How do I remove silver from fixer!

[jeneje]

Quick question here, My friend brought over some fixer he used to develope black and white film from his darkroom. What is the best way to remove the silver? My research seems to lead to a silver cell, but i am confuesed about what type of solution to use in the cell, and is the cell the same as gold. I did a search here and found alot about X-Ray film, is it the same process or something different. Can someone point me in the wright direction, or suggest a book or other infor to read, so i can learn this process Troy (my friend) processes film on a daily basis and will give it to me if I can do something with it.

Thanks
Kenneth

 

[Barren Realms 007]

If I remember right the fixer is put in a container with steel wool to recover the silver. The silver cell is different than the gold cell. The silver cell uses 50% nitric/distilled water and the gold cell uses sulfuric acid.

 

[jeneje]

If I remember right the fixer is put in a container with steel wool to recover the silver. The silver cell is different than the gold cell. The silver cell uses 50% nitric/distilled water and the gold cell uses sulfuric acid.

Thanks Barren, I will try the steel wool and see, I have three gallons he brought over, and he has more. One of the half gallons he brought me has a purple sluged in the bottom, don't have a clue to what this is but I will test it and see.

Thanks
Ken

 

[samuel-a]

Add NaOH, dissolved in some water.
It will precipitate Ag₂O, where you can convert to elemental or dircet melting.

 

[jeneje]

Add NaOH, dissolved in some water.
It will precipitate Ag₂O, where you can convert to elemental or dircet melting.

Thanks Samuel, I will do that.

Kenneth

 

[jeneje]

Add NaOH, dissolved in some water.
It will precipitate Ag₂O, where you can convert to elemental or dircet melting.

Hey samuel, How long does it take for the NaOH to precipitate the silver oxide out. Here is what i done, 1 teaspoon NaOH to 1 1/2 cups water still well to dissolve and added it slowly to 2 quarts of fixer. is this close to being right.

thanks
ken

 

[goldsilverpro]

Add NaOH, dissolved in some water.
It will precipitate Ag₂O, where you can convert to elemental or dircet melting.

How did you test it to make sure it was all out?

 

[jeneje]

Add NaOH, dissolved in some water.
It will precipitate Ag₂O, where you can convert to elemental or dircet melting.

How did you test it to make sure it was all out?

GSP, I did not test it, I took the fixer as it came and added NaOH as suggested by samuel. I have no black powder as of yet.

Ken

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

Great heavens,Ken!!!!! Are you sure there is silver dissolved in that fixer?.


Anyway,you have arrived here to find answers,let´s work together.First of all,take a clean copper wire and dip it(for 1 second) into your fixer,What happens?If nothing happens then clean the copper wire and dip it again but this time for 5 seconds,What happens?

What we are doing is trying to know how many silver (if any) is dissolved in your fixer.GSP is a man with a great intuition

Regards.

Manuel

 

[jeneje]

Great heavens,Ken!!!!! Are you sure there is silver dissolved in that fixer?.


Anyway,you have arrived here to find answers,let´s work together.First of all,take a clean copper wire and dip it(for 1 second) into your fixer,What happens?If nothing happens then clean the copper wire and dip it again but this time for 5 seconds,What happens?

What we are doing is trying to know how many silver (if any) is dissolved in your fixer.GSP is a man with a great intuition

Regards.

Manuel

Thanks Juan, I will do this and post results.

 

[samuel-a]

I agree with Juan.

Testing the fixer solution is wise thing to do, before spending time and money.
I apologize for not mentioning that before.

If i ware to test the solution, i would pull a 15-20ml smaple and add a saturated NaOH solution.
The solution should darken after a while, say 30 min... Ag2O precipitate at once if concentration is very high.

Not to say it is better way of testing.... just another one 8)

 

[jeneje]

I agree with Juan.

Testing the fixer solution is wise thing to do, before spending time and money.
I apologize for not mentioning that before.

If i ware to test the solution, i would pull a 15-20ml smaple and add a saturated NaOH solution.
The solution should darken after a while, say 30 min... Ag2O precipitate at once if concentration is very high.

Not to say it is better way of testing.... just another one 8)

Thanks Samuel, I have tested with copper bar and now have a silver white paste forming on the bar and also in the bottom there are black specs. I will wait till there is nothing else forming and I will post pics for you to see.

Thanks
Ken

 

[jeneje]

Update, ok here is what I done, I put a copper bar into the fixer and let set for 3-days, filtered out the solids and here is the pic of what was left. my question is ....is it silver oxide. If so my thinking is to refine in 50/50 nitric solution am i headed in the right direction here, or should i do more reasearch.

Thanks
Ken

 

[samuel-a]

is it silver oxide

No, Copper will remove ("cement" out) Silver from solution in its elemental state.

As far as i know of, Fixer solution contains only silver.
For that reason, i personally, would not introduce another more reactive metal (such as copper/iron/zinc etc'..), it will only contaminate the already pure Silver in the solution.

Were you successful with your small scale test with NaOH?
To your sample, add conc' NaOH solution (dropwise) until it starts to darken.

 

[jeneje]

is it silver oxide

No, Copper will remove ("cement" out) Silver from solution in its elemental state.

As far as i know of, Fixer solution contains only silver.
For that reason, i personally, would not introduce another more reactive metal (such as copper/iron/zinc etc'..), it will only contaminate the already pure Silver in the solution.

Were you successful with your small scale test with NaOH?
To your sample, add conc' NaOH solution (dropwise) until it starts to darken.

Ok samuel, I am at a learning curb here, so let me tell you my thinking on this and please correct me here. Ok i missed up on the first try, not the first time for me. Copper is bad for fixer? So what I need to do if I understand this right is, mix up a conc' solution of lye and add to the fixer slowly till it starts to darken to a gray color. I am assuming as the silver drops out - the solution will turn clear, leaving the silver on the bottom. Then all I have to do is filter and rinse the silver and melt.

Now to my mistake - if I filter the solution I added the copper to, Take the solids and disolve in nitric and re-drop it should produce the silver, is this correct.

Thanks
Kenneth

 

[samuel-a]

if I understand this right is, mix up a conc' solution of lye and add to the fixer slowly till it starts to darken to a gray color.

yes, you are correct.

Now to my mistake - if I filter the solution I added the copper to, Take the solids and disolve in nitric and re-drop it should produce the silver, is this correct.

Humm... yes, this is also correct.
But it will still be less pure then what you drop with NaOH and will need to be electrolytically refined (if high purity is desired).
I don't know if you noticed, it seems to me, that Juan suggested the copper methode as a test, but not as the recovery process of choise.

Have you done the entire lot with copper? or just a small scale test?
By now we learned that i do have Ag in solution.

 

[jeneje]

No samuel, I did a small test smaple of about a quart of solution. Can I put the solids that drop directlly into the silver cell?

Thanks for all your help here.
Kenneth

 

[Barren Realms 007]

No samuel, I did a small test smaple of about a quart of solution. Can I put the solids that drop directlly into the silver cell?

Thanks for all your help here.
Kenneth

You can but it is recomended that you melt your material before you put it into your cell. You will have better results.

 

[Harold_V]

You can but it is recomended that you melt your material before you put it into your cell. You will have better results.

I wholeheartedly agree. When you melt, troublesome substances that may hitch a ride to your cell will be eliminated. One of them is copper oxide, whish is sure to be present. Flux the material when melted, then pour to a cone mold, where the slag is easily separated from the silver. Re-melt and pour an anode. You'll experience discoloration of the borax used to flux---evidence of contaminants absorbed, and kept out of the silver cell. You also eliminate any possible chemical contamination.
The only metal that should be introduced to a silver cell without melting first is questionable quality silver crystals, harvested previously from a silver cell.

Harold

 

[samuel-a]

The only metal that should be introduced to a silver cell without melting first is questionable quality silver crystals, harvested previously from a silver cell.

Amen.