Gold in old copper items?

[GoldenShark]

Hello.

A friend from a certain country mentioned that old copper items produced there in the past sometimes contained small amounts of gold in them.

I can understand some very small trace amounts but couldn't find anything out yet about "bigger amounts".

They said when they were a child they remember someone collecting all the old copper items they could find from village to village to extract the gold from these items.

I mean if that was true, people would already have bought out as much of these copper items from that country and made a gold extraction already.

Sounds like a nice story to me, what do you think?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello.

A friend from a certain country mentioned that old copper items produced there in the past sometimes contained small amounts of gold in them.

I can understand some very small trace amounts but couldn't find anything out yet about "bigger amounts".

They said when they were a child they remember someone collecting all the old copper items they could find from village to village to extract the gold from these items.

I mean if that was true, people would already have bought out as much of these copper items from that country and made a gold extraction already.

Sounds like a nice story to me, what do you think?

Old copper pre electrolysis times can contain quite some Gold.
But later like after 1900 or somewhere around there,
when the demand for purer Copper due to conductivity and large scale electrolytic operations started,
not much Gold will be there.

 

[GoldenShark]

Thanks.

What do you think about using a gold test kit on older copper items to see if worthwhile to extract the gold from.

Any guesses as to possible yield?

 

[Yggdrasil]

I'm not sure there is enough to see.

 

[goldshark]

I don't know if your government has a mineral survey department. Here in the US, there is very competent info on every major mineral deposit. Some research might reveal some assay results, which would give the percentages of metals per ton (tonne). You also would have to become a bit knowledgable on the Copper artifacts, to be able to determine age, which might coincide with further development in metallurgical processes to remove the Au.

 

[anarxi]

Thanks.

What do you think about using a gold test kit on older copper items to see if worthwhile to extract the gold from.

Any guesses as to possible yield?

No, that won't work.
After all, the gold content in the alloy is thousandths and ten thousandths of a percent.
just if you fuse 10 kilograms of such copper.
then you send it for electrolysis then:

10000 gram x 0.001%
equals 10 grams of gold in the cell sludge.

 

[GoldenShark]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the copper items were older than electrolysis methods being employed, then the yield could be higher than 0.001%?

 

[anachronism]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the copper items were older than electrolysis methods being employed, then the yield could be higher than 0.001%?

Yeah you'd be right. Copper and gold go hand in hand in the old mines.

 

[anarxi]

Yes, it matters from which mines the copper was extracted to produce the product.
in some copper mines the gold content of the copper ore was quite high.
for example, in the Russian Empire these were the Ural mines
and there are many different stories with copper coins, in which there were particles of gold and silver.

 

[anarxi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the copper items were older than electrolysis methods being employed, then the yield could be higher than 0.001%?

You underestimate the ancient metallurgists

and is gram per kilogram not enough?
the process is very simple...

 

[GoldenShark]

Thanks everyone for their input and replies, appreciate it.

It sounds like it may actually be worthwhile besides the general interest-factor...

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thanks everyone for their input and replies, appreciate it.

It sounds like it may actually be worthwhile besides the general interest-factor...

Yes it can be done, but depending on the access to material and so on, it most likely will not give a profit.
Anyway access to sufficient and stable amount of old enough Copper will be the key.

 

[minero74]

Many copper mine of today are producing good amount of gold as by product.
some times the amount of gold they produce as by product pay off more than half of their bills.
today most copper mine refine they copper
to almost the purer state.

i can only imagen how much gold are still in those old copper item.

should be a good idea testing such item.

Many Europe and other country old villages and perhaps stores that sale antiques
maybe You can find those old copper items.

Edited.

 

[Martijn]

No, that won't work.
After all, the gold content in the alloy is thousandths and ten thousandths of a percent.
just if you fuse 10 kilograms of such copper.
then you send it for electrolysis then:

10000 gram x 0.001%
equals 10 grams of gold in the cell sludge.

First point: 1 percent of 10kg is 100gram. Divide that by 1000 (0,001%) and you get 0,1 gram, not 10 gram.
Not knowing where you get your numbers from and if that claimed percentage is anywhere near accurate...

That 0,001% does represent 1 gram per Ton if my calculation is correct. Which indeed is not worth it, when going for the gold. When going for the pure copper however it can be worth it, with the gold as a bonus, that the refiner keeps and will not pay you for.

Second point: how much of this "old copper" is still around with the high prices we've seen at times in the past? You have piles that survived all the copper 'rushes'? (thieves stealing everything that looks like copper for scrap value)
If you can even find it, it probably is not of such age that is holds any gold worth mentioning. it probably is all recycled many times now and the copper refiner stuffed his pockets with it. Long time ago.

If a copper piece is of such age, why not sell it to a museum or collector and get ten times the gold price.

So, is the research and the effort worth the yield? I doubt it.
I suggest the OP to bring the oldest piece he has to someone with an XRF to get an idea. Or first to a antique dealer.

 

[Martijn]

Many copper mine of today are producing good amount of gold as by product.
some times the amount of gold they produce as by product pay off more than half of their bills.
today most copper mine refine they copper
to almost the purer state.

i can only imagen how much gold are still in those old copper item.

should be a good idea testing such item.

Many Europe and other country old villages and perhaps stores that sale antiques
maybe You can find those old copper items.

Edited.

You are mixing copper mines with copper scrap and recycling.

i think the patina on the old items alone is worth more than the possible gold content combined with the copper value.

 

[GoldenShark]

I agree that the antique/collector value is most times going to be worth more than any precious metals obtained.
Even if find old item, no guarantee of gold yield. Lot of work then for maybe no financial reward.

Anyway for interest sake I was reading different methods and videos, and saw this YT video where he extracts the precious metals from a chunk of mixed-copper.
Do you think this is real? Looks like a very high yield at the end.

 

[Martijn]

That glob of metals he starts with came out of a crucible. You can tell from the curve of the 'ore' and the amount of bubbles formed underneath.
So anything he alloyed in there can be separated, yes.
How much gold and silver you will get from any piece of copper alloy, depends on how much gold is in there. Kind of obvious, not?

The higher the purity of the copper, the better the copper cell will perform.

So we're not talking about a 'credible yield', then he would have to process an ore or e-waste from some source with some consistency.

 

[Martijn]

This guy is not using a copper cell by the way, but parting with nitric, after, i guess inquarting for separation.

 

[anarxi]

First point: 1 percent of 10kg is 100gram. Divide that by 1000 (0,001%) and you get 0,1 gram, not 10 gram.
Not knowing where you get your numbers from and if that claimed percentage is anywhere near accurate...

That 0,001% does represent 1 gram per Ton if my calculation is correct. Which indeed is not worth it, when going for the gold. When going for the pure copper however it can be worth it, with the gold as a bonus, that the refiner keeps and will not pay you for.

Second point: how much of this "old copper" is still around with the high prices we've seen at times in the past? You have piles that survived all the copper 'rushes'? (thieves stealing everything that looks like copper for scrap value)
If you can even find it, it probably is not of such age that is holds any gold worth mentioning. it probably is all recycled many times now and the copper refiner stuffed his pockets with it. Long time ago.

If a copper piece is of such age, why not sell it to a museum or collector and get ten times the gold price.

So, is the research and the effort worth the yield? I doubt it.
I suggest the OP to bring the oldest piece he has to someone with an XRF to get an idea. Or first to a antique dealer.

1 kg = 1000 grams.
10 kg add one more 0
total = 10000
10000 x 0.001
remove three zeros
= 10.

 

[anarxi]

Old copper is quite a lively topic...
But...
as they say in one of our quotes from the film:
"Everything has already been stolen before us..."
but for example, in Russia, when the mass distribution of metal detectors began, they began to find treasures that contained copper coins, usually 5 kopecks.
these were very heavy coins, each weighing 50 grams.
many were in very poor condition
had no numismatic value
+ there are a lot of them on the market...
they were bought precisely for such actions....
in addition, various historical clothes, national ones, were bought for the sake of gilded threads....

I used the thousandth of a percent figure just to demonstrate how much even a thousandth can mean...