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solar_plasma

solar_plasma

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Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
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Location
Germany
Does anybody know this apparatus or can anybody explain what method it is based on? ...gold (and pgms) is left as anode slimes, copper deposits at the cathode...so far so good, but how does this "silver filter" work (you see it at see end)? It seems to be a clarification bassin. But why comes the silver out in metallic form?

My guess is so far copper sulfate or nitrate as the electrolyte.

A gold smith/jeweler asked me about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0DuEItdQak

sorry, I could not find an english version - but they don't tell any secrets anyway
 
It looks like silver cement to me. I'm going to guess there is some copper in that portion of the cell, and the silver is cementing out on it. They don't really give a look inside that part of the cell. That's just a guess.

Dave
 
Possible, but not necessarily. I remember from my copper sulfate cell experiments, that the electrolyte glitters from small silver criystals. Maybe the "silver filter" is just a bassin with lower flow.

Whatever, I think we all agree that this apparatus isn't worth 8000 bugs, not even 200, and would not save any steps even if it was offered for free. The electrolyte will foul quickly and the recovered "gold" is nothing else but anode slimes, that need to get refined. The only metal that is close to be refined in this aparatus is copper.

There is only one route for the small refiner to clean up jewelry and it's AR, or with high silver content, first inquarting, parting and then AR the common Hoke and GRF way.

8000 would be enough to build a nice lab instead.

This is, what I told him. Please correct, if I am wrong in some details.
 
I think you are mostly correct guys, it looks like an electrolytic cell based on copper sulfate electrolyte.

The "anode slime" isn't the normal anode slime that we are getting from electrolytic dissolving a copper or silver anode where gold is dropping straight down. If it was the high gold content would shield the base metals and the process would come to a stop. It's more like a sulfuric deplating cell where high voltage and sulfuric acid dissolves gold for a short moment and then it drops out as a fine black sludge.
Silver and copper would be dissolved as sulfates, transported and then electrically brought back as metal on an anode. By carefully adjusting the voltage it should be possible to recover silver first without too much copper deposits, then on a second anode with higher voltage deposit the copper. By designing the circulation of the electrolyte to first pass the silver collecting cathode before hitting the copper cathode, a good separation can be made.

You can see in the video that there are three connections of power, although one might be only for the pump that circulates the electrolyte to the "silver filter". The silver filter could also be a graphite block in the bottom of that container.

The electrolyte seems to be moving slowly out of the gold chamber (only a small hole and no pump).
With the placement of the pump for the silver filter, any dissolved silver from the gold chamber is pumped through the silver filter first before reaching the copper plate.

At the 30 second mark we can see that the electrode in the gold apartment is a round ring of some black material and the bubbling tells us that there is quite a high voltage here like in the sulfuric deplating cell. I just wonder what the electrode material is made of. Anything on their homepage about replacement parts?

Göran
 
Really, they don't tell anything about how it works. Even the fact that basemetals will foul the electrolyte is shortly mentioned hidden in the FAQs.
 
FrugalRefiner said:
It looks like silver cement to me. I'm going to guess there is some copper in that portion of the cell, and the silver is cementing out on it. They don't really give a look inside that part of the cell. That's just a guess.

Dave
Click to expand...
Good call Dave, it's correct that the silver is cemented onto copper sheets. That is what they are calling a silver filter.

http://www.google.com/patents/EP2690199A2?cl=en
http://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/012e7b9c57f1058b3e99/EP2690199A2.pdf

The electrolyte is copper sulfate. Other than that it's a weak sulfuric deplating cell / copper cell.

Göran
 
Very cool info! Thanks Göran! Also thanks to Richard, Dave and Kurt for spending time on having a look on this and replying!
 
Goran

Is there by chance an English version of the second PDF link you provided - that looks like a really good read with very nice corresponding diagrams

The diagrams do explain them selves but it would still be nice to be able to read the text

My heritage is German (& Norwegian) but I don't speak a word of ether :mrgreen:

Kurt
 
Hey - I already have one of those & it only cost me $20 at the local thrift store :p

opps - just read the instructions - mine is only good for making bread :oops:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Kurt
 

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Consigned to the communal bin full of whacky but effectively useless items (in context of what we do) then.
 
goldsilverpro said:
In the 1st link, the translated patent says that the gold content in the alloy can't exceed 33% = 8K.
Click to expand...

Yes, the gold has to be alloyed first, kind of inquarting, then the copper content gets dissolved in a first step until the electrolyte gets clear. Then it dissolves the silver. Though I am pretty sure the silver already dissolves in the first step, too.

This thing remembers me a lot to the experiments in this thread from 2013 http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=12530&start=30#p184741 :lol:

I still don't understand someone can get a patent on common known methods like electrolytic copper refining.
 
I'm pretty sure that if we pooled the knowledge between a few of us on the forum we could design, build and sell a much better product.
 
Or at least something, that would fix the goldhunter problems like fouled electrolyte :D ...I have still those ion membranes that are waiting for me to get a divine afflatus 8)
 
And from which material is the black ring on the ground of the anode cup? Any ideas?

It should not solve. But which material can do this?


I also think it´s simply a copper cell. I tried some attempts to go behind the secret.

Therefor I use silver plated material whit brass in the middle. The copper goes to the cathode, zinc gets solved and the silver snows in the anode cup. Whitout any cup it is difficult to see s´the silver snows.

And here comes the pump from the goldhunter. They use a very slow flow, so that the gold can sink down and the snows silver can pumped up to the filter. Copper goes to the copper cathode. Whitout a pump, also silver goes to the cathode. Not many and not all over the complete area of the copper cathode.

So that means to me, the silver must be pumped up from the beginning.

Maybe the solution accumulate more and more zinc. And I have no idea what happen whit that stuff, when a certain concentration is achieved.
 
I suspect that the anode is made from graphite but I don't know.

What I know is that the silver filter is a number of copper plates where silver can cement so the silver is dissolved into the solution together with the base metals.

Göran
 
The anode is a copper alloy (copper gold silver)(basically the gold alloy), the cathode copper.

My question is the magnetic field, does it do anything and if so what?
Otherwise, this does not seem like much more than a copper refining cell with a magnetic field.
 

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