Has any seen this type of percipitate from AR before?

[Yggdrasil]

Ok so I ran a few batches of gold filled, burned and processed my filters I have built up and processed nitric waste i been pouring over some gold colored chalices mark international silver co. in a collection pot and processed the other stock pots for any waste. Did several nitric dissolutions on all that for a single AR. I didn't get any silver out from the nitric solution even after a day of leaving copper in to cement. So ok I took all the filtration from the batches and filters and incinerated then into AR. Filtered solution added ice and sodium metabisulfite to percipitate the gold. I knew some gold was in solution from a stannous test. After a few hours or so I looked at it and these crystal formation are dropping out. (See photo) does anyone know what is dropping out so I know what to do with it? I.e. run thru nitric again to seperate and then thru AR to get gold out. Or if this is something other then silver or gold. I wouldn't think it's silver cause silver would have come out at the nitric phase of dissolution. I've just never had this reaction with metabisulfite to percipitate gold before.

This is at best a bit confusing since you are jumping a bit to and from with the Nitric and AR processes.
How much solution was testing positive?
How positive was it? Slight violet or almost black.
Did you ever take a picture of your stannous test?
The only thing sure is that the white comes from what you put in
or a result from the reaction with the metals in your lot.

If you did not get any Silver from the Copper cementing, there was probably not any Silver in there.
Did you ever test with salt or HCl?

 

[gulottamichael58]

Ok so I ran a few batches of gold filled, burned and processed my filters I have built up and processed nitric waste i been pouring over some gold colored chalices mark international silver co. in a collection pot and processed the other stock pots for any waste. Did several nitric dissolutions on all that for a single AR. I didn't get any silver out from the nitric solution even after a day of leaving copper in to cement. So ok I took all the filtration from the batches and filters and incinerated then into AR. Filtered solution added ice and sodium metabisulfite to percipitate the gold. I knew some gold was in solution from a stannous test. After a few hours or so I looked at it and these crystal formation are dropping out. (See photo) does anyone know what is dropping out so I know what to do with it? I.e. run thru nitric again to seperate and then thru AR to get gold out. Or if this is something other then silver or gold. I wouldn't think it's silver cause silver would have come out at the nitric phase of dissolution. I've just never had this reaction with metabisulfite to percipitate gold before.

It may be lead chloride which would have dropped out when you added the ice. Hopefully, you waited after the ice and filtered out the lead before adding the smb.

 

[Yggdrasil]

My idea to inquart is because i think there are other contaminates in the gold. It's greenish silver color. Maybe some iron i didn't add sulfur i don't have any at the moment.

Inquarting is done to bring the Gold to 6 karat so the Gold do not protect the other metals.
This means that you should know the Gold content before you do it.
And Silver is the best as Silver needs just one quarter of the Nitric than Copper do.
It should not be done haphazardly, as always one need a plan for this too.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Ok so I ran a few batches of gold filled, burned and processed my filters I have built up and processed nitric waste i been pouring over some gold colored chalices mark international silver co. in a collection pot and processed the other stock pots for any waste. Did several nitric dissolutions on all that for a single AR.
Can you elaborate this a bit? To me it seem unclear.
I didn't get any silver out from the nitric solution even after a day of leaving copper in to cement.
A day may be to little depending on the conditions.
You need it to be acidic so make sure the pH is lower than 4 ish,
and it woks best with stirring or bubbling air.
So ok I took all the filtration from the batches and filters and incinerated then into AR. Filtered solution added ice and sodium metabisulfite to percipitate the gold.
You are supposed toadd Ice and then filter until crystal clear, then you add SMB to drop the Gold.
I knew some gold was in solution from a stannous test. After a few hours or so I looked at it and these crystal formation are dropping out. (See photo) does anyone know what is dropping out so I know what to do with it?
Running it through Nitric again wont do much other tan dissolving it and then dropping it out again.
We can not answer what it is, it is either from the base metals
or the chemical (read SMB) you put in.
Add a bit of water and heat it to see if it dissolves, if it do, pour off the liquid to another container.
Th Gold should be in the bottom as a fine powder.
I.e. run thru nitric again to seperate and then thru AR to get gold out. Or if this is something other then silver or gold.
It can not be Silver as Silver forms Silver Chloride in AR and it drops out, it is not soluble in any acid.
I wouldn't think it's silver cause silver would have come out at the nitric phase of dissolution. I've just never had this reaction with metabisulfite to percipitate gold before.

Comment inside the quote in bold.

 

[Emryst]

Inquarting is done to bring the Gold to 6 karat so the Gold do not protect the other metals.
This means that you should know the Gold content before you do it.
And Silver is the best as Silver needs just one quarter of the Nitric than Copper do.
It should not be done haphazardly, as always one need a plan for this too.

Yeah I know the reason for inquarting. But I will not know the actual karat of the melted gold because i mixed so many sources. My goal was after AR having close to 999 gold from all the different nitric runs. But for some reason it is contaminated for and as such i dont know how much contaminate or what contaiminate is present. So melt test inquart if needed. The button could come out as a low karat and inquarting isn't needed just make shot.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yeah I know the reason for inquarting. But I will not know the actual karat of the melted gold because i mixed so many sources. My goal was after AR having close to 999 gold from all the different nitric runs. But for some reason it is contaminated for and as such i dont know how much contaminate or what contaiminate is present. So melt test inquart if needed. The button could come out as a low karat and inquarting isn't needed just make shot.

The art of inquarting is to bring the Gold to 6 karat. Not 4 or 5 as the lower it gets the finer the Gold particles become.
One mught wnd up with particles so fine that the use long time to settle.
If you melt it to a button you can use test acid to estimate the karat.

 

[Emryst]

The art of inquarting is to bring the Gold to 6 karat. Not 4 or 5 as the lower it gets the finer the Gold particles become.
One mught wnd up with particles so fine that the use long time to settle.
If you melt it to a button you can use test acid to estimate the karat.

Yeah I melted into a button and did the acid test on scratch board 14k disolved after a minute but 10k won't disolve. So i gonna guess it some where around 10k now. Maybe a little higher. I'll inquart and make some shot for dissolution. I'm struggling with my smelter at the moment think the cooler weather is causing the smelter to draw more amps to heat up and reach melt temp and it keeps popping my breaker. My smelter is 1400w with a draws of around 12 amps and I only have a 15 amp outlet available atm. I don't have a torch setup so to inquart I'll have to figure something out for the winter season.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yeah I melted into a button and did the acid test on scratch board 14k disolved after a minute but 10k won't disolve. So i gonna guess it some where around 10k now. Maybe a little higher. I'll inquart and make some shot for dissolution. I'm struggling with my smelter at the moment think the cooler weather is causing the smelter to draw more amps to heat up and reach melt temp and it keeps popping my breaker. My smelter is 1400w with a draws of around 12 amps and I only have a 15 amp outlet available atm. I don't have a torch setup so to inquart I'll have to figure something out for the winter season.

You mean it was the opposite, right?
10k dissolved and 14k stayed?

 

[Shark]

On average, foils melted from gold filled run 12k to 14k. I have seen one that held up to 14k test but disappeared with 18k test. These were from gold filled that was ran in AP for several weeks (testing methods). I have always ran GF in nitric and distilled water. The foils then go straight to AR with no problems.

 

[Yggdrasil]

On average, foils melted from gold filled run 12k to 14k. I have seen one that held up to 14k test but disappeared with 18k test. These were from gold filled that was ran in AP for several weeks (testing methods). I have always ran GF in nitric and distilled water. The foils then go straight to AR with no problems.

I guess that they are thin enough for that.
If you melt it that will not work.

 

[Emryst]

I have always ran GF in nitric and distilled water. The foils then go straight to AR with no problems.

This is my method of running GF as well. I haven't had many problems except wanting to know what the constant tan mud is that comes out of GF during nitric and AR does disolve it either. Even incineration burns it but comes back in AR. I have not found an answer yet.

 

[Martijn]

Yeah I know the reason for inquarting. But I will not know the actual karat of the melted gold because i mixed so many sources. My goal was after AR having close to 999 gold from all the different nitric runs. But for some reason it is contaminated for and as such i dont know how much contaminate or what contaiminate is present. So melt test inquart if needed. The button could come out as a low karat and inquarting isn't needed just make shot.

Inquarting is done when there is too much silver in the gold to have it dissolve in AR.
You don't have any silver in that filter, so don't inquart.
I don't have more time now but try to answer questions and stop trying things and then ask.

 

[Emryst]

Inquarting is done when there is too much silver in the gold to have it dissolve in AR.
You don't have any silver in that filter, so don't inquart.
I don't have more time now but try to answer questions and stop trying things and then ask.

I know i have less experience here but isn't inquarting to bring down the karat of the gold so the nitric can penatrate the gold to get to the silver & base metals. Not so AR can get pass the silver to disolve the gold?

 

[Yggdrasil]

I know i have less experience here but isn't inquarting to bring down the karat of the gold so the nitric can penatrate the gold to get to the silver & base metals. Not so AR can get pass the silver to disolve the gold?

The reasoning for inquarting is to dilute the Gold so the Nitric can get access to all that is not Gold.
If there is no Silver the passivization
from the Silver Chloride won't
happen and one can go straight
to AR.

 

[Shark]

This is my method of running GF as well. I haven't had many problems except wanting to know what the constant tan mud is that comes out of GF during nitric and AR does disolve it either. Even incineration burns it but comes back in AR. I have not found an answer yet.

How do you prep your GF before starting into nitric?

 

[Emryst]

The reasoning for inquarting is to dilute the Gold so the Nitric can get access to all that is not Gold.
If there is no Silver the passivization
from the Silver Chloride won't
happen and one can go straight
to AR.

See what ur saying. My course of action to just melt into a button all that I had and test for gold karat with acid scratch test was mainly from seeing a sreetips video when he was showing how putting karat gold into AR will create a mess hard to seperate. So in the video he just took all the filters and gold and made a button tested for karat and inquarted and ran the shot thru hot nitric and then AR for a clean refining. That is what I am doing. And while there was not silver i think it was contaminated with copper. Im making that assumption given the color of the melt i got (See pic) i had trouble keeping the smelter getting to full melt temp without popping breaker so the the pour was rough. I already tryed to see if nitric would disolve this without inqaurting but it won't. I'm sure more experienced persons on here could have fixed this quicker cheaper and with less struggle. I have learned some things thru this process and that is the point isn't it.

 

[adam mizer]

Your tripping breaker bothers me as it is stating a safety hazard.
The smelter oven reference 12 amps, did you test this with an amp clamp?
Does the 15amp circuit run other circuits in the home.
Can we update the panel with a dedicated circuit and receptacle?

 

[Martijn]

I know i have less experience here but isn't inquarting to bring down the karat of the gold so the nitric can penatrate the gold to get to the silver & base metals. Not so AR can get pass the silver to disolve the gold?

What yggdrasil said.
Silver creates a silver chloride layer on karat gold in AR, preventing the gold from dissolving. If there is no silver, you don't need to inquart to dissolve all the silver with nitric.
It's all becaise of the silver to HCl reaction.

Another question, after incineration, did the salts reappear in AR when adding HCl or when adding HNO3?

 

[Darkthirty]

Your tripping breaker bothers me as it is stating a safety hazard.
The smelter oven reference 12 amps, did you test this with an amp clamp?
Does the 15amp circuit run other circuits in the home.
Can we update the panel with a dedicated circuit and receptacle?

Breakers do wear out.

 

[adam mizer]

Breakers do wear out.

Yes the thermal alloy strip can wander out of spec after many overloads.
OR:
The oven plug connection can deteriorate on the internal connection terminals.
The oven kanthal or what ever resistive heating wire element can have bad connections at terminals or control(s) switch.
All sorts of issues to look into.
Should be easy to check out.
Personally i would look into the issue and find out whats happening.