Help with pins

[ashir]

Thanks yggdrasil and butcher
Aqua reigia is batter if I get a lot HCl, I can get nitric and sulfuric but hard to find HCl.
A strange thing I find is
Sim jacket covers partially plated. Not magnatic. Not dissolving in HCl, not in nitric not in sulfuric. I test 3 pieces and put them in 3 acids.
Well every one has a weak point and yes " pins are mine"
Cell will be batter idea but pins in mobiles are inside plastic and too much time consuming to saperate them from plastic.
Looking for HCl, will try Aqua regia,
Butcher I read some where on forum to put some nitric and wait few weeks to oxidise base metals ,
What you say about this?

 

[butcher]

HCl should be plentiful and cheap, I would keep looking for a source.


you could always improvise and make caveman muriatic acid surely you can find rock salt
2NaCl + H2SO4 = 2 HCl + Na2SO4
distilling off the gas into ice-cold water, or bubble the gas into the flask of a cold very diluted nitric solution with the metals in the flask cut or in small pieces which will react more easily with a large surface area, leaving you with the sodium sulfates for other uses...

 

[ashir]

HCl should be plentiful and cheap, I would keep looking for a source.


you could always improvise and make caveman muriatic acid surely you can find rock salt
2NaCl + H2SO4 = 2 HCl + Na2SO4
distilling off the gas into ice-cold water, or bubble the gas into the flask of a cold very diluted nitric solution with the metals in the flask cut or in small pieces which will react more easily with a large surface area, leaving you with the sodium sulfates for other uses...

Awesome idea, never think to make it by myself? Will try this, the matter is to dissolve the pins in ar take so much free HCl.

 

[ashir]

If I use 50/50 HCl + water and small increments of nitric.
What if nitric increases thank HCl?

 

[butcher]

I do not understand the statement I use 50/50 HCl + water.
HCl azeotropes at around 20% HCl and 80% water.

Basically, it really does not matter how dilute the acid is if you use heating and evaporation in your processes the water is removed by heating and the acid concentrates.
If you need stronger HCl (up to azeotropic) you can evaporate the water off the dilute HCl Acid to concentrate it up to around 20% HCl concentration.

When you get nitrate ions or acids higher than the HCl ions in the solution we call it reverse aqua regia,
HCl will become the limiting reagent for the reactions to take place to completion or move to the right side of your chemical equation in this case you will need more HCl to dissolve gold as a chloride salt, the nitric may be able to budge an electron from a gold atom but it will not share a bond with three chlorides (because you have no free chlorine or chloride ions in solution for a newly formed gold ion to bond to (with no place for the electron to go or no chloride to bond with you) you no longer are moving electrons or dissolving gold.

So basically unless you add chloride ions (even table salt NaCl at this point would do to provide chloride ions), you will not dissolve any more gold, nitric will be hard to eliminate without the additions of HCl or some acid even H2SO4, the base metals will make nitrate salts when evaporated, we need the acid to convert them back to nitric and then with the heat drive the gases of the acid from solution thus de-NOx-ing the solution...

 

[ashir]

That's the logic.
So the simple concept is to add much HCl so that small increments of nitric as reach to 1 3rd of HCl also its quantity should be enough to dissolve all the matels at same time!

 

[anachronism]

That's the logic.
So the simple concept is to add much HCl so that small increments of nitric as reach to 1 3rd of HCl also its quantity should be enough to dissolve all the matels at same time!

I'm not sure that you're understanding what people are telling you. If you did, you'd not be suggesting that we are trying to get to 1/3 Nitric.

 

[butcher]

Because you read hokes book and are not just wasting our time asking questions that you would not understand the answer we gave until you have read her book, Hoke stated it takes approximately 1 fluid ounce (29.57 ml) of 68% HNO3 and four fluid ounces ( 118.28 ml)of 32% HCl to put one ounce of gold into solution.


Note:
Here she is working with karat gold and gold from all different kinds of sources, and so even here, she is recommending using more nitric than you need to do the job, but she also explains how to evaporate three times to remove the excess nitric later in the process...

So we will not normally use as much nitric as she calculated.
So we should be able to dissolve an ounce of gold (31.103 grams of gold) in less than 5 ounces (150 ml) of an acid solution...

So for each ounce of gold, we can add 118ml 32% HCl and with heat adding the HNO3 in slow increments and drops at a time, until the gold is converted to salts dissolved I the liquid (but we should not have to add as much HNO3 as the 29.5 ml of 70% nitric we calculated) if you do, you know something is wrong... or you know you are using more than needed...

I figure about 3.8ml 32% HCl per gram of gold and expect to use approx 0.95ml of 70% HNO3 to get that gram of gold into solution

Read Hokes and study, Study the forum, this has been explained in much better detail in the past and you get much more informed by studying than asking a member to explain this again something he has tried to explain to almost every new member we get...
You will not get the details from asking questions that you will get from doing the study yourself, we do not have the energy to write a book to answer the same question to thousands of new members questions.
So you do not get all of the information unless you do the work to study.

 

[ashir]

Oh yes, there must be free acid to hold the base metals. Use as low nitric as possible.
Reading hooks is always helpful as reading it every time explores new things.
The reason was to ask is AP mathod was not suitable for me at the moment and even many time it was said to be not best mathod for pins
Watching some videos of regular refiners, all use direct HCl, small increments of nitric,
They do its do e,
I do it gone wrong,
One thing I point out that I use so less HCl (to extra nd use of HCl) that's not enough ,
2nd I delay so long after adding nitric, and let the solution wait some time for days to go further, ( its my ganuine error)

 

[ashir]

So here the gold.
4 kg mixed pins. Divided in two batches
Process: (first batch)
Use battery acid with small increments of nitric.
Solution positive for silver.
Alot White powder, Here lead makes problem

So filters incinirate. Dip in HCl.
White powder,
Wash incinirate
Dip in HCl , small increments of nitric
Solution turns black and assurely gold was cemented back on base metals, filtered , tested for gold, negetive

Again add HCl, small increments of nitric , same happen
Re processed same happen. ( error was to use less acid)
Finally added 10 liter HCl for 2kg pins and small amount of nitric,
got the solution positive for gold

2nd Bach
Add 12liter HCl. Small increments of nitric. Untill all metals dissolve. Filtered tested positive for gold

The both process are not suitable for pins. (But the sources were limited to only this process)
I was looking for my eroor, reading the topics on pins, was forcing to know your materail, copper, brass,nickle,coper,iron, steel . ! Out of that you have to use too too much acids for little little values, this not profit me but teach me to not do this again, untill there is no other source avail. Thanks every one to help me

 

[butcher]

Glad to see you recovered some gold from your efforts.

It is good to see the gold, but I am not as interested in seeing pictures of the gold, as I am of seeing pictures and getting tips on how to treat the waste solution properly from extracting the gold from these salts, that is what I wish to learn more of, see more discussions of how the toxic solution is handled after the gold is melted...
keep studying and you will get better at these skills.
Keep studying and keep yourself and your family healthy so you can enjoy the gold.

The author of the book is not HooK, Her name was Miss Calm Morrison Hoke or C, M. Hoke, the book is Hoke's book not the Hooks book.

Read the title of her book to get her name right. Read the book to get your gold right.

 

[ashir]

Glad to see you recovered some gold from your efforts.

It is good to see the gold, but I am not as interested in seeing pictures of the gold, as I am of seeing pictures and getting tips on how to treat the waste solution properly from extracting the gold from these salts, that is what I wish to learn more of, see more discussions of how the toxic solution is handled after the gold is melted...
keep studying and you will get better at these skills.
Keep studying and keep yourself and your family healthy so you can enjoy the gold.

The author of the book is not HooK, Her name was Miss Calm Morrison Hoke or C, M. Hoke, the book is Hoke's book not the Hooks book.

Read the title of her book to get her name right. Read the book to get your gold right.

Thanks for correction. It was a side process while I am interested in ewaste manually saperate parts. Especially in IC chips and mlccs.
Small scale , to learn the metals as basic experiments.
And yes it's hoke's book that's the key to learn basics. Thanks,
There was less experience on metals that were used in pins,( find some brass,copper. Steel even some kovar)
At the time concentrating related to ores,
For next time to process pins , sulfuric cell is to be said best and also find a geo's post about sodium thiosulphate leach
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=19973&p=204853#p204853

But will take ores to be preffered as I am in there from 3 years, thanks

 

[solarnevo1]

Maybe you should use more nitric acid. Take few pins from lot and trow it in hot nitric. After some time pin's will disolve and if copper is cemented on gold surface you will be able to see gold flakes. If you have this case filter solution and add more nitric. For 800 gr of pins you will meed atound 3,2 l of nitric and 3,2 l of water.