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Martijn
Well-known member
Thats a very good way to protect yourself against harmfull fumes. I used one like it at work years ago calibrating benzene instruments. It needed some training to use.
Make sure you place the inlet of the air compressor in a place where it will not suck in any fumes coming from your fume hood outlet or any other possible sources of polluted air. Chemical or organic. The wind direction is key factor here.
Even the best filters have their saturation point. And the filter in this one is only to catch dust particles, i believe.
Also use an air compressor that produces clean air, without oil mist or exess water condensate from the pump.
Position the air line so you won't trip and fall moving chemicals around or having to get out fast in case of emergency.
Lay the air line straight to avoid loops closing the air supply by folding double if you pull on it. Or when someone stepping on a loop. Or tripping over it while you're holding hot acid. You are kind of closed off from the outside world while working with it you won't notice people around you well.
Try it out first to get a feel for it before using it for real. Put it on, turn on the air. Take it off. Practice. It can be claustrofobic if you can't get the ariflow on right away or when it stops for some reason. Like a dude in the factory pulling your line from the supply. Like i had once. There are more scenarios to consider like power outage etc.
Take it off in clean air, so make sure you can get there without the line getting caught.
Follow the safety instructions that come with it and you'll be fine.
On the other hand, minimalize exposure to hazardous substances by using closed reaction vessels and scrubbing through a flask with neutrailzing agents under a slight vacuum.
Like gloves, they are not ment to be covered with chemicals during use. Only to protect against accidental spils and then replaced or cleaned.
Work clean, systematic and safe.
Martijn.
Make sure you place the inlet of the air compressor in a place where it will not suck in any fumes coming from your fume hood outlet or any other possible sources of polluted air. Chemical or organic. The wind direction is key factor here.
Even the best filters have their saturation point. And the filter in this one is only to catch dust particles, i believe.
Also use an air compressor that produces clean air, without oil mist or exess water condensate from the pump.
Position the air line so you won't trip and fall moving chemicals around or having to get out fast in case of emergency.
Lay the air line straight to avoid loops closing the air supply by folding double if you pull on it. Or when someone stepping on a loop. Or tripping over it while you're holding hot acid. You are kind of closed off from the outside world while working with it you won't notice people around you well.
Try it out first to get a feel for it before using it for real. Put it on, turn on the air. Take it off. Practice. It can be claustrofobic if you can't get the ariflow on right away or when it stops for some reason. Like a dude in the factory pulling your line from the supply. Like i had once. There are more scenarios to consider like power outage etc.
Take it off in clean air, so make sure you can get there without the line getting caught.
Follow the safety instructions that come with it and you'll be fine.
On the other hand, minimalize exposure to hazardous substances by using closed reaction vessels and scrubbing through a flask with neutrailzing agents under a slight vacuum.
Like gloves, they are not ment to be covered with chemicals during use. Only to protect against accidental spils and then replaced or cleaned.
Work clean, systematic and safe.
Martijn.
Martijn
Well-known member
With a P3 mask, make sure you have a light blue stripe on the colour code on the filter. That protects against NOX.
If there is no blue stripe, you have created a very dangerous situation giving a false sense of safety. You think all fumes are being filtered, but the most dangerous ones are in fact let through. Thats what you might smell. Like an old diesel engine smells.
You may have been to close to reactions for too long thinking you were safe.
What is the product name and codes on the filter? Take a picture and post it. Please stop using it untill uou are sure it filters NO, NO2 and NOX. Assuming that your using nitric.
Depending on the size of the reactions and how long you have used the filter cartridge, it might already have saturated long ago, loosing its function.
Read this pdf for instance. Look at the color legend.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Supplementary/Documents_and_Downloads/4294985731/1033.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwjvjeSct6jmAhXSZVAKHY1eDEEQFjAJegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0UwO_Ppqw3vYVHQwCcNNgr
Also look at the capacity of your filter. The thing is there is no way to calculate the time when you have reached the limit. Depends on exposure levels and time. If you smell something bad, take off the mask and exhale and inhale in clean air. Dont breathe the fumes that are caught in the mask and filter. Dispose of the cartridge
Prevention of fumes escaping, even in the open air when possible is where you should start first.
Martijn.
If there is no blue stripe, you have created a very dangerous situation giving a false sense of safety. You think all fumes are being filtered, but the most dangerous ones are in fact let through. Thats what you might smell. Like an old diesel engine smells.
You may have been to close to reactions for too long thinking you were safe.
What is the product name and codes on the filter? Take a picture and post it. Please stop using it untill uou are sure it filters NO, NO2 and NOX. Assuming that your using nitric.
Depending on the size of the reactions and how long you have used the filter cartridge, it might already have saturated long ago, loosing its function.
Read this pdf for instance. Look at the color legend.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.honeywellsafety.com/Supplementary/Documents_and_Downloads/4294985731/1033.aspx&ved=2ahUKEwjvjeSct6jmAhXSZVAKHY1eDEEQFjAJegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw0UwO_Ppqw3vYVHQwCcNNgr
Also look at the capacity of your filter. The thing is there is no way to calculate the time when you have reached the limit. Depends on exposure levels and time. If you smell something bad, take off the mask and exhale and inhale in clean air. Dont breathe the fumes that are caught in the mask and filter. Dispose of the cartridge
Prevention of fumes escaping, even in the open air when possible is where you should start first.
Martijn.
Martijn,
I just wanted to comment on how helpful and informative you have been in your posts.
I just wanted to thank you my friend.
I just wanted to comment on how helpful and informative you have been in your posts.
I just wanted to thank you my friend.
Martijn
Well-known member
Thanks butcher, that means a lot to me coming from you.
I try to help and give a little back when ever i can. As a safety advisor I cant help myself when people are unaware of some dangers. I have to comment.
Reading all of the threads here has given me new view on what not to do.
And I'm willing to review someones safety measures if needed.
Prevention is the best way.
Be safe Y'all.
Martijn.
I try to help and give a little back when ever i can. As a safety advisor I cant help myself when people are unaware of some dangers. I have to comment.
Reading all of the threads here has given me new view on what not to do.
And I'm willing to review someones safety measures if needed.
Prevention is the best way.
Be safe Y'all.
Martijn.
Thanks martijn.
I line the inside of my mask with what man filter papers.
I only really work outside if using AR; even hcl really.
But I can smell normal smells through the mask if the filter paper if removed.
I have seen my doctor recently (about arthritis) and I mentioned it to him. He assured me I would have been in to see him, or A and E rather if even the slightest damage had occurred.
Would the mask I have bought protect me working with AR?
Kindest,
I line the inside of my mask with what man filter papers.
I only really work outside if using AR; even hcl really.
But I can smell normal smells through the mask if the filter paper if removed.
I have seen my doctor recently (about arthritis) and I mentioned it to him. He assured me I would have been in to see him, or A and E rather if even the slightest damage had occurred.
Would the mask I have bought protect me working with AR?
Kindest,
I also understand that the ppm of the levels I work with would be way below the threshold of understood damage to humans. (I work outside and never get within range of hot AR - I use an extension cable to switch the power off and leave it for 15-20 minutes).
However, I would not take that as a green light; hence why I have purchased a self contained oxygen mask.
I have a 30 day return warrant on it and paid 189.00£ so if you think there is a better option please do let me know.
I trust the attached link is helpful to people.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK201482/
However, I would not take that as a green light; hence why I have purchased a self contained oxygen mask.
I have a 30 day return warrant on it and paid 189.00£ so if you think there is a better option please do let me know.
I trust the attached link is helpful to people.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK201482/
This is just my opinion, so you can dismiss it if you so desire.
First, there is no level below the threshold of human damage. It's all cumulative. A minor exposure may not cause any noticeable symptoms, but some damage will have been done. Continue to make those little exposures and it will add up.
Your mask is not a "self contained oxygen mask". It is a self contained breathing apparatus. It may be a minor distinction, but you're getting breathable air, not oxygen.
The most important thing Martijn has shared is that you need to "minimalize exposure to hazardous substances by using closed reaction vessels and scrubbing through a flask with neutralizing agents under a slight vacuum.
Like gloves, they are not meant to be covered with chemicals during use. Only to protect against accidental spills and then replaced or cleaned."
Do not rely on a mask! Do not rely on gloves! Reduce the hazards as much as possible through "engineering controls", meaning "methods that are built into the design of a plant, equipment or process to minimize the hazard". Masks, gloves, and other PPE are the last resort to avoid exposure to the hazards we are exposed to. If you avoid the exposure through those engineering controls, your mask, gloves, etc. should never have any contact with any hazardous materials.
Dave
First, there is no level below the threshold of human damage. It's all cumulative. A minor exposure may not cause any noticeable symptoms, but some damage will have been done. Continue to make those little exposures and it will add up.
Your mask is not a "self contained oxygen mask". It is a self contained breathing apparatus. It may be a minor distinction, but you're getting breathable air, not oxygen.
The most important thing Martijn has shared is that you need to "minimalize exposure to hazardous substances by using closed reaction vessels and scrubbing through a flask with neutralizing agents under a slight vacuum.
Like gloves, they are not meant to be covered with chemicals during use. Only to protect against accidental spills and then replaced or cleaned."
Do not rely on a mask! Do not rely on gloves! Reduce the hazards as much as possible through "engineering controls", meaning "methods that are built into the design of a plant, equipment or process to minimize the hazard". Masks, gloves, and other PPE are the last resort to avoid exposure to the hazards we are exposed to. If you avoid the exposure through those engineering controls, your mask, gloves, etc. should never have any contact with any hazardous materials.
Dave
Martijn
Well-known member
Thanks Dave, thats exactly the point. (I) Don't use a mask, (I) Use safety glasses and gloves and (I) work systematically to avoid gases and spills to be released. (I) Have neuralizition liquid available for emergencies. (I) Work in a fume hood and close it when possible. (I) Do not start without knowing the risks and how to react if one actually occurs.
I trust my eyes and nose and when I get a small whiff of NOX I first exhale,close the container and move away to a safe area before inhaling. My setup allows for this.
I do all my nitric reactions in a closed erlenmyer flask and bubble the NOX trough H2O2 assisted by a vacuum to scrub most, and actually regain some HNO3. I use a check valve on the inlet to avoid back flow of H2O2 into the reaction flask once it cooles down.
Read the MSDS and act accordingly:
How to protect yourself from say chlorine gas: look up MSDS, read the safety measures.
But knowing when e.g. chlorine gas will come from your reaction, and how to minimize it, will be your first and best protection.
Having the means ready and in place to turn off say energy supply or close off the reaction vessel is step two.
Avoid a runaway reaction (apply only known and tested processes & prodecures, and when experimenting; only with small batches, in over-over-over dimensioned vessles), and you won't have to worry about containing the spill from a boil over.
What I'm saying if you don't trust your reaction, or don't have enough experience or equipment (scrubber vessels/fume hood/beaker cover glass\etc) to make sure it's safe, perhaps not performing the reaction is the safe option.
Personal safety equipment can only be the last measure to bring your risky buisiness within acceptable limits.
Safety is performing a task with a known, calculated risk, and knowing how to protect yourself.
Not diving in with a mask and let's see what happens.
The choice is yours if you are doing the work yourself, its another thing if you are employing! Then you have to protect your workers against the known risks. This level of knowledge must be continuously updated and changes communicated to employees.
Be safe.
Martijn.
I trust my eyes and nose and when I get a small whiff of NOX I first exhale,close the container and move away to a safe area before inhaling. My setup allows for this.
I do all my nitric reactions in a closed erlenmyer flask and bubble the NOX trough H2O2 assisted by a vacuum to scrub most, and actually regain some HNO3. I use a check valve on the inlet to avoid back flow of H2O2 into the reaction flask once it cooles down.
Read the MSDS and act accordingly:
How to protect yourself from say chlorine gas: look up MSDS, read the safety measures.
But knowing when e.g. chlorine gas will come from your reaction, and how to minimize it, will be your first and best protection.
Having the means ready and in place to turn off say energy supply or close off the reaction vessel is step two.
Avoid a runaway reaction (apply only known and tested processes & prodecures, and when experimenting; only with small batches, in over-over-over dimensioned vessles), and you won't have to worry about containing the spill from a boil over.
What I'm saying if you don't trust your reaction, or don't have enough experience or equipment (scrubber vessels/fume hood/beaker cover glass\etc) to make sure it's safe, perhaps not performing the reaction is the safe option.
Personal safety equipment can only be the last measure to bring your risky buisiness within acceptable limits.
Safety is performing a task with a known, calculated risk, and knowing how to protect yourself.
Not diving in with a mask and let's see what happens.
The choice is yours if you are doing the work yourself, its another thing if you are employing! Then you have to protect your workers against the known risks. This level of knowledge must be continuously updated and changes communicated to employees.
Be safe.
Martijn.
Martijn said:
Education and gaining an understanding is key to your safety.
Normally it is not the dangers you are aware of that are the problem it is the dangers you do not know about.
Many safety devices are useless and could pose more of a danger if not used properly.
Martijn
Well-known member
Jmk88, the mask you've bought will protect you against inhaling all gases, you are feeding it with clean air ( hopefully). It will also protect you against spills directly over your head.
The mask may even protect you(r head) against small explosions and fire and small projectiles shooting away from said explosions.
It does not protect against performing poorly set up and ill prepared tasks.
Knowing what you do is key. Thinking your'e safe with protective gear can be more dangerous than knowing you're not really safe without wearing protective gear.
Martijn.
@ Butcher: exactly what I meant with following known, carefully layed out procedures and knowing the reactions is more safe and more predictable than going into the unknown and experimenting with new things. other precautions are needed in that case.
The mask may even protect you(r head) against small explosions and fire and small projectiles shooting away from said explosions.
It does not protect against performing poorly set up and ill prepared tasks.
Knowing what you do is key. Thinking your'e safe with protective gear can be more dangerous than knowing you're not really safe without wearing protective gear.
Martijn.
@ Butcher: exactly what I meant with following known, carefully layed out procedures and knowing the reactions is more safe and more predictable than going into the unknown and experimenting with new things. other precautions are needed in that case.
You’re all angels.
Thank you.
I’m not playing around with large quantities or materials I haven’t understood.
I do not just rely on information here, I look for all sources.
I was reading the story on here about the guy with the mercury... so tragic. He must have been so scared.
Thank you.
I’m not playing around with large quantities or materials I haven’t understood.
I do not just rely on information here, I look for all sources.
I was reading the story on here about the guy with the mercury... so tragic. He must have been so scared.
Martijn
Well-known member
Good to hear you are doing the research. Just make sure it is a reliable source your info is coming from and check other sources.
The power in the forum here is the filter everything goes through. False statements are corrected very fast and backed up by science, evidence and references. New statements and inventions are also double checked by others often adding improvements the process.
And please share your experiences with the mask here.
The power in the forum here is the filter everything goes through. False statements are corrected very fast and backed up by science, evidence and references. New statements and inventions are also double checked by others often adding improvements the process.
And please share your experiences with the mask here.
Hi All,
I will receive my recently purchased airvisor mask this week. I have also bought compressed air cylinders which I will keep in a backpack which I will wear when working.
I have set up a closed reaction chamber using 3.3 borosilicate flasks, tubing and jointing. All made from 24/40 male and female connection.
I have two closed circuits which I will use; one for recovery and refining and one for distilling.
I plan to continue working outside, and would like any input as to the safety levels of this set up. I will be mainly working with small quantities of hcl and AR (less than 800ml).
I’ve had comments that I’ve gone a bit overboard from people I know. I myself disagree and am currently studying to attempt to build a mechanical fume system. This is some way off so for now, the above system is what I have.
Self contained oxygen and closed reaction system. As I say, any comments on the safety levels and or risks of this set up would be greatly appreciated.
Kindest Regards
I will receive my recently purchased airvisor mask this week. I have also bought compressed air cylinders which I will keep in a backpack which I will wear when working.
I have set up a closed reaction chamber using 3.3 borosilicate flasks, tubing and jointing. All made from 24/40 male and female connection.
I have two closed circuits which I will use; one for recovery and refining and one for distilling.
I plan to continue working outside, and would like any input as to the safety levels of this set up. I will be mainly working with small quantities of hcl and AR (less than 800ml).
I’ve had comments that I’ve gone a bit overboard from people I know. I myself disagree and am currently studying to attempt to build a mechanical fume system. This is some way off so for now, the above system is what I have.
Self contained oxygen and closed reaction system. As I say, any comments on the safety levels and or risks of this set up would be greatly appreciated.
Kindest Regards
Martijn
Well-known member
Can you post a picture of your set up? Very little to go on based on your description.
Are you going to use heat on the reaction? And what are you using as scrubber?
And what are you distilling? HNO3 or C2H5OH 8)
Are you going to use heat on the reaction? And what are you using as scrubber?
And what are you distilling? HNO3 or C2H5OH 8)
