hcl-cl-----i have those 2 chemicals----

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

arthur kierski

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 10, 2008
Messages
1,119
Location
são paulo---brazil
i need some help-----perhaps ,with these chemicals,i will not recuperate ,au,pd and ag from metallics powder containing these pms and pb,sn and some cu--------------------------------------------------------------------------
this powder was incinerated,and ready for recuperation----is it possible? please ,help and sugestions-----

Arthur
 
i dont realy understand your post, but from what i understand , i personaly never use HCl/Cl on anything else than pure gold flake, i have used it on pins and it was a total lose of time and chemical. maybe depending on how much of each metal you have would be different... maybe if you leach as much base metal you can with HCl/CuCl, than leach the pm with HCl/Cl ,but i think you wont get the silver and if you get AgCl it will endup in the filter with other bad stuff
 
my post,was :can i recuperate pms from metalics powder containing pb,sn,au,pd,ag,using only hcl-cl?
Ericrn,sorry that my first thread was really confusing-------But by your answer, i deduced that it will be a waste of chemicals and time----thanks anyway for your answer----
regards
Arthur

i will make the same question but instead of hcl-cl, using a ssn(saturated saline nitric) solution?
thanks
Arthur
 
One way I would try to go about this problem.
Metallic powder containing Au,Ag,Pd, and Cu,Sn, Pb, possibly some other base metals.

If in powder form already it is easier to work with than an alloy.

I would do this in a ceramic casserole dish, leaving the powders in the dish, removing warm or hot liquids as needed after powders settle well, trying to complete whole process as much as possible with powders remaining in dish throughout the process.

Incineration can help, it can help to oxidize some of these base metal powders, making some easier to dissolve and others less likely to be dissolved by acids.

After incineration, a boil in HCl will dissolve many of the base metal oxides, boiling water washes will help to remove soluble salts of many of these base metal chlorides.
(Test the HCl washes with SnCl2 and DMG for value, precipitate them with copper if needed).

Notes: The lead chloride is soluble in boiling hot water, but crystallizes out in cold water as a white precipitant. silver chloride is an insoluble white powder, but the cottage cheese can take time to settle (giving it time to settle in the hot solution you can leave it behind as you decant the dissolved lead in the hot water washes), you may pick up some Pd in these washes (test for them with DMG).

Wash remaining powders with a caustic solution of sodium hydroxide, just strong enough to neutralize the powders and convert any base metals to oxides and hydroxides,(also converting silver chlorides to silver oxides), good stirring is important, crushing lumps of powders, letting the powders settle and washing with boiling hot water, to remove NaCl salts that form, from the chlorides that were involved previously in the powders, repeat washes till clear, but not losing the valuable powders as you decant the salt water solutions.

With the washed powders in the dish to dry on low heat, raising the heat only as needed to dry, checking on them and adjusting heat as needed to prevent bubbling and splashing of powders or values, note even after powders are dry they can sometimes convert to a fuse syrup again and splash as bubbles of the syrup pop, if this happens lower heat so as not to boil this syrup, until powders dry again, you can raise heat as needed as powders dry, they may need crushed again if the fuse into lumps or a cake, a ceramic pestle can crush them easily if done before the cake is cooked hard, when dry on high heat, and with a torch, roast the crushed fine powders to a glowing red hot, to drive off the previous acids as gas. keep stirred well to expose to air or oxygen during the roasting process, when red hot you can remove heat and stir a little more to give them plenty of oxygen.

Lower heat to cool; now these powders can be treated in a dilute nitric acid solution without problems of the tin.

I think you can figure out the process from here.

Now lets say you do not have nitric acid, so lets look at proceeding without it:

we can use HCl and 3% H2O2 to remove some more copper or any remaining base metals, solutions color is a good indicator we are dissolving them, we will be converting silver back to insoluble chloride that will need to settle, we may pick up some pd (but much of our pd may be insoluble after forming oxidized Pd in the roast above (always a good idea to check solutions anyway).

After removing base metals with our copper II Chloride leach, copper or any soluble base metals iron or other base metals, we can wash remaining powders well, (note: sometimes if we use heat in this process we can form insoluble iron hydroxide red rouge powders, these are not a problem as they become insoluble to acids), good hot water washes will help remove lead chlorides in the hot wash.

Now we can be left with our gold powders, mixed with some silver chlorides, possibly Pd or Pd Oxides (which may be hard to get to dissolve into solution), from here we can go to our HCl/ NaClO (sodium hypochlorite, bleach) leach to dissolve gold, any palladium that will, and leave most of the silver chloride and insoluble Pd oxides or insoluble PGM with our sand in the dish...
again you can figure it out from here.
 
Butcher,thank you very much for your detailed explanation(it will help me very much)--- i have 28lbs of this powder----and have more 400lbs that i will incinerate after obtaining some results with your explanations--

really i have an idea of what i asked ,but i am trying to find an easier way to eliminate base metals(specially tin)-------
as i had good results in extracting pms with ssn solutions,i will give a try(less work) with ssn------if my results fails, i will with great pleasure use your explanations and do it the way that you explained so well-

this powder is from a friend that for many years scrapped cellphone boards and ram boards--and left all this scrap behind------
thanks and regards to you,that once more helped me in this journey,
Arthur Kierski
 
arthur kierski,
I rarely get a chance to thank you for all of the help you have given me, by reading your posts and valuable information you have provided our forum, I will take that chance now.

Thank you Arthur.
I hope you are enjoying an nice cigar and a cool drink with that women who holds all your money :lol:
 
Arthur thinking back to a post some time ago by 4metals it appears that hydrochloric and chlorine will dissolve gold and PGMs if in small particles, it's advantage is the lack of noxx to deal with, the gold can be precipitated leaving the other values to be cemented I guess but the chemistry is above me but the lack of nitrous fumes cant be all bad and I'm fairly sure it's easier to remove the PGMs from that type of solution than AR.
 
Nickvc,i read 4metals thread also----what i am trying to do,is to find an easier way to extract pms from this type of material--------i extracted pd,pt and part of rh,from cats,with good results,using hcl-cl----
i will use hcl-cl on the powder(making the powder thinner) and see what happens( i will try to ignore the sn,although it may form sncl2 and colloidal gold)-----lets see------
in one of my threads a few months ago ,i described with results,using ar on this powder,and obtained 1,5grams of gold per kilo of powder----i used 500grams of powder,added 10 times quantity of water,filtrated ,and added excess metabisulfite(10grams),it precipitated 0,75grams of gold----the powder left in the filter paper(agcl and other chlorides),i added nh4oh to complex the silver----to the liquid free of gold i cemented with iron powder and then once again used ar or nitric to obtain the pd
there are many ways to skim a cat--i hope
thanks and regards
Arthur
the experience done with ar,was done before .idid not have at that time 400lbs of metallic powder
 

Latest posts

Back
Top