help please unwanted reaction in hcl with aluminum mix alloy

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Onfireassay

New member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
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4
hi i had a couple attempts successfully i might add, in mixing hcl 37% with some hard drive platters just to remove the foil and everything went smoothly , except reaction day no4 where i added some hcl from new suppliers other than what i was using and i left the reaction vessels from 4-5 hours , to 7 hours and all i have now is the whole mixture is somekind of jelly foamy whiteish and little blueish grey on the second reaction vessel beaker, and the whole contents the undissolved platters fused in the bottom in one piece and stuck on the bottom of the beaker, i tried on one to dissolve the stuff with some water but no luck also i tried with some hcl but no luck the foamy jelly liquid just increased in size no change on the viscosity and the foils are trapped in the stuff, please help with identifying the stuff,
i will post pic soon as i get my ipad charged,
 
read the safety section to find out about treating wastes to make sure they are safe

what did you hope to gain by putting hard drive platters in HCL?
im new here and know little but as far as I know they are mainly aluminium coated with a magnetic substance.
I would sell the platters as scrap aluminium
 
by placing Aluminium in HCL you are creating Hydrogen Gas, i would hope you do not have any flame or electrical devices close by. it will ignite or worse.

(KaBoom)
 
Aluminum being above hydrogen in the reactivity series of metals, dissolves in the acid HCl, in doing so hydrogen gas will evolve (which could become dangerous in the wrong environment, hydrogen and oxygen can become explosive, with an ignition source), without acid (hydrogen) the aluminum chloride becomes gelatinous mess of aluminum chloride, that easily forms aluminum hydroxides along with the chloride (one reason we try to keep aluminum out of our solutions).

Some hard drives types do contain a tiny bit of platinum in the cobalt /carbon based / oil layer along with the hard (hard carbon based and oil layer, I forget the real composition here), this thin coating is on the aluminum, glass, or ceramic disk which is the major part of the drive.

The platinum content is so small, I have not heard of anyone being successful at recovering any Pt from the drives, I know I have tried unsuccessfully, and just ended up using the drives to treat waste with, but even that was a failed experiment because of the gooey aluminum chloride and how hard it is to get to dry.

Getting the foils off the aluminum is fairly easy, but then you have to roast the cobalt/carbon based /oil foils, this is another major danger as the cobalt dust and fumes are toxic and can be a deadly pollutant.

Then even when if you get this far, you will lucky to be able to extract enough platinum to even get a positive test for the metal, much less recover any noticeable precipitant of the metal even from a hundred pounds of disk platters.

Basically I agree if you have aluminum hard disk platters sell them for aluminum and find a material worth spending your time on to process, where you have a chance to recover a metal from.

Just because a mountain has some gold in it does not mean you will be able to get enough gold to warrant the trouble, cost, and danger of doing any mining in that mountain.
 
hi guys thank you very much for the assistance, it was my sons insisting that they wanted to make out the foil because they saw it on youtube,i know its sad but tell that to a 16 year old who thought they found the mother lode, in the first three reactions this did not happen i only had the acid and the dissolved aluminum in a black powder dissolved in the acid, and my son and his friend was taking out the foils of the beakers after it was washed with water 5 times in and let them dry out in the open,but the last reaction the results were totally different i think as butcher rightly commented that the insoluble gunk is aluminum chlorides, and aluminum hydroxides, here are the pictures i promised you and i think butcher was right, but now how do i remove the fused platters on the bottom so i can at least save my labware ? should i use any base to disolve it may caustic sodium or caustic potasium or? any suggestion?
also i have to note the amounts of hydrogen that was produced was well away of any electrical devices or any flamable or anything and it was done at a field of 10 hectares with no other vegetation and no people around except us where we had all the necessary protective gear and full body coveralls
 

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and additionally the results from the previous 3 reactions the little foils 20.7 grams of them around 7.44% of the weight of the platters 300 grams , what happens now? just throw them away? and please someone could tell me how do i clean my beakers off the fused metals in the bottom?
my deepest and sincerest regards to all of you that tried to answer my question even if it was tried and tested before 1000 times, i know it looked stupid to you, and yes i am rereading the hokes book, and now i am thinking to target dental laboratories to take their rubbish clippings to refine them,
and a big congratulations to the site for their plentifull source of free information and willing people to answer our humble concerns, thank you for being there, and i hope you will be here for many years to come to help us and point us to the right direction, bravo
 

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Try decanting solution from your beaker and adding some more HCl and water, aluminum like tin is more soluble if the solution is on the acidic side of the pH scale.

With the dangers of cobalt and chromium, I say discard the foils and forget the experiment, find a safer project to work on with the 16 year old son and his friend.

I assume you would need tons of foils to get anything of value. and even then I do not know that you would not spend more on reagents, and equipment than you could get in values from the foil.
 
butcher said:
Try decanting solution from your beaker and adding some more HCl and water, aluminum like tin is more soluble if the solution is on the acidic side of the pH scale.

With the dangers of cobalt and chromium, I say discard the foils and forget the experiment, find a safer project to work on with the 16 year old son and his friend.

I assume you would need tons of foils to get anything of value. and even then I do not know that you would not spend more on reagents, and equipment than you could get in values from the foil.

I think Butcher is dishing up some very good advice here. All is not lost though, from this experience you gained a very valuable lesson.... Don't believe everything to see on Youtube.
 
very good butcher congrats, is in order i will show the answer to my son to understand it youtube videos are not always true,and that reading all the info here is better value for money that trying and believing youtubers who want to do something stupid to make a buck out of the number of viewers, a some ewaste recycling would be a nice hobby, for both my son and his friend with such a sheer energy flowing through them its a good idea to channel it into removing gold plated stuff out of phones and computers, this will curb their insatiable thirst to find the quickest ways (you tube wise) to acquire masses of gold with little or no effort and no further knowledge of how the reaction will progress and how it will evolve merely following the little or no instructions of safety that youtube videos demonstrate and dealing with chemicals just because they are easy to acquire,and not thinking what an accident might bring, yet again thank you for the quick replies and accurate ones, i will try cleaning the beakers tonight, thank you and all the forum that deals with situations like this everyday
 
Onfireassay,
Make no mistake about it this hobby is extremely dangerous, we deal with many reactions that are dangerous to breath, substances that can be very poisonous, and dangerous to our environment, not to mention the surrounding area you work in with the very corrosive acids and fumes, in chemistry there are risks of explosive substances being made, with the metals and chemicals we deal with this is all possible.

This could be something you and your son could work on together, and give you a chance to teach him responsibility and safety, young people tend to believe they are invincible and may try stupid things, especially if uneducated in the dangers involved.

They also tend to be impulsive, and many times have a short attention span, especially if it comes to study. With this Hobby you can help to make the research fun, and help him to learn to research for a wanted goal, which can be a very valuable tool for him throughout his life.

You will need a place to work safely. A Lab, this could be nothing more than a table outside, or a shed with a fume hood, it can be simple or as fancy as you wish, but it needs to be safe, and have an area to work to avoid the fumes, and avoid spilling or contaminating the area, have a place to store dangerous acids, and solutions you tend to leave.

There are many projects you can work on, like building a fume hood or many of the tools you will need, learning the chemistry and how to make many of the chemicals you need, learn the reactions of metals and acids, and how to test for metals in solutions when you can no longer see the metal or the metal is no longer a metal but an ionic salt of that metal.

Spend time learning to deal with waste, this may be one of the more important lessons, as when the EPA, DEQ. or some other government agency or authority comes to your home to inspect your lab, and what your up to you can show them you are working responsibly and know what your doing and that you are doing it safely for yourself, your son, and others around you and even those far from you.

You and your son have a lot to learn, Hoke's book of coarse is where to begin, and working with the experiment's there.

Simple items to begin with like memory fingers, then working up from there to harder materials, studying each process of recovery then refining...
working with simpler items will give you experience with less troublesome materials, making learning the processes easier seeing and learning the reactions from them.

Probably one of the neatest experiments you can work on with your son would be with silver, It can be fascinating to see a clear solution of silver nitrate, that looks like water, add a bar of copper to see the solution turn blue and cement a gray silver powder from solution that can be washed and melted to a button of silver.
Or have a clear solution of AgNO3 and add some table salt to another vessel of water, both clear solutions of dissolved metals one of sodium metal as an ion of sodium chloride, the other clear solution of silver metal as an ionic silver nitrate, mixing the two clear solutions becomes milky white and then a cottage cheese of silver chloride settles, after a few more chemical processes to convert the silver chloride to metal then you melt it to silver...

You can get an education yourself, and enjoy helping your son with his education, it is my belief with the forum, and its resources, you can gain an education that not many college's could teach you, that is if there was any college that can teach a practical science or skill like this, and not just some theory about some of the things we do.

Keep on top of your list safety and education, the precious metals will come in due time, and you and your son will know what to do with them...
Oh yes having fun safely, and responsibly will also be a big part of that.
 
Probably one of the neatest experiments you can work on with your son would be with silver, It can be fascinating to see a clear solution of silver nitrate, that looks like water, add a bar of copper to see the solution turn blue and cement a gray silver powder from solution that can be washed and melted to a button of silver.
Or have a clear solution of AgNO3 and add some table salt to another vessel of water, both clear solutions of dissolved metals one of sodium metal as an ion of sodium chloride, the other clear solution of silver metal as an ionic silver nitrate, mixing the two clear solutions becomes milky white and then a cottage cheese of silver chloride settles, after a few more chemical processes to convert the silver chloride to metal then you melt it to silver...

Watching silver cement is extremely interesting and it is very hard to not just sit there and watch it. For a younger person with an interest in this type chemistry it would be a great starting point, and not overly difficult with a bit of study.
 
Oh shark I disagree :lol: :twisted: :lol:

The study is the most interesting part. it is where you profit the most. it adds the spice to the experiment.
To be able to understand the reactions going on, and being able to predict them...
Silver in a dangerous nitric acid, making it disappear to a water clear liquid (if you do not have copper involved, in that case a blue would show up as the copper ions color solution blue).
Ag(s) + 2HNO3 + (H2O) --> AgNO3(aq) + NO2(g) + 2H2O

Bubbling the deadly gas evolved into ice water and a little hydrogen peroxide.
For safety, and to make back some of your nitric acid.
3NO2(g) + H2O --> 2HNO3 + NO
2NO(g) + HNO3 + H2O --> 3HNO2
HNO2 + H2O2 --> HNO3 + H2O

Making a cement of silver metal, form silver ions.
2AgNO3(aq) + Cu(s) --> Cu(NO3)2(aq) + Ag(s)
then from cemented silver powder to shiny metal.
Ag(s) --heat--> silver metal

Two clear solutions that can look water clear you cannot see metal in either solution, when mixed together a white precipitant forms of a metal salt.
AgNO3 + NaCl --> AgCl + NaNO3
Maybe making some more nitric from the byproduct of your above reaction.
H2SO4 + 2NaNO3 --> 2HNO3 + Na2SO4
we could continue carrying this further, using our byproducts here, and make copperas used to precipitate gold from the sulfate byproduct but lets not get too far off topic here.

then we have conversion of the silver chloride with a metal displacement chemical reaction.
2AgCl(s) + H2SO4(aq) (H2O) + 2Fe(s) --> FeCl2(aq)+ FeSO4(aq) + H2(g) + H2O(l) + Ag(s)

Or
Converting the silver chloride with a base (the opposite of an acid), and an organic chemical (sugar) reaction.
2AgCl(aq) + 3NaOH(aq)+ C6H12O6(s)--> 2Ag(s) + C6H11O7,Na (aq) + 2NaCl(aq) + 2H2O

Or any of the other reduction methods to convert the silver chloride to elemental metal...

What fun would be seeing the chemical reactions if you have no understanding of what is happening, or what you were actually doing, and why, that's where the real beauty is...

The beauty and value is in the education, seeing the shiny silver in the melting dish is just the big bonus...
 
That is just a "bit" of studying. :lol:

Of course one can get pretty old by the time they understand that, and a lot older by the time they understand all of the chemistry involved. It is also why I very seldom use the formulas involved, I still have to work a lot more to feel comfortable that I won't make a critical mistake at a critical time. The knowing what is going on is the big reason to keep studying and not just saying mix this with that. That is what gets to many people in to many problems. The more I understand the "what is going on" part, the fewer problems I seem to have. And, I will be the first to admit I still have a long ways to go yet just to start learning this refining thing.

But you still have to admit, watching silver cement is pretty interesting in it's self. :mrgreen:
 
I tried recovering the Pt from approximately 12 plattens extracted from 5 or 6 hards drives. The results? lol The picture below shows three numbers:
1, 2, 3

Above each number I placed several drops of the resultant liquid from three different platinum reclamation projects/experiments using AR.
Below each number I placed several more drops of the solution and added several drops of SnCl2. Can you guess which one represents the 12 plattens?

Sure was a lot of work for not even a trace of Pt.
 

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geedigity said:
I tried recovering the Pt from approximately 12 plattens extracted from 5 or 6 hards drives. The results? lol The picture below shows three numbers:
1, 2, 3

Above each number I placed several drops of the resultant liquid from three different platinum reclamation projects/experiments using AR.
Below each number I placed several more drops of the solution and added several drops of SnCl2. Can you guess which one represents the 12 plattens?

Sure was a lot of work for not even a trace of Pt.

Thus the reason no one tries to recover the PM's
 

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