Have I lost my gold completely from a newbie

[Bedouin]

First time here and done some reading, I tried to to use aqua regia to dissolve my gold and it went well, it was mainly from computer "junk". when it came to precipitating it due to my lack of understanding chemistry and reading difficulties I used Sodium Bicarbonate instead of Sodium Metabysulphite. No, I am not stupid, thou you might think so, I just have trouble in reading.

So what I have ended up with a blue liquid, some blue 'jelly' and no precipitated gold. My question is have I lost the gold or can someone tell me in clear and simple terms how I can recover it.

I have read all I could but think my mistake is a first. I prefer to work with aqua regia as I have it worked out fairly well to make it up. Any help available will be very well received believe me.

 

[butcher]

\Bedouin,

Read the rules and the threads by Harold about studying, before you get banned for breaking the rules.

You will probably continue to loose your gold, why because you think this is easy, something you will learn from reading a bit, then mixing up some deadly acid an adding metal, hoping you understand enough to refine gold, well it does not work that way, from your description of what your trying, you do not know anything, you just made a mess.

For me, or any one else here, to help you, you would have to realize you have a lot to learn before you even think of trying this, there are basic principles to learn this skill, there is a certain chemistry and basic principles, to learning to recover your gold, and then a certain chemistry to learning to refine, you will need to learn the basic principles first.

I will try to help you get started, first make sure you do this outside, do not breath the fumes, add a little HCl to acidify your mess, add the acid carefully as it may try to foam out of the vessel, once acidified, put a large clean piece of copper metal in it, cover with a loose lid, and stir the copper bar every now and then, after a day, brush off anything on the copper bar back into the solution rinse this bar with water and seal it in a plastic bag, let the solution sit overnight and decant solution, dry and save powders, label them possible value.

Put a piece of iron in the solution to cement copper and other base metals, after no more copper cements, decant the solution and bring its pH up to around pH 9, let the metal sludge settle, and decant solution from powders, iron and base metal sludge, dry sludge, and add enough acid to the solution to neutralize it at PH 7 let it settle again, decant the salt water from sludge, dry sludge, the salt water should be clear and safe to dispose of properly.

Read dealing with waste in the safety section.

Put away your acid before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Download Hokes book (in the book section), and read it until what is says makes sense to you.
This way you will get a basic understanding and you will have a chance to learn to recover and refine gold.

You do not use aqua regia the way you did, you dissolved all of the metals with gold, making a mess, and the gold has to be recovered before you can refine it.

You will not learn this if you do not spend time reading.

There is too much you would have to learn.
You cannot learn it by asking questions, you would have to have at least a basic understanding before the answers would make any sense to you,.
You would not learn it even if you watched someone do it, because you would not have the basic knowledge or understanding they had of what they were doing and why, you would have to understand the basic principles before it would make sense to you.

You cannot learn by just reading a little.

This is a science that takes a lot of understanding, simple things can mean you will not get gold, simple mistakes and you are spending your time loosing gold making dangerous messes,
To learn skill you must commit yourself and do a lot of reading to get that understanding.

Down load Hoke’s book and study.

If you do not want to read, sell your scrap and find something easier to learn.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=19074


I hope this helps you.

 

[Bedouin]

Thanks Butcher for your help. My daughter and I spent two days on this site alone trying to find any reference to the same error being made previously. Having spent about 50 hours on searches with my daughter on the internet we found nothing but maybe you could be more constructive and helpful if you knew the answers that I don't know or knew of an internet site that has eluded me. I have already read the rules by Harold and asked because with over 50 hours of searching the internet we found no answer there either. I doubt Harold would object to someone asking a question and so banning them from the site. If this site isn't about advancing the knowledge on recovering gold etc then you might take that up with Harold yourself as to his aims but, as it claims, "Refiners helping one another" is it's motto.

I am not stupid, I have brain damage causing dyslexia, I made a genuine mistake in buying the wrong product to use to precipitate the gold and asked for any help from someone who wished to spare a bit of time. Not to waste my time suggesting that I will continue making the same mistake. Maybe you don't understand dyslexia, though I went shopping for Sodium Metabysulphite I read "that" on the packet which was actually Sodium Bicarbonate, that doesn't make me an idiot, it is a symptom of dyslexia I live with.

That said, thank you for your fourth paragraph, my daughter and I will follow that idea and 'slash it away' maybe to be recovered at a future time. Since posting I have a chemist friend who told me that Sodium Metabysulphite is the cleaning agent used by most beer home brewing kit suppliers and sure enough he was right. So now I have the right chemical ready for my next batch and continuing to expand my knowledge, don't know it all but I did say I am a newbie.

Cheers

Bedouin

 

[Harold_V]

Thanks Butcher for your help. My daughter and I spent two days on this site alone trying to find any reference to the same error being made previously. Having spent about 50 hours on searches with my daughter on the internet we found nothing but maybe you could be more constructive and helpful if you knew the answers that I don't know or knew of an internet site that has eluded me. I have already read the rules by Harold and asked because with over 50 hours of searching the internet we found no answer there either. I doubt Harold would object to someone asking a question and so banning them from the site. If this site isn't about advancing the knowledge on recovering gold etc then you might take that up with Harold yourself as to his aims but, as it claims, "Refiners helping one another" is it's motto.

It's VERY important that you understand my posture on this subject.

Will I ban a reader for asking questions? Yep! I damned well will. It all depends on what is being asked. Allow me to explain.

I have made it perfectly clear that the average person will have no success in refining if some time isn't dedicated to learning some of the basics. Here, readers do that by reading Hoke's book, which was masterfully written in such a manner that a moron (like me) can learn to refine, even without having a knowledge of chemistry. What that does is move the reader up to a level of understanding, so worthy questions can be asked, and the answers will have some meaning.

If a new reader starts with questions that make it obvious that they have avoided doing as they've been told, yep, they're gone. I don't want people like that on this board. They're a danger to themselves, and to others, and drag down the overall quality of the board. You can draw a parallel by considering how you'd feel if you were thrust in a class of first grade children. That's how bad it can be, and has been. The entire purpose of the board had been defeated, with page after page of unworthy questions being posted by those who tend to have an entitlement attitude and are unwilling to do the least thing towards helping themselves. They wanted to be spoon fed the very information they'd have learned by doing as they were told. We don't work that way, and if the attitude of those who contribute permit it to work that way, you'll see a wholesale change of names on the board. None of us who have experience are willing to deal with such a thing, as it's a waste of our time.

I have some very worthy advice for you. Do NOT search the internet, seeking knowledge in refining precious metals. We have been inundated with fools who have done so, and have come there to show us how clever they are, or to ask how to bail out of the horrible mess they've created by following the advice tendered to them, often from youtube.

There are people on this forum with years of practical experience in the refining industry. These people oversee what is posted, and offer challenges to what is often misinformation. You will not be lead astray here, as that would also defeat the purpose of the board.

A parting shot. We help those who help themselves. They do that by doing as they've been told---to read the forum, and to read Hoke's book. If they do not follow that advice, their stay here is often very brief, unless they choose to lurk, and never post. If they post stupid questions, that they have not studied becomes obvious.

Harold

 

[niteliteone]

(snip)
I am not stupid, I have brain damage causing dyslexia, I made a genuine mistake in buying the wrong product to use to precipitate the gold and asked for any help from someone who wished to spare a bit of time. Not to waste my time suggesting that I will continue making the same mistake. Maybe you don't understand dyslexia, though I went shopping for Sodium Metabysulphite I read "that" on the packet which was actually Sodium Bicarbonate, that doesn't make me an idiot, it is a symptom of dyslexia I live with.
(snip)
Bedouin

Sorry my 2nd wife suffered "Dyslexia" since childhood and that (above) is Not a Dyslexic mistake.
With dyslexia a person jumbles the order of the letters, Not substituting ALL the letters of words. That's just "impatients" and/or laziness.
If you are unable to SAFELY use a fairly safe chemical, what are your plans when you mistakenly add something like ammonia to silver or gold in solution :?:
You might want to find a safer hobby before this one causes harm to your daughter.

We try to stay specific on using proper names for chemicals we use. If you are having this much trouble understanding what has to be correct, you might die before the operator can connect you to 911.

Generally I stay quiet on topics like these, but this is one hobby where Dyslexia will cause death and fast :shock:

 

[Pantherlikher]

Bedouin

I fully understand your feelings on the answers you've gotten so far....
Justifying your mistake with your dissability is no justification for anything...

You and your daughter spent 50+ hours scouring for the specific answer to your mess... How much time was spent learning to do what you have done to this point?
Alot of missinformation is everwhere so take half that time spent as wasted and more time to relearn the right way to learn to do what you want.

You made a worse then newbie mistake and the mess is not good.
Harold says it like it is for the reason of safety. Don't confuse his words as pompus or snoody. They are the way it is.

He also fully explained what you need to do with your mess. Cement what you can from it and dispose of it in a SAFE manner so as not to hurt anyone or anything. That mess, that's the only thing you can do.

Take heed to Harold's words and swallow your pride long enough to think things through and you will find he is extremely helpful to your success in this field.

Good luck and hopefully, someday we all get to see the picture of your first gold baby.

B.S.
...Pride and admitting wrong will destroy mankind in the end...

 

[galenrog]

Bedouin,

I have been left with dyslexia and a few other small problems due to stroke. Understanding my new "normal" makes me more cautious with ALL multi step procedures. I will have these challenges the rest of my life. Does it mean I get to make mistakes with impunity, expecting to have others bail me out? NO!

My advice?

Read Hoke. Read Hoke again. Study Hoke. Perform the experiments she carefully lays out until you understand the process.

Take heed when a moderator gives you advice. Moderators volunteer their time and expertise. Many have more decades experience than some of us have months in the field of refining.

Use the search function of the forum before you ask questions. It may take a while to dig, but nearly every question that can be asked has been asked. When in doubt, store your solution and study.

I apologize to any forum member that sees this post as a rant. My intent is to show that comprehension difficulties require additional preparation to be successful.

I wish you success.

Galen

 

[Bedouin]

Thank you all for your replies, I simply asked my question because I couldn't find any answers anywhere. I didn't ask to aggravate anyone on this site. A desire to correct my mistake if possible was what I was interested in. And thank you Galen, the biggest hurdle is to do a multi process task in the right order with constantly rechecking, it makes the task slower but frustration is overcome when the expected result is in the finished task at hand.

I was medically diagnosed with a form of dyslexia and prior to that was normal, whatever that is. For those that live with someone with dyslexia it is much harder for you than to be the one afflicted with it, I take my hat off to you.

We have downloaded Hokes book but not able to print it out in the right way to form a book so we are reading it as the download. I'm sure it won't answer my question I asked but will find it very interesting and helpful. However a member of the forum has made personal contact and with his help and advise I am hopeful that the gold will be recovered.

For those concerned over safety we take all the precaution possible although I can't afford the cost of a fume extractor we work out in the open and use a fan to blow any fumes away from us. The nearest neighbor is a couple of miles away. I made a mistake by not taking my daughter to buy the precipitant, i freely admit to that, and I have learnt from that mistake. To not make a mistake once in a while in learning is to not learn at all. Part of getting it right is to sometimes get it wrong and learn from the experience. My interest in gold goes back more than 60 years when I would go fossicking and more recently to find that gold is being used for land fill. Am I thinking of making money from it, No, I won't break even in my lifetime. But I do enjoy what I aim to do to the level of smelting to gold buttons, not to refine to pure gold ingots. That is for people with much more expertize than I have.

I am not assuming the project is easy or simple, where we have got to now has been a challenge, but a very interesting and enjoyable one for us both. I take note of those that are using the same acids as we are that they are dangerous, we knew that already, the error was not with the acids, it was with the precipitant, a commonly used cleaning and sterilizing agent that I have found a supplier locally from a 'beer home brew kit' shop.

Thank you for your time
Cheers
Bedouin

 

[butcher]

Bedouin,

While reading Hokes book take note that the gold is recovered before being refined, the base metals are removed from the gold in the recovery process and gold is not put into solution with the base metals.
Note also the aqua regia process is the refining stage, where we put gold into solution.
As a general rule we do not use aqua regia in the recovery stage.

Also note the metals that can give problems in solution, and how we may have to deal with these.

You did not upset anyone here that I know of, we were just trying to help you get on the right track, jumping into this without understanding is not only dangerous but foolish, there is a lot you will need to understand to do it safely and to get your gold.

I am glad someone is going to help you get started, by reading Hokes book and studying you will make his and your task go much easier.

 

[JHS]

My 35 year old son has Dyslexia,he has had it all his life.
I did not know just how severe it was until I started teaching him how to drive a big truck.
He was 21 at the time.We were on a country road in kentuckey.the sign showed a curved arrow for a sharp left curve ahead,.
He turned and looked at me and said"I WONDER WHICH WAY WE WILL GO"
To this day you have to tell him to turn to the drivers side or the passangers side.
North south east west on a compass means nothing.The letters m and w ,b and d are always a problem.
people with out this disability,have no idea what it is to live with much less having to figure out whitch way the road goes.
He is a very smart man,but he too reads words completly wrong.There is a lot more to this disability than most people think.
john

 

[sharkhook]

Just for the new people like my self.

I have have spent WAY more time than 50 hours in reading this forum alone. That does not include the books, (Hoke) and other things added by the members here. 50 hours of reading won't even scratch the surface of what I wish to do. Recovery of metals from scrap electronics's. Refining is still a long step off. If your new, as I am, get the recovery down first, the refining will come in time. Find some things (silver flatware, old jewelry, what ever you have on hand) and work with it. Then expect to lose it. Lesson learned!

As for dyslexia, that is a tough road to deal with. And I do feel sorry for anyone that has to live with it. As a side note, there are electronic reader's, even software, that read to you. (I used them for some time to learn basic programming).

 

[Bedouin]

I have have spent WAY more time than 50 hours in reading this forum alone. That does not include the books, (Hoke) and other things added by the members here. 50 hours of reading won't even scratch the surface of what I wish to do.

I was specifically looking for any reference to my error and not reading all the posts. I have still looked further and if there is a post that covers that topic I can't find it. It seems very possible that nobody else has made the same mistake I made.

Thanks for the tip about the reader, I have found it is inbuilt into my computer and it is a 'God send'. I even have it reading Hokes book to me, I would often read a paragraph several times and still not follow it, with the reader program it is so clear hearing it that it makes sense the first time, plus it saves so much time. Finding the reader has really been a key to a door that has opened up a multitude of uses with my computer, it is on par with my spell checker that allows other to read what I write. So thank you very much.

As for my mix, I am slowly working my way through it with my daughter and recovering the gold, slowly and carefully.

Cheers
Bedouin

 

[butcher]

Bedouin,
You have not made any kind of special mistake, almost everyone beginning to learn this skill makes the same mistake you did, they think this is simple, and begin trying to do things they do not understand yet, they make a mess and wonder what happened.

Put up the chemicals, forget about getting gold, but continue to collect scrap.
Study that is your answer to your questions, that is what will put pure gold in your melting dish.

Forget about trying to get the gold, that will come easily after you get the education you need.

Any man can learn anything he wants to, or can do most anything he puts his mind to, he just has to want to bad enough, and be willing to do what it takes to get it done.

You can do this, you just have to work at it, and not give up, reading and learning is what it will take, to get this job done, as long as you do not give up you will accomplish your goal.

Anything that is worth anything, takes work, learning to refine metals is no different, any way you look at it gold is a precious metal, and is highly valued because of the work involved in getting it, nothing about getting gold is easy, if it was there would be no value in the gold.

Keep studying so you too can melt pure gold in your dish.

 

[niteliteone]

I have have spent WAY more time than 50 hours in reading this forum alone. That does not include the books, (Hoke) and other things added by the members here. 50 hours of reading won't even scratch the surface of what I wish to do.

I was specifically looking for any reference to my error and not reading all the posts. I have still looked further and if there is a post that covers that topic I can't find it. It seems very possible that nobody else has made the same mistake I made.

Thanks for the tip about the reader, I have found it is inbuilt into my computer and it is a 'God send'. I even have it reading Hokes book to me, I would often read a paragraph several times and still not follow it, with the reader program it is so clear hearing it that it makes sense the first time, plus it saves so much time. Finding the reader has really been a key to a door that has opened up a multitude of uses with my computer, it is on par with my spell checker that allows other to read what I write. So thank you very much.

As for my mix, I am slowly working my way through it with my daughter and recovering the gold, slowly and carefully.

Cheers
Bedouin

Thank you for finding a solution that will definitely help you through-out your life and not just here on the forum.
The part I left out of my last post was that I too suffer with a learning disability similar to what you suffer, but unlike my "ex-wife" I looked for and found a way to work and learn to better myself, instead of throwing my disability out as an excuse for my failures.
You are doing good and I apologize for my rough post earlier. 8)

 

[sharkhook]

I was specifically looking for any reference to my error and not reading all the posts. I have still looked further and if there is a post that covers that topic I can't find it. It seems very possible that nobody else has made the same mistake I made.

Thanks for the tip about the reader, I have found it is inbuilt into my computer and it is a 'God send'. I even have it reading Hokes book to me, I would often read a paragraph several times and still not follow it, with the reader program it is so clear hearing it that it makes sense the first time, plus it saves so much time. Finding the reader has really been a key to a door that has opened up a multitude of uses with my computer, it is on par with my spell checker that allows other to read what I write. So thank you very much.

As for my mix, I am slowly working my way through it with my daughter and recovering the gold, slowly and carefully.

Cheers
Bedouin

Glad It is helping! I have volunteered in the past to help dyslexic kids learn to read using it. It helps them learn even more than it helps them to read, but education in any form is education.

 

[Bedouin]

Amazingly I have refined 192 grams of 24 ct gold and 70 grams of silver from the mess. I am really pleased with the result. Thanks a lot to those that helped. It was invaluable and we were both tickled to see the gold, it made it all worthwhile.

People with disabilities don't need knocking, they just need a bit of help.

 

[nickvc]

Well done and keep studying, that's a lot of gold from computer junk as you called it originally so you must have been processing considerable amounts of material and if that's the case I can understand your need to recover those values sucessfully.

 

[sharkhook]

Glad it has worked out so well. Congratulations on the success!

 

[niteliteone]

Amazingly I have refined 192 grams of 24 ct gold and 70 grams of silver from the mess. I am really pleased with the result. Thanks a lot to those that helped. It was invaluable and we were both tickled to see the gold, it made it all worthwhile.

People with disabilities don't need knocking, they just need a bit of help.

Are You not the person that put it out as "Your" excuse :?:

 

[Bedouin]

Amazingly I have refined 192 grams of 24 ct gold and 70 grams of silver from the mess. I am really pleased with the result. Thanks a lot to those that helped. It was invaluable and we were both tickled to see the gold, it made it all worthwhile.

People with disabilities don't need knocking, they just need a bit of help.

Are You not the person that put it out as "Your" excuse :?:

That is your term used Niteliteone and you are misquoting/misrepresenting me. If you replace 'excuse' with 'explanation' it is spot on, and Yes it is my explanation.

But your point is what? Has it to do with my question? If you can't help with my question then maybe you don't have the knowledge to be helpful, maybe.