How to make consistent shot - drilled crucible? Slanted wood?

[goldshark]

May sound stupid, but why not make shot, then send them through a set of rolls. More consistent thickness. For the money, maybe cheaper also.

 

[4metals]

That can work if you have the rolling mill but it would be easier pouring long thin finger bars and feeding a bar through the rolling mill rather than many small random thickness pieces of shot. And a motorized mill would be a necessity too!

 

[nickvc]

The height of the drop to the water also makes a difference , try a stainless steel bucket / container and pour your shot from a higher position, this should help flatten your shot into more cornflake shapes.

 

[samuel-a]

Stainless steel butt weld long style elbows welded and X-rayed for weld integrity.

View attachment 52087

That is some cool-looking piece of hardware 4metals!

The nuzzles seem to be fixed in their position. Given that welding twists and pulls the material, how did you adjust all four to converge at the desired spot?

 

[orvi]

If you don´t mind "destroying" one crucible and making not shot, but smaller prills... You can drill fine holes into the top 1/4 of the crucible, then fill in the charge, melt, grab it with tongs and tilt it above water drum - allowing the molten metal to flow through these holes in very thin streams - making small globular shot.

 

[4metals]

The nuzzles seem to be fixed in their position. Given that welding twists and pulls the material, how did you adjust all four to converge at the desired spot?

The nozzles are threaded into a sleeve welded into the donut shaped fittings. The angle of the welded position is about 12.5º from vertical so the streams converge below the donut. The spray nozzles are threaded into the sleeve and tightened so they all are close to forming a square with the fan spray the nozzles generate. That is why I ran the unit outside upside down, to see the spray pattern. In the squared alignment position they converge but leave a small square at the center. I then, after observing this square (in a raincoat!) turned each fitting a fraction of a degree progressively until the slight difference in angle formed a vortex of sort assuring all of the metal poured through was pelted with high pressure water.

 

[samuel-a]

I would be glad to 3D print this unit

 

[Yggdrasil]

I would be glad to 3D print this unit

I’m not sure current print technologies are up to it yet

 

[orvi]

I’m not sure current print technologies are up to it yet

I think it will print the shape OK, but if it would have all specs for high pressure and pass tests... I don´t know. Nowdays you can print few types of stainless without issues, question is, if the sintered material possess strength needed for this hi-end application.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I think it will print the shape OK, but if it would have all specs for high pressure and pass tests... I don´t know. Nowdays you can print few types of stainless without issues, question is, if the sintered material possess strength needed for this hi-end application.

I only see one technology suitable for this, and that is in all practical terms a welding robot that welds Titanium in an Argon chamber.
It uses a thread feed welder, controlled by a computer to fabricate intricate shapes. It is good enough for the aircraft and space industries.
I still don’t know if it would hold for the certification of pressure vessels.

 

[samuel-a]

Wishful thinking i guess

 

[Yggdrasil]

Wishful thinking i guess

The technology I described exists, it's just expensive

 

[hoytSmith]

I'd like to set myself up so that I can make really consistent cornflake, not necessarily shot. The alloy to be melted / shotted is karat gold inquarted with silver.

In practice, if I'm trying to pour cornflakes, I end up long strings, or big chunks. Obviously some of this is practice, but I was never all that coordinated. The practice of mixing the water while trying to pour the molten metal at a uniform speed leaves might as well be ball room dancing on a greased floor.

I need nice uniform cornflakes.

So, I need to invest in building something that will help me. I'm open to suggestions. I can put an overhead stirring motor on the tank I'm shotting in to, no problem. I can also create a second heated crucible that's drilled, again, no problem. My biggest concern is that all of the metal that I melt in the first crucible end up shotted out as cornflake.

Suggestions?

Hi Snoman701: Did you find a solution?

If not...

If 3500psi gets you power and 1750psi gets you sand, what gets you cornflakes? -- or at least gold particles of some consistent size, shape and composition that works for you. I have made platinum shot in a 55 gallon drum -- which is to say I've tried some stuff. There were scald marks in the steel. I tried again with 50lbs of ice, that made the long strips & blobs, not better than scald marks and non-uniform shot. I moved on, I don't make shot, I make wire -- I digress.

Perhaps pouring molten metal into a stream/spray of water is the answer for you, just not at 1750psi. What if it you could use cold water at 50psi or 25psi? If that water were directed into a suitable barrel or drum, the metal would deform and freeze in some way, maybe a way that's useful to you. If the drum were 1/2 filled with ice and water, I suspect your metal would freeze and cool before it reached the bottom. I think I'd start with a garden-hose type spray with a big enough center to allow for being off from your pour spot by a few inches. It's a start.

Your cost, from what I imagine, is your time and maybe 50# of ice. The foreseeable cost of failure is that you have to remelt your alloy. A guide for pouring at a consistent insertion point would probably improve the consistency of your results. A seamless drum would keep you from having to work to get your metal out of drum seams.

 

[grainsofgold]

The problem I see with an atomizer which I have been interested in also for quite some time, is with the metal powder. Its fine and will go and stick so its difficult to retrieve it all.

4 metals ?

Have you ever seen the drum set up with a tube with a closed end positioned below the center of the atomizer down towards the bottom of the drum so that the powder metal is contained and then the tube can be removed to retrieve the powder metal more easily and safely ? How long would the tube need to be 2 feet ?

Several months ago I was at a seminar and there was an owner of a company that does large scale gold, silver and plat metal powders for manufacturing companies. The cost for a single run is $2000- $3000 or more for set up and all - Also he brought up the fact about not easy always in retrieving the powder with minimal loss. So being able to do this in house for smaller quantities and less long term costs would be attractive-

As far as making nice shot go, not cornflakes - I determined I was better off getting a pro graining set up - many companies offer choices- some with induction melters and others like in thus thread where you melt and pour in a recirculating water tank -

GOG

 

[4metals]

The problem I see with an atomizer which I have been interested in also for quite some time, is with the metal powder. Its fine and will go and stick so its difficult to retrieve it all.

When I was using a larger atomizer than the size described, it often took overnight for all of the gold to settle out, that's how fine the powder was. The trick then was to catch all of the pressurized spray and the atomized gold in a large stainless tank with no welded bottom seams. The bottom seams in a 55 gallon drum will trap fines.

The blue 55-gallon drum in the photo I posted was replaced with a stainless steel drum with no seams and the fines trapping issue was solved.

Larger units have much greater pressure so the impact creates smaller particles. A smaller pressure washer will produce fine grain that behaves better and settles quicker. The larger units, are made for producing powders for paste manufacturing. The smaller one in this thread produces particles sized for fast digestion and digestion with Hydrochloric Acid and sodium chlorate. No nitric.

 

[Lou]

When I was using a larger atomizer than the size described, it often took overnight for all of the gold to settle out, that's how fine the powder was. The trick then was to catch all of the pressurized spray and the atomized gold in a large stainless tank with no welded bottom seams. The bottom seams in a 55 gallon drum will trap fines.

The blue 55-gallon drum in the photo I posted was replaced with a stainless steel drum with no seams and the fines trapping issue was solved.

Larger units have much greater pressure so the impact creates smaller particles. A smaller pressure washer will produce fine grain that behaves better and settles quicker. The larger units, are made for producing powders for paste manufacturing. The smaller one in this thread produces particles sized for fast digestion and digestion with Hydrochloric Acid and sodium chlorate. No nitric.

Just for others, they call them sanitary drums and sanitary fittings. I found this out because we had a similar project and little gold BBs would get held up in the crevice so I had to get a SS food grade/sanitary drum.

@4metals...I have had interesting and varied results with chlorate. Sometimes I get ClOx that gives some pretty violent popping, other times nothing much at all. We are usually adding it as a liquid solution by the drumful. I actually much prefer wet chlorine injection!

 

[BGDOCK]

The height of the drop to the water also makes a difference , try a stainless steel bucket / container and pour your shot from a higher position, this should help flatten your shot into more cornflake shapes.

I like to use an old 15 gallon pot ( back from the beer making days )
I leave a garden hose running into thru the handles.
I pour into the pot from four to five feet

 

[4metals]

.I have had interesting and varied results with chlorate. Sometimes I get ClOx that gives some pretty violent popping, other times nothing much at all. We are usually adding it as a liquid solution by the drumful. I actually much prefer wet chlorine injection!

The key with chlorate is temperature, the reaction can get quite hot and run away but with ice it can be kept below 100ºC and it behaves. As long as you are conservative with the chlorate additions.

 

[andu]

So, the running water and wet plank does work, you need to pour slowly , height matters as others pointed, sreetips also puts some ice if he knows it will get warm. Aa thing that I haven't yet seen mentioned here, if your water is too cold (maybe) and if you pour too fast, might explode.
It will take a bunch of testing but it's fairly simple way of getting shot. I never seen that atomizing thing, looks cool .

 

[Darkthirty]

So, the running water and wet plank does work, you need to pour slowly , height matters as others pointed, sreetips also puts some ice if he knows it will get warm. Aa thing that I haven't yet seen mentioned here, if your water is too cold (maybe) and if you pour too fast, might explode.
It will take a bunch of testing but it's fairly simple way of getting shot. I never seen that atomizing thing, looks cool .

Short pants boy with lace up shoes and girl socks playing with molten metal. Where is his mommy?