people talk about the worst job in the factory is to clean the arsenic filters.

semi-lucid said:
Oh, by the way, nice pictures. (Nice rocks!)

Thanks!
 
One last question about this. (Or maybe two or three or four. :) )

g_axelsson said:
it is concentrated ore after flotation

Are the materials removed during flotation 100% free of arsenic?

Mostly Silica is removed?

Is there any copper/silver/gold lost in the flotation process?

If the gold is in extremely fine particle's, it seems like it would be difficult not to loose some during flotation. Or maybe it is the fine particle's that allow it to float?

It's just difficult for me to imagine that flotation could be 100% efficient. And if the tailing's from flotation are contaminated with arsenic, they would be part of the disposal problem.

Regards.
John
 
Flotation is done by chrushing the ore to a fine powder and mix it with certain chemicals. Then you bubble air through it and the ore particles get stuck to the air bubbles, creating a foam of ore concentrate. Silicates and other minerals doesn't stick to the bubbles and is washed out as tilings.

Of course it's not 100% effective, it is the exact percentage that gives most return of invested money as all industrial processes. I don't know the exact percentage but I think it is quite high though. Most of the gold in the ore is microscopic together with the sulphides. It is really rare to find visible gold in these mines.

I was talking with one of the geologists and he had never seen gold in the mine even though some parts of the ore had up to 100 g per ton.
Oh, I have a large piece of pyrite from about that spot, No, I can't see any gold either.

You will find arsenic in the ore, in the sulphide concentrate, in the tailings and in the scrap pile outside the mine. The thing is to control and limit the release of heavy metals to the surrounding. You could do that in a number of different ways depending on many factors. I've seen a couple of different solutions. Covering it under clay to keep water from getting to it, rising the ground water to cover the rocks to stop oxygen getting to it, dumping it back into the mine after it closed... and so on.
 
I suppose the bottom line for this thread is, arsenic bearing ore's are not good material for amateur refiners.

It's probably best for hobbyists to learn to recognize them, and steer clear of them. Leave them to company's with deep pockets.

I still wonder about that ore geubrina showed in this thread:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=3456

15% Cu & 22%? Fe.

Does that not look like a sulfide ore? Is there a likelihood that it could contain arsenic?

You would think that his analysis report would have told him, but he only provided page two of the report.

John
 
Clearly a sulphide. I would guess on chalcopyrite and that would be consistent with the copper versus iron content. There is a lot in that rock that isn't reported but with 15% copper the valuable part isn't the gold but the copper. The question is, how large is the mineralization?

If I found something like that here in Sweden I would go to the miners office and register a claim on that find. Then I would do some poking around by my self to find out if there are any areas close by that I also should claim. Then I would contact a mining company and sell it.

To evaluate a mineralization and start a mine is a really costly business today and nothing for an amateur.
The only sensible thing to do if you find a very rich but small ore body, too small for a regular mining company, is to mine the sulphide and try to sell it to a smelter that have all the refining equipment needed for processing complex sulphide ores. To them the arsenic content is no problem, it is something they deal with on a daily basis.

The problem many amateurs does is they grab a sample of the best looking ore, get it assayed and finds very high numbers. But the real numbers are a lot lower. Then they will spend a fortune trying to mine the ore or to find an investor falling for their fine numbers. To get a real evaluation you have to do ore calculations based on prospective drilling through the ore body in a number of places. By calculating mean ore yields and tonnage you get a realistic value of your ore. If it is more than the price of mining it you got a winner. If not the best thing is just to walk away. If metal prices rises then it could become interesting again.

As for why the report didn't contain any arsenic it was probably not asked for. The more detailed analyze the more it cost. In a prospective phase you usually concentrate on the values.
 
Johnson Matthey has a limit of 400 PPM on Arsenic content. I've sent samples of Arsenic bearing material to commercial refiners and the only material they showed any interest in assayed 35 PPM As. Even at 35 PPM, it is a hazard unless precautions are taken. That was the lowest As concentration I have found so far in PM bearing 'ore.'

Just getting an assay for precious metals is a waste of time unless you have the ore assayed for elements that would invoke a penalty.
 
Richard36 said:
What minerals invoke a penalty? I am aware of antimony and arsenic, what are the others?

Zero tolerance for Beryllium, any radionucleides( Radium,Uranium, Thorium, etc)It could be any nunber of things Like Osmium, Ruthenium concentration.

The setup charge can be pretty steep and you may have to pay up front. They have to make their nickel too.

I'm sure there are rfefiners who can give you advice. They may not want to work with it at all and politely show you the door.

Look for a refiner the way you would look for a wife Give them their pound of flesh, so when they stick it to you, you're both smiling.
 
Just some Notes :arrow:

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=39516#39516

Pre-oxidation of high-sulfur and high-arsenic refractory gold concentrate by ozone and ferric ions in acidic media

Qingcui Lia, Dengxin Li , a, , and Fangjun Qiana
aCollege of Environmental Science and Engineering, Donghua University, 2999 North Renmin Road, Songjiang District, Shanghai 201620, China

Received 28 September 2008;
revised 13 January 2009;
accepted 14 January 2009.
Available online 22 January 2009.

Abstract
Owing to precious metals and hazardous elements contained in high-sulfur and high-arsenic refractory gold concentrate (HGC), effective treatment of HGC can have both economic and environmental benefits. In this paper, pre-oxidation HGC by ozone and Fe (III) in acidic media and subsequent cyanide leaching of the pretreated ores were investigated. An L9 (four factors in three levels) standard orthogonal array was employed to evaluate the effects of ferric concentration, reaction temperature, reaction time, and liquid to solid ratio on ferric extraction from HGC. Statistical techniques were used to determine that reaction temperature was the most significant factors affecting ferric extraction. Furthermore, the results of factorial experiments showed ferric extraction increased with an increase of ozone concentration, liquid to solid ratio and temperature, but was independent of stirring speed when the speed was above 860 rpm. Also, the selected oxidized residues after the pretreatment process were characterized by X-ray fluorescence (XRF), X-ray diffraction (XRD) and subjected to subsequent cyanide leaching tests. Gold extraction after pre-oxidation under optimum conditions increased from 19.5% of direct cyanide leaching to 96.5%.

Keywords: Pre-oxidation; Ozone and ferric sulfate; Orthogonal experiment; High-sulfur and high-arsenic refractory gold concentrate

Ozone will oxidize metals except gold, platinum, and iridium to oxides of the metals in their highest oxidation state. Ozone can be used to remove manganese from the water, forming a precipitate which can be filtered. The highest levels of ozone in the atmosphere are in the stratosphere, in a region also known as the ozone layer between about 10 km and 50 km above the surface. Here it filters out the shorter wavelengths less than 320 nm of ultraviolet light 270 to 400 nm from the Sun that would be harmful to most forms of life in large doses. These same wavelengths are also among those responsible for the production of vitamin D, which is essential for human health. Ozone can be used for bleaching substances and for killing bacteria. Disinfect laundry in hospitals, food factories, care homes etc, Disinfect water before it is bottled, deodorize air and objects, such as after a fire, kill bacteria on food or on contact surfaces, scrub yeast and mold spores from the air in food processing plants, wash fresh fruits and vegetables to kill yeast, mold and bacteria, chemically attack contaminants in water such us iron, arsenic, hydrogen sulfide, nitrites, and complex organics lumped together as color, provide an aid to flocculation (agglomeration of molecules, which aids in filtration, where the iron and arsenic are removed).
 
So, let's see then. If I leach some concentrate with Poor Mans AR( Sodium Nitrate / Muratic Acid mix ), Could I then gas the solution with ozone to drop out impurities, as well as somewhat neutralize the solution by removing the nitrate portion, then recover the Gold from solution with Sulfur Dioxide gas, or ferrous sulfate, And platinum with Ammonium Chloride?
 
Thanks. I have already done so. Allot of good info. The process that I proposed is my own hypothesis, and did not see it covered. Did I miss it some where? Nonetheless, will the above process work? I admit, the sulfur dioxide info., and the ammonium chlorate / chloride process is listed, but nothing about Ozone gas as a neutralizing, and possibly a precipitating agent.
 
g_axelsson said:
Clearly a sulphide. I would guess on chalcopyrite and that would be consistent with the copper versus iron content. There is a lot in that rock that isn't reported but with 15% copper the valuable part isn't the gold but the copper. The question is, how large is the mineralization?

From Wikipedia, Chalcopyrite http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcopyrite

"it is often contaminated by a variety of other trace elements such as Co, Ni, Mn, Zn and Sn substituting for Cu and Fe. Se, Fe and As substitute for sulfur, and trace amounts of Ag, Au, Pt, Pd, Pb, V, Cr, In, Al and Sb are reported.

It is likely many of these elements are present in finely intergrown minerals within the chalcopyrite crystal, for instance lamellae of arsenopyrite representing As, molybdenite representing Mo, etc"

Sounds like geubrina has a complex and possibly toxic ore.

g_axelsson said:
The only sensible thing to do if you find a very rich but small ore body, too small for a regular mining company, is to mine the sulphide and try to sell it to a smelter that have all the refining equipment needed for processing complex sulphide ores. To them the arsenic content is no problem, it is something they deal with on a daily basis.

That could be _very_ good advice for geubrina. He was looking for a way to do the process on his own. (As I re-read his thread, I saw that he identified the materials as sulphide.)

geubrina said:
Yes, Harold, there are many specimens of minerals in our area. But, for a big scale mining company, they want to find a big phorpyryr ore body.

Here, the minerals are many kinds (complex) but no big quantity (as a company standard, the quantity is small).

Also, you know, the regulation here is not so good. Everybody can interpretate as they want... :D

But, in Papua Island, there is huge ore body and huge US company (Freeport) exploiting the copper and gold...

Maybe be he could sell ore to Freeport. If he can work out a safe way to mine and transport it.

Regards.
John
 
Last year, I met a man who admitted as a senior Geologist who worked for Freeport, some years ago. He is so enthusiastic to see the sample copper ore. He said it is skarn and suspect a huge ore body there.

Another characteristic of the ore is it is strongly magnetic. I think it is cubanite because of the approx composition of Copper, Iron and Sulphur is most similar to Cubanite, then to Chalcopyrite. And they are both sulphide type.

It is right that it has veins that has the value of copper at 12-17% (for random sampling not selected). Another information is that, my friend who checked the ore with a Handheld XRF, show the result of Ir at 0.037-0.09%! Now, I am sending the sample to Randy to check the values of Precious Metals in it. Maybe good news will come from him.

I have spent most of my money at last mining season, due to heavy rain. So, now I must wait for more cash to start the mining again.

Anyway, thanks to John and all friends here for all comments and ideas. Appreciate it very much.
 
geubrina

In the USA, there is much land owned by the government. When a person finds a valuable mine site, they are sometimes able file a "claim", which gives them legal protection, and the right to mine the site.

In Indonesia, are you able to file a claim if you find a good mine site?

I have spent most of my money at last mining season, due to heavy rain. So, now I must wait for more cash to start the mining again.

When is mining season in Indonesia?

Anyway, be careful about the arsenic. It is toxic, and it is known to cause cancer in humans. It can pollute rivers and groundwater. It's Bad stuff :evil:



John
 
John, I have bought the land and made claim for the mining right. But, it is not so simple. I can not explain it in the open forum.

What I meant with the mining season is the period of time when we have the possibility to mine without having the heavy rain. The heavy rain cause high cost and high risk. That is what happened to me last year.

Usually, we have half year dry season and half year raining season. But now, it is so unstable. Last year, almost the whole year is raining season there.
 
semi-lucid said:
geubrina

Anyway, be careful about the arsenic. It is toxic, and it is known to cause cancer in humans. It can pollute rivers and groundwater. It's Bad stuff :evil:


John

Thanks for the warning about the arsenic. I will watch out and take preventive actions.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top