gold melting

[Jmk88]

I have also read a lot of Kurts posts... believe me. And I have come to the conclusion that wasting one more minute of my time trying to take anything from them is it worth the trade.

Yes apparently he spent a week over here in the U.K. at Jon’s lab....

I speak regularly with professional refiners and they have laughed when I said to them I was advised cementing was the best was which if you look at Kurts comments, that’s all he goes on about.

As for the pic... I would challenge anyone to post something that beats that without running it through a second Refine. I melt my initial powder in a dirty dish that I also melt copper in... the black is borax contaminated with copper oxide. Very easy to deal with and like I say, a very decent outcome from a first refine.

You’re talking to me like I don’t know what I’m doing. It’s a bit like walking up to the man in the street and suggesting you can make his appearance a lot better or smarter. Did he ask you to? I think my response was quite placid.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I'm not going to engage in a discussion regarding refining here in this thread.
But arent you yourself making quite a few assumptions now, regarding endorsing and affiliating based on a single event years ago?
You and I can just guess regarding personal likes and dislikes reagarding that encounter.

And even if it led to a mutual friendship, we in the western cultures ususally do not project the "wrongdoings" of others on third parties do we?

Regarding your melt, your procedures regarding your melts was not mentioned in the post earlier.
So what did the OP not inform about?

You’re talking to me like I don’t know what I’m doing. It’s a bit like walking up to the man in the street and suggesting you can make his appearance a lot better or smarter. Did he ask you to? I think my response was quite placid.

I really do not understand this one fully.
Regarding Kurt, I guess he can take care of himself.

Less badmouthing others may serve you well, but I guess that is up to you.

 

[jarlowski1]

Jmk88

Please take a step back and calm down. No one here needs to get mad. If the wrong words were used then just say I disagree with " the words here" and explain your view and hopefully the person can respond nicely. As said here before and I know certainly first hand we live in a technology world and writing/texting sometimes loses the context that the writer wanted. Throw cultural and language/slang terms into the mix and that becomes very complex. That is why emojis were invented, to kind of show body language. Everyone these last couple of months have been on edge with losing jobs and trying to provide for their families. Some unable to see their families all together. So again lets try not to get mad at one another. Lets try to communicate better.

As for your gold I found it easier to put the powder in a jar until I get enough to do a second refine. That way you won't have to wait for that button to dissolve ( this is of course if you intend to refine it again in the first place)

 

[Jmk88]

I’m not mad at all. I’m simply responding. I’m not mad at all and I appreciate the dialogue with you... I’m a bit mad with Kurt as I think it’s not a good image to tell someone what he did but you acknowledged that.

I will say if you go through the gallery that my example is by far not bad. It’s half an ounce so I will wait until I have a full ounce and then I will refine the second time. I will then melt that in a “gold only” dish. I’ll post that.

And I’m not blaming Kurt for Jon. I’m saying he endorses him... we also have that as a fundamental system in the west. You have references on character.

I think Kurts just jealous to be frank. Someone half his age is on his heels. Plus he still has a boss at 61 so he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire with his refining has he.

I’ll stick with Lou, 4metals, frugal, butcher and KA driver for my learning. Kurts posts are a waste of reading time.

 

[kurtak]

Let’s see some of your gold? I’ve not seen any. Same with Jon funnily enough.

Ok - here is just ONE pic of some of my gold - over the last 12 - 13 year I have been doing this & as well been a member of this forum I have posted other pics of my gold - & the other pics I have posted don't even come close to representing all the gold I have refine - NOT EVEN CLOSE - but if you search my MANY years here on this form you will find a fair number of pics of my gold


:arrow: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=24639&p=262542&hilit=bars#p262459

you will note in the pic (above link) that besides the 1 ozt bar on the scale - there is another one sitting on the top (to the left) of the three kilo bars of silver in the pic

If you scroll up in that same thread you will see pics of Jons gold - which again does NOT come even close to all the gold Jon has refined

Last year - when I spent a week in Jon's lab I watched him - along with Deano, Nick, Goran, Pat & myself drop & melt several "kilos" of gold - gold that came from "several" different leaching methods including but not limited to cyanide leaching & much of that came from some of the dirtiest solutions you will ever see & leaching methods used on material that only a few of the very best refiners can even get the gold out of

In other words I had the pleasure of working with a hand full of some of the worlds best refiners & some of that material we worked on you would not even come close to figuring out how to get the gold out of it

In other words Jmk88 - Why do you think I got invited to that get together with some of the worlds best refiners ?

Hmmmm - mabe its because I have EARNED their respect to be included in their get together wherein we discussed & played with methods not normally discussed here on the forum (for safety reasons)

And the above mentioned people are not the only "professionals" from this forum I have personally met

I have also personally met & spent time in Daves house, 4metals house, Sharks house, Butchers house & a few others --- I have all of their phone numbers & can call to talk to any of them any time I want &/or come to their home for a visit any time I want - How many of these people do you "personally" know - how many of them do you have a phone number to or the address to their home

How much do know about cyanide leaching &/or have you ever done it - how much do you know about the reverse AR method &/or have you ever done - how many other methods - out side of those discussed on this forum or that you find on you tube have you been taught - methods not discussed here for safety reasons but methods that get gold from material that you wont get with methods discussed here

Why do you think these people are willing to talk to me & teach me things you have NO clue about ?

Maybe its because I have EARNED their respect - enough so that they have "invited" me into their circle of TRUE professional refiners giving me their phone numbers & welcome to their homes anytime I want

Oh - one more name to the list of refiners I personally know is Lou - I have never met him or been in his house - but I do have his phone number & have spoke with him on the phone

Now then - I don't give a rats @$$ whether you want my help on not - because when it comes to refining you are not much more then a pimple on my @$$ --- but you need to understand something here

I have been here MUCH longer then you & I have done this "for a living" & have produced more PURE gold then you - which is something you only HOPE for at this point

You may not like me &/or want my help - & that is just fine with me - but (again_ you need to understand that I have been here for a very long time & have been here helping/teaching members for a very long time --- so when I see something that is ether "flat out" mis-information &/or something I see that helps others "improve" on something I see posted here you can expect that I may well comment - not just for your benefit - but for the benefit of others

In other words Jmk88 - if/when I see you post something that is bad advice &/or something I see that needs improvement in what you may post - I am likely to reply - NOT because I am trying to help you in particular - but because there are others here that are willing to listen & learn

So you can blow me off all you want - that is your problem not mine - I am NOT here to teach you - I am here to teach "anyone" willing to learn - if that comes through my replying to something you post - that is just the way it is & WILL be :!:

In other words Jmk88 - I really don't care if you respect me or not - I am not here to be your best friend - I am here to to pass on what I have learned from some of the worlds VERY BEST so that others that are willing to learn - can learn --- & like it or not Jmk88 --- I have EARNED my place here to comment on "anything" you post here - if I feel what you post mis-info or bad advice or needs a comment to improve on what you are doing that is something you will have to live with - like it or not

On the other hand - you can get over the fact that I pointed out your Ph adjustment method was bad advice & not needed & start listening to & learning things to get you down the road to producing gold in both quantity & quality that currently you only dream about

Bottom line - the pic of your gold looks horrible - you can improve on it - learning how is up to you

& for what it is worth - that is what my gold looked like when I first started out - I no longer turn gold like that out - & thats because I was WILLING to listen to the people I mentioned above - & listening to them is how I "earned" their respect

Kurt

 

[Jmk88]

Bit of an essay...

I’m not really bothered who’s numbers you have or who’s houses you’ve been to. I’ve never spoken to half the people I mentioned. I’m talking strictly about their posts. I don’t need to know them or speak to them to learn from their content.

Yours on the other hand... is dumping copper in AR. I’ve read loads and loads of your posts. Literally it amounts to dumping copper in, scraping and then incinerating.

Kurt look at your bar compared to KA drivers... and you have the nerve to comment? Please.

I literally stated in my first post it’s dirty and needs a secondary process... then you come in like some sort of legend trying to “help me”... “look how horrible it is”. I haven’t exactly say there saying it’s a final product... I posted it to show it took me 5 minutes to melt some powder.

That’s all I have to say. Like I said to Jon you do you and I’ll do me.

 

[butcher]

Jmk88,
I have read all of the forums posts, and I have always found Kurts posts to be informational and helpful, I have never noticed any misinformation, and have noticed only good sound advice from his discussions, he has proven himself to be a very helpful and friendly member of this forum.

It is very easy fo us to misunderstand each other, or to misunderstand what another writes, or for it to go above our understanding, I feel you have a misunderstanding of what Kurt has posted.

You have started an attack on another member's character, without knowing or having a full understanding.


We are all here to learn and help each other, we may not always agree with each other, or we may not always understand each other, but that does not mean we cannot get along, and learn and still be helpful...

You may not understand Kurt or his advice, heck you may not even like the guy for some odd reason, but that does not give you the right or liberty to attack his character.

 

[kurtak]

Plus he still has a boss at 61 so he hasn’t exactly set the world on fire with his refining has he.

Thats an easy one to answer

For the 10 or 11 years before I made my move to Oregon I made "a living" (self employeed) refining including at times empolying poeple to work for me

When I moved to Oregon (two years ago) I was 61 & at first was considering setting up to continue with refining once I got moved in --- however once I was actually moved in - & at age 61 - I decided I no longer wanted to deal with the hassles of being self employed - I didn't any longer want to deal with the hassles of dealing with clients &/or employees etc. etc. (the thing that go with running a business)

so instead I decided I just wanted to get up in the morning - go to work & come home at the end of the work day & collect my pay check - its relitively hassle free compared to running your own business

I am now old enough (63) that I could retire if I wanted to - but I happen to like my job so will likely keep working for at least a couple more years

I also happen to still enjoy refining - so I do a "bit" of it on the side - for my self

In other words - I now work for a boss - because it makes my life simpler then trying to run my my own business again - at 63 I simply want to live a more relaxed life style

Kurt

 

[FrugalRefiner]

WOW!

I leave the forum for a few hours to try to pursue my own life, and I come back to this? I know the forum rules may not be as easy to find these days, so let me provide a few reminders:

We expect readers to be on their best behavior, thus avoiding confrontations that take energy away from the topics at hand, and to avoid losing good and valuable members. They simply create unnecessary and unwanted distractions away from the purpose of this forum - the recovery and refining of precious metals.

Be sympathetic to other members. There will be zero tolerance for personal attacks on the board. If you are at odds with another, feel free to have a polite debate, but temper your words with wisdom. Post your position, doing so by sticking to the subject at hand. Do not make your comments personal in nature. Flaming is not permitted. No one will be allowed to attack the character of another.

The Moderators come here to talk about refining. Members who do not follow the rules as stated, take away from the goal of this forum, which is “Refiners helping one another”. Whether they realize it or not, they are forcing the Moderators to be policemen when we are really here to discuss refining.

Dave

 

[kurtak]

Kurt look at your bar compared to KA drivers... and you have the nerve to comment? Please.

Ok Jmk88 - I will comment

The bar(s) in the first pic I posted was "not" a "picture" taken with proper lighting to "show off" my gold - it was a quick pic - taken with "poor" lighting to show the results of a batch discussed earlier

Here is a pic of some more of my gold taken with better lighting to show it off

:arrow: Oxalic Acid question/questions

That's what most if not all my gold looks like - including what the gold in the first pic would look like under proper lighting --- & I have poured MANY 1ozt & 2ozt bars that come out looking just like the ones in this pic

Which is why I had a couple long term "investor" buyers that paid me 5% over spot for my "refined" gold

Kurt

 

[Jmk88]

Kurt,

You had a pop at me and you got one back.

End of. Moving forwards you leave me alone and I’ll leave you alone and for the record, nothing I’ve posted wasn’t factual.

My comments regarding Ph were fact and backed by research. Link was posted. Fact.

You attacked my work. Fact.

Your bars look terrible compared to what I see daily. KA drivers I suggest you look at. Now you’re blaming light. Fact.

Jon is about as useful as a penis tasting lolly pop. Fact.

Sorry what exactly have I said, other than your age thing, that’s wrong? Which I essentially apologise for but again, fact. You threw a stone and I threw one back.

 

[Jmk88]

And even other keep commenting that your methods are not proper refining.... spaceships said exactly what I did in a polite way.

You’re what we call in the U.K. a one trick pony... Any clown can drop copper slabs or suspend wires.... that’s the main point of Hokes advice isn’t it? Use copper, use copper, use copper.

I am really not interested in any of your advice Kurt... how clearer can I be? If you’re that great, it’s my loss isn’t it so don’t worry.

I’m more wondering how I got this far without you... crazy isnt it?

 

[rickzeien]

" Jon is about as useful as a penis tasting lolly pop. Fact."

First Jon, now Kurt. Why in the h#@7 is this guy still on this forum?

 

[butcher]

He has been banned from the forum for two weeks.

 

[mls26cwru]

...if "in the first place" you properly filter the solution & follow that up with proper washing.

I can't tell you how much I have come to appreciate these two bits of knowledge... Done properly, this advice can get you to 99.5+ in one pass and eliminates the need for a second refining and saving a whole boatload of time and effort.

 

[galenrog]

Thank you, Butcher. Perhaps now, we can get back to the question posed at the top of the thread instead of tantrums resembling those of angry preschoolers on the playground.

On that original question, I presume a few things, absent additional details the OP may later provide. Any or all are possible, and probably some I am not thinking of right now.

First, the OP is concerned that his gold turned to glass. This immediately brings to mind the problems many of us had when first learning to melt gold. Too much borax. Anything more than a glaze on our melting dish can cause problems. Something I have done more than once.

Second, confusing smelting with melting. It happens. Confusing the terms is quite common with novices. Smelting will involve a flux that, if procedures are not followed correctly (and sometimes when they are) will trap much of the gold in a glasslike blob of solidified flux. Not too difficult to work your way out of, unless you are a novice, then it may seem insurmountable. Again, without additional details from the OP, we can only speculate.

Third, a dirty drop. Compounded with improper washings. Or no washings at all. It has probably happened to most of us early in our journey. With a novice, who may get information from rather dubious sources, the subsequent melt will look dirty with the only way out being something they saw on YouTube two or three years ago. That would be adding borax. As we know, too much causes problems.

That is about all I can add to the original conversation right now. Dave, in his first reply to the thread, summed up all the right questions. Jarlowski1 expounded a bit more on dealing with excess borax.

We can make comments based on our interpretation of the original question all day long. But until the OP returns to give details necessary to determine what the problem actually is, we can only speculate.

Time for more coffee.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Unfortunately, the OP has been back a number of times, but has never replied to this thread. Until he does, we'll never know.

Dave

 

[jarlowski1]

Yeah it truly is unfortunate that the OP hasn't posted back. We can maybe assume the old saying "No news is good news" and assume he/she fixed the problem.

 

[galenrog]

Unfortunately, the OP has been back a number of times, but has never replied to this thread. Until he does, we'll never know.

Dave

That, my friend, it why it is time for more coffee.

 

[jimdoc]

Unfortunately, the OP has been back a number of times, but has never replied to this thread. Until he does, we'll never know.

Dave

Maybe he thinks he will get an email to notify him of responses like some other sites?
Someone could send him a pm and see if he gets back to this topic.