gold melting
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That's a difficult question to answer without more information.
What was the feed material you dissolved in aqua regia? How did you precipitate it? How did you wash it prior to trying to melt it?
How are you trying to melt it? What kind of torch? What kind of melting dish? How much gold are you trying to melt? Are you using borax as a flux? How much?
Pictures can often help. Post some pictures of your precipitated gold, your melting setup, and the result after melting and we may be able to help.
If you need help in posting pictures, see Attaching Images or Files, Working with Attachments.
Dave
What was the feed material you dissolved in aqua regia? How did you precipitate it? How did you wash it prior to trying to melt it?
How are you trying to melt it? What kind of torch? What kind of melting dish? How much gold are you trying to melt? Are you using borax as a flux? How much?
Pictures can often help. Post some pictures of your precipitated gold, your melting setup, and the result after melting and we may be able to help.
If you need help in posting pictures, see Attaching Images or Files, Working with Attachments.
Dave
jarlowski1
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2013
- Messages
- 176
As FrugalRefiner mentioned what you have asked is difficult to answer unless we have the information he has suggested. A few pictures would certainly help us out a lot. Upload a few pictures of what your gold looks like after you melted it.
I am going to speculate here without the appropriate information and say that you have added too much borax to your crucible. This can be fixed by 1 heating the crucible until the borax melts then pour the borax out of the crucible (save this and inspect it for small beads of gold). Then place the gold in the crucible and re-melt the gold. Pour (carefully) the extra borax out of the crucible leaving the gold inside, then remove the gold the same way as you did before. This should leave you with a nice piece of gold with very little borax stuck to it. Again this is an assumption without more information.
Edit. Provide us with more information and pictures before you attempt anything else.
I am going to speculate here without the appropriate information and say that you have added too much borax to your crucible. This can be fixed by 1 heating the crucible until the borax melts then pour the borax out of the crucible (save this and inspect it for small beads of gold). Then place the gold in the crucible and re-melt the gold. Pour (carefully) the extra borax out of the crucible leaving the gold inside, then remove the gold the same way as you did before. This should leave you with a nice piece of gold with very little borax stuck to it. Again this is an assumption without more information.
Edit. Provide us with more information and pictures before you attempt anything else.
It’s Borax. And you probably have such little gold. Borax turns to a glass type substance on cooling which can be very sharp and gives nasty cuts.
When you melt gold the borax turns to a hot lava substance which melts the gold beneath it. With map gas it should take you about 5 minutes if that.
I don’t even preheat my dishes I just melt and I’m done in 5 minutes. I do however cover my melt “bowl” with a flat dish to contain the heat for a minute or so.
Sorry to be negative but You probably had little to no gold but think you did. Precipitated gold forms a button almost immediately assuming you’re using the right heat.
This is 13.6 grams I melted this afternoon and it literally took me less that 5 minutes from fine dust to button.
It’s about to go back into AR once I’ve finished distilling.
When you melt gold the borax turns to a hot lava substance which melts the gold beneath it. With map gas it should take you about 5 minutes if that.
I don’t even preheat my dishes I just melt and I’m done in 5 minutes. I do however cover my melt “bowl” with a flat dish to contain the heat for a minute or so.
Sorry to be negative but You probably had little to no gold but think you did. Precipitated gold forms a button almost immediately assuming you’re using the right heat.
This is 13.6 grams I melted this afternoon and it literally took me less that 5 minutes from fine dust to button.
It’s about to go back into AR once I’ve finished distilling.
Attachments
A tip if you use too much borax is to remove the torch for 10 seconds in which time any metallic gold hardens but the borax is still soft enough to pour off into cold water as shot. You can then easily crush any hardened borax with a spoon which will show any encased gold.
However I have never had that I’ve always been able to see my button in the bottom of the dish which I pick out once ready. But the answer to your question is it’s contaminated borax not gold.
By contaminated I mean not gold. Some other metals probably. Some junk.
However I have never had that I’ve always been able to see my button in the bottom of the dish which I pick out once ready. But the answer to your question is it’s contaminated borax not gold.
By contaminated I mean not gold. Some other metals probably. Some junk.
That's a big assumption since the OP hasn't responded yet, so we don't know whether or not he used borax. It may very well be, but until the OP responds, it's just a guess.Jmk88 said:
That's not right. Borax melts at 1,369°F (743°C). Gold melts at 1,948°F (1,064°C). So it's entirely possible to melt borax without melting gold. If the temperature is high enough, both will melt, but borax does not melt gold.
Dave
We'll never know unless he responds. It is one of the great frustrations of trying to help someone when they don't respond to questions that are asked. It has caused many members to stop trying.
Dave
Dave
Yes.
I said it Before but I think you can kind of tell whether it’s a fruitless effort by the question.
I mean that in the sense that when I think back at when I used to ask yourself and others stuff via Pm, it was because I didn’t take the time to read and then apply and learn from mistakes. I still make errors, I smashed 2 flasks last week in one morning I was so annoyed.
What I mean is I think some of the questions I asked was because I didn’t have a clue. I think people like yourself are better off helping those that show they help themselves.
I’ve learnt a lot from your posts. You, Lasersteve and butcher. And KA driver. Between you four I would credit 50% of my learning. I would choose you lot over hoke all day. Again, the more I read hoke the more I realise she did not write that for the fool.
I said it Before but I think you can kind of tell whether it’s a fruitless effort by the question.
I mean that in the sense that when I think back at when I used to ask yourself and others stuff via Pm, it was because I didn’t take the time to read and then apply and learn from mistakes. I still make errors, I smashed 2 flasks last week in one morning I was so annoyed.
What I mean is I think some of the questions I asked was because I didn’t have a clue. I think people like yourself are better off helping those that show they help themselves.
I’ve learnt a lot from your posts. You, Lasersteve and butcher. And KA driver. Between you four I would credit 50% of my learning. I would choose you lot over hoke all day. Again, the more I read hoke the more I realise she did not write that for the fool.
In the spirit of Butcher...
A knife is a great tool to a chef... but give it to a fool and all sorts of chaos occurs.
That’s a bit like Hoke in my opinion. I was reading an article the other day where a man in 2016 in England cooked gold in mercury in his downstairs kitchen in a block of flats and nearly died. He was in intensive care for 5 months and the whole block was condemned for 10 years minimum for contamination.
A knife is a great tool to a chef... but give it to a fool and all sorts of chaos occurs.
That’s a bit like Hoke in my opinion. I was reading an article the other day where a man in 2016 in England cooked gold in mercury in his downstairs kitchen in a block of flats and nearly died. He was in intensive care for 5 months and the whole block was condemned for 10 years minimum for contamination.
Striker33
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2020
- Messages
- 22
One method I found to remove the last bits of borax dots on the button is to repeatedly melt and quench the button in water. It picks up borax out of your dish each time, then shatters off in the water. You need to hold the button in the water long enough for it all to crack off.
glorycloud
Well-known member
Dilute H2SO4 (battery acid) works very well to remove borax
from a refined gold button under low heat. 8)
from a refined gold button under low heat. 8)
kurtak
Well-known member
Jmk88 said:
What makes you think it is borax ?
The OP did not say anything about using borax when asking about melting his gold - he simply said the "precipitated" gold is "turning" to glass when melting
As Dave said - we need more info from the OP before we can help him --- meaning its hard (if not impossible) to give a clear answer to such a simple question --- unless we have more info on just what he has done
Example; - it (the glass) could be the result of salts because the solution was not properly filtered - or salts that precipitated because he did something stupid like adding baking soda or hydroxide
And by the way - for what it is worth - & I hope you wont take this wrong - but your gold looks horrible
It is clearly dirty/contaminated - that is clearly seen by the black slag/borax stuck to your gold
In the first place - there should be NO reason for using that much borax when melting your gold - if (as you have posted) you are dropping "near pure" gold - the very thin layer of borax "glazing" used to "glaze" your melting dish is all the borax you should need to melt you gold - that "glazing" is done to the dish as a "lube" so the gold moves & rolls easy in the dish when molten - if the glaze is to heavy it will cause the (molten) gold to stick &/or hang up in the dish --- in other words the borax glaze (very thin) is meant to lube the dish & not meant to act as a flux to slag off impurities & you certainly should not need to use additional borax to melt your gold in order to slag off impurities
In other words Jmk88 - I am not trying to put you down here - I am simply trying to help you out here
There is NO reason for your gold melt to be so dirty that you need to use borax to slag off impurities --- & I don't care how "dirty" the solution is that you are precipitating your gold from - I have dropped many ozt of gold from some of the dirtiest solutions you can every work with - solutions that are LOADED with about every base metal you can think of as well as organics in the solutions & when I go to melt my gold I don't need borax to slag of impurities
In other words Jmk88 - you are doing something(s) wrong in your process if you need to use borax to slag off impurities when you go to melt your precipitated gold - you are ether ------------
(1) not "properly" filtering your solutions
(2) not doing the "proper" washes to your precipitated gold
Again - not putting you down here - just trying to figure out why you are needing to us borax to slag off impurities from you gold drop --- & for what it is worth - any time you need to us a flux to slag off impurities its a "smelting" process & depending on the impurities you may need other flux ingredients besides borax to clean the gold up
Also - for what is worth - I am not saying smelting (slagging off impurities) doesn't work - fact is it is one way to get at least "closer" to the end product of pure gold - but - gold that is so dirty it needs to be smelted (fluxed) will certainly need to be re-refined
Bottom line - you should not need to flux (smelt) your gold if "in the first place" you properly filter the solution & follow that up with proper washing
Kurt
Kurt....
Gold does not turn into glass does it? Or am I missing an alchemists trick there? I think common sense can be used here.
Who said I use borax to slag off materials? I think I’ve clearly stated that this will be going back into AR. I would say I’m very happy with what I have done. For a first refine coming from gold filled junk I don’t think I’ve done bad at all.
I would say “horrible” smells a bit of envy. But each to their own!
Kurt I know you’re Jons friend but please fella, let it go. People are here to help... unless you’re banging on about using copper to cement gold I really can’t see anything you say that I am interested in. And from what I understand even in person you got that wrong.
You keep copper cementing and I’ll keep making my horrible Gold that makes me a good amount of money.
Thanks Kurt.
Gold does not turn into glass does it? Or am I missing an alchemists trick there? I think common sense can be used here.
Who said I use borax to slag off materials? I think I’ve clearly stated that this will be going back into AR. I would say I’m very happy with what I have done. For a first refine coming from gold filled junk I don’t think I’ve done bad at all.
I would say “horrible” smells a bit of envy. But each to their own!
Kurt I know you’re Jons friend but please fella, let it go. People are here to help... unless you’re banging on about using copper to cement gold I really can’t see anything you say that I am interested in. And from what I understand even in person you got that wrong.
You keep copper cementing and I’ll keep making my horrible Gold that makes me a good amount of money.
Thanks Kurt.
And Kurt...
When I would like you to “help me out” I will ask.
The people I do ask here know who they are... why you and Jon always try to “help me out” when I never ask you to is a bit confusing...
Let’s see some of your gold? I’ve not seen any. Same with Jon funnily enough.
When I would like you to “help me out” I will ask.
The people I do ask here know who they are... why you and Jon always try to “help me out” when I never ask you to is a bit confusing...
Let’s see some of your gold? I’ve not seen any. Same with Jon funnily enough.
jimdoc
Well-known member
wtf
I'm scratching my head a bit here.
Where does this enemosity and urge to bash everone that tries to help come from?
Jon has left the forum and as such can not defend himself, but it is plain wrong that someone by beeing affiliated even loosesly with a forum member (that has done nothing wrong other than having the wrong opinion?) shall warrant this kind of behaviour.
The help may or may not be welcome, but can even if disregareded by the recipient, be to good use for somebody else.
Regarding the gold, see Jons avatar :wink:
Where does this enemosity and urge to bash everone that tries to help come from?
Jon has left the forum and as such can not defend himself, but it is plain wrong that someone by beeing affiliated even loosesly with a forum member (that has done nothing wrong other than having the wrong opinion?) shall warrant this kind of behaviour.
The help may or may not be welcome, but can even if disregareded by the recipient, be to good use for somebody else.
Regarding the gold, see Jons avatar :wink:
Animosity?
Kurt does not try to help. Kurts advice is great if you want to learn how to dump slabs of copper into dirty solutions and then scrape the gold off.... that’s Kurts idea of refining.
He endorses Jon who tells members boiling silver oxide and chloride in hcl will dissolve it... I can literally post the thread.
You don’t “try to help” someone by telling them their efforts are horrible. It’s a bit like saying “no disrespect meant” just before saying something utterly disrespectful.
Kurts refining advice it literally limited to dropping copper in AR and then repeating harolds cleaning process. That is not helping me personally in any way shape or form.
Kurt does not try to help. Kurts advice is great if you want to learn how to dump slabs of copper into dirty solutions and then scrape the gold off.... that’s Kurts idea of refining.
He endorses Jon who tells members boiling silver oxide and chloride in hcl will dissolve it... I can literally post the thread.
You don’t “try to help” someone by telling them their efforts are horrible. It’s a bit like saying “no disrespect meant” just before saying something utterly disrespectful.
Kurts refining advice it literally limited to dropping copper in AR and then repeating harolds cleaning process. That is not helping me personally in any way shape or form.
Hmm!
It seems you have a very black and white view of the world?
I believe I have read most, if not all of Kurts posts and your impression of him seems quite inaccurate if not completely wrong. The same goes for Jons posts and I can not recall this one, are you sure it is not taken out of context? And I have not seen Kurt endorsing Jon or anyone else by that matter.
If referring to people that has said or done something interesting/good/correct or so on, is considered endorsing then I'm struggeling to grasp your view of this forum.
For the actual advice given here regarding your gold melt, the "horrrible" and other categorization should not have been neccesary, even if it don't look very good.
Your advice to OP was slightly premature, since OP haven't given any feedback regarding the condition leading to his melt, so at that point Kurts comment was correct.
It seems you have a very black and white view of the world?
I believe I have read most, if not all of Kurts posts and your impression of him seems quite inaccurate if not completely wrong. The same goes for Jons posts and I can not recall this one, are you sure it is not taken out of context? And I have not seen Kurt endorsing Jon or anyone else by that matter.
If referring to people that has said or done something interesting/good/correct or so on, is considered endorsing then I'm struggeling to grasp your view of this forum.
For the actual advice given here regarding your gold melt, the "horrrible" and other categorization should not have been neccesary, even if it don't look very good.
Your advice to OP was slightly premature, since OP haven't given any feedback regarding the condition leading to his melt, so at that point Kurts comment was correct.
