I need help for chemicals

[hogger]

Hello so here is my problem.

I extracted pins from CPU by using HCL 31% + NaNO3 99%.
After pins fall off from CPU i filtered solution took only pins and put them in the HCL 31% 500ml + 250ml of 250ml NaClO (bleach 47g/1kg) then the solution was green i dont know why. But it was bubbling(soo i think its alright) after 8 hours i took the solution (750ml HCL+NaClO (bleach) and filtered it put away the scrap. And put there SMB but after 2 hours there is nothing. Soo im asking? Im i doing something wrong ?

 

[Martijn]

Hi Hogger, welcome to the forum!
To answer your question: "am I doing something wrong?" yes mulptiple things. Don't know were to start... just kidding, Yes i do:

Check your parachute before you jump?

The Poor man's AR was used to completely dissolve the pins, or just to loosen them?
How much material do you have? The gold from one CPU can hardly be seen after dropping with SMB. Need a microscope for that.

A small amount of AR will dissolve (some) gold, and that will precipitate back on your base metals as a black powder.. the gold may be in your rinse water or initial solution sludge. It is usually done the other way around on most e-scrap: first HCL to leach any lead and tin and then go to C2Cl (the proces formerly known as AP) or nitric to dissolve base metals, and then to dissolve the gold, go to the HCL + bleach or (Poormans) AR to get the gold in solution. Overuse of oxidizer can give problems, it will consume your SMB to neutralize the "Auric Chloride" solution.
HCL and bleach is mostly used to dissolve foils, not pins. The Bleach neutralises the HCL. Adding PH+ to Ph-. So not suitable for large amounts of PM or base metals.

When nothing happens with SBM the Ph can be off, there can be no gold in solution, Or there's to much free nitric left. I'm sure there are many more scenarios that can cause this problem.

I'm pretty sure the main problem is gold fever and little patience.

Here are some links to start with:And I sure hope you spend the time in reading and understanding it all. Re-read until you do or are cross-eyed.

Welcome to all newbies:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=796

Help where do i start to learn these skills? :
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28521

some advice i gave recently:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=28567#p301407
take your time and put the chemicals away for now and study first. I know it sounds like 'go do something else, you don't know what you're doing', but it's not. It's my attempt to spark your interest and send you on your path that should be long and to be enjoyed safely in good health.

Be safe, get the right gear and equipment. Don't hesistate to ask questions and especially before you start to put you recenlty gathered (assumed)knowledge in practice.

Martijn.

Martijn.

 

[archeonist]

You should check your solution with stannous to see if there is any gold in solution.

 

[hogger]

Hi Hogger, welcome to the forum!
To answer your question: "am I doing something wrong?" yes mulptiple things. Don't know were to start... just kidding, Yes i do:

Check your parachute before you jump?

The Poor man's AR was used to completely dissolve the pins, or just to loosen them?
How much material do you have? The gold from one CPU can hardly be seen after dropping with SMB. Need a microscope for that.

A small amount of AR will dissolve (some) gold, and that will precipitate back on your base metals as a black powder.. the gold may be in your rinse water or initial solution sludge. It is usually done the other way around on most e-scrap: first HCL to leach any lead and tin and then go to C2Cl (the proces formerly known as AP) or nitric to dissolve base metals, and then to dissolve the gold, go to the HCL + bleach or (Poormans) AR to get the gold in solution. Overuse of oxidizer can give problems, it will consume your SMB to neutralize the "Auric Chloride" solution.
HCL and bleach is mostly used to dissolve foils, not pins. The Bleach neutralises the HCL. Adding PH+ to Ph-. So not suitable for large amounts of PM or base metals.

When nothing happens with SBM the Ph can be off, there can be no gold in solution, Or there's to much free nitric left. I'm sure there are many more scenarios that can cause this problem.

I'm pretty sure the main problem is gold fever and little patience.

Here are some links to start with:And I sure hope you spend the time in reading and understanding it all. Re-read until you do or are cross-eyed.

Welcome to all newbies:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=796

Help where do i start to learn these skills? :
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28521

some advice i gave recently:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=28567#p301407
take your time and put the chemicals away for now and study first. I know it sounds like 'go do something else, you don't know what you're doing', but it's not. It's my attempt to spark your interest and send you on your path that should be long and to be enjoyed safely in good health.

Be safe, get the right gear and equipment. Don't hesistate to ask questions and especially before you start to put you recenlty gathered (assumed)knowledge in practice.

Martijn.

Martijn.

Can you guys lead me to a good recipe, if possible then with the chemicals I already have?

 

[Martijn]

You only have HCL, NaNO3 and bleach as I understand. Some hydrogen peroxide 3% (H2O2) should be available at most household stores.

With that you could study the Copper II Chloride process to dissolve the base metals, but that will generate a lot of toxic waste compared to the amount of gold there is. Dispose of your waste responsibly.
Dealing with waste:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1300
Or refresh it by bubbling air through it and acidifying with HCL according proven methods here on grf.

HCL and a bit of H2O2 to start the reaction is all thats needed. A HCL leach in advance could be neccesary depending on the materials the cpu pins are made of. Dont know if lead and tin will cause problems in this process.
I believe some say the tin can dissolve the gold.
I have no personal experience with the process, but i have studied it.

Maybe there is a better way but I'm just another hobbyist, still learning new things every day, also from trying to answer questions like yours. By no means an expert. There are much more experienced members that will correct me if I'm talking nonsense.

AP process or Cu2Cl process explained:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12914

If you want to dive in deeper:
http://jimlaurwilliams.org/projects/seychellePaper/index.html

Have fun.
Martijn.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I believe some say the tin can dissolve the gold.

The tin won't dissolve gold, but it can cause some losses.

In a chloride solution, it can create a colloid with the gold, causing the gold to remain in suspension in the solution.

Once nitrate is added, it can create tin paste which is difficult to filter and can hold gold in the paste it forms.

Dave

 

[Martijn]

Yes, thanks for that clarification Dave.
The tin forms stannous chloride in the HCL. Used to test for gold. And thus 'dropping' gold out of solution but leaving it suspended. Good for testing but not for precipitation.
Tin paste also known as metastannic acid would have formed in the OP's first HCL NaNO3 process, right?

 

[hogger]

I believe some say the tin can dissolve the gold.

The tin won't dissolve gold, but it can cause some losses.

In a chloride solution, it can create a colloid with the gold, causing the gold to remain in suspension in the solution.

Once nitrate is added, it can create tin paste which is difficult to filter and can hold gold in the paste it forms.

Dave

Ohh ok soo can you help me what i have to buy and all the progresses ?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Tin paste also known as metastannic acid would have formed in the OP's first HCL NaNO3 process, right?

If there was any tin there to begin with. Not knowing what CPUs he processed, and since I'm not really knowledgeable on CPUs and the alloys used to attach the pins, I can't say whether he created any.

Ohh ok soo can you help me what i have to buy and all the progresses ?

hogger, I understand this will probably be more difficult for you since I assume English is not your first language, but the best advice I can give you is to study the forum. Any effort to give you a simple step by step process will just leave you and anyone else who reads the steps in the future in danger. These processes use hazardous chemicals and create hazardous waste. They can also go differently for any number of reasons. If the process doesn't go as expected, you'll have no idea what to do. I've studied this for years and I still learn new things all the time.

My advice is to put your chemicals safely aside for now, and study the forum.

Dave

 

[hogger]

Tin paste also known as metastannic acid would have formed in the OP's first HCL NaNO3 process, right?

If there was any tin there to begin with. Not knowing what CPUs he processed, and since I'm not really knowledgeable on CPUs and the alloys used to attach the pins, I can't say whether he created any.

Ohh ok soo can you help me what i have to buy and all the progresses ?

hogger, I understand this will probably be more difficult for you since I assume English is not your first language, but the best advice I can give you is to study the forum. Any effort to give you a simple step by step process will just leave you and anyone else who reads the steps in the future in danger. These processes use hazardous chemicals and create hazardous waste. They can also go differently for any number of reasons. If the process doesn't go as expected, you'll have no idea what to do. I've studied this for years and I still learn new things all the time.

My advice is to put your chemicals safely aside for now, and study the forum.

Dave

Soo how im reading today. Just tell me when i will getting wrong.

Now i have these steps it can work on every PC scrap what i think.

Soo here it is, for first you have to put HCL in your container with scrap. Then leave it here for 4 hours. After that you have to deal with base metals. Soo now you have to make 2:1 HCL and 3% Peroxide. but dont heat it because it will dissolve gold maybe better is have that AP in lower temperature like 5-10 C. Soo after all gold foil and all that gold things are not fixed and base metal is dissolved here comes the cleaning of that gold things i would do it by pour it in papper filtration. and after that we have to take care of oxid and acid which is on the gold scrap soo maybe wash that gold scrap by water. After that take that gold with filtration and put it in HCl for few minutes and after that put there Clorox but only in few ml every few minutes (when its bubilng its ok or not im not sure or when is not recommended to put another drops of clorox help me with this). Soo am i on good way with this or you would something change on this ?

 

[hogger]

Tin paste also known as metastannic acid would have formed in the OP's first HCL NaNO3 process, right?

If there was any tin there to begin with. Not knowing what CPUs he processed, and since I'm not really knowledgeable on CPUs and the alloys used to attach the pins, I can't say whether he created any.

Ohh ok soo can you help me what i have to buy and all the progresses ?

hogger, I understand this will probably be more difficult for you since I assume English is not your first language, but the best advice I can give you is to study the forum. Any effort to give you a simple step by step process will just leave you and anyone else who reads the steps in the future in danger. These processes use hazardous chemicals and create hazardous waste. They can also go differently for any number of reasons. If the process doesn't go as expected, you'll have no idea what to do. I've studied this for years and I still learn new things all the time.

My advice is to put your chemicals safely aside for now, and study the forum.

Dave

Also another question when im making AP how i can know that base metals are dissolved ?

 

[Martijn]

Active, fresh C2C can be recognised by the colour and other indicators. If the colour indicates it's no longer fresh, it will not or harldy dissolve any metals.
Please read the links I gave you. If you had, you would't have asked certain questions.
I refuse to give you a step by step tutorial if your questions keep telling me you want a quick fix and keep ignoring our good advice. As Dave just explained.

Are you prepared to put in the time to learn? Then I (and other members) will help you, if not, not. Your call.
I wil not help you pollute our world or kill yourself.

Dive in the links and the formum, accompanied by a notebook and a pen, write down your conclusions and questions. If you realy can't find it on the forum, we will help.

Once you think you understand the basics, try a 20 millimliter test to get some foils. Not more!!!
Save the foils for further testing and getting acquainted.
And finish it all the way to the point of pouring clear and clean water down the drain from your waste waters.
To help you some more:
A fixed ratio for chemicals is sometimes okay, and sometimes not, leaving you with possibly too much oxidizer in the mix.
An excess of H2O2 for instance, will dissolve gold, as i've read. Once the C2C is made, there is no need to add H2O2. I have never tried it in practice though.

I think I don't have enough experience to start a C2C leach just yet...

Be safe, Martijn.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi Martijn.
I have never seen the expession c2c, mentioned before, would you care to elaborate?
Is it Cu2Cl?
I may have been conditionally blind but ...

 

[Martijn]

Hi Yggdrasil i got it here:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=12914&p=129150&hilit=C2C#p129150
Just trying to get lazersteve's new proposed name for the Cu2Cl or AP in use because it hits the nail and its catchy.
Not the most recent thread, but there's good info there. The older threads sometimes have info thats not always repeated in more recent threads.
And I thought it was known slang.
Martijn.

 

[galenrog]

We try to avoid all slang here. Especially slang abbreviations. Because there are many members who must use translators, being as accurate as possible in our language reduces potential problems. I am sure that Lazersteve meant well when he suggested using C2C instead of the more accurate, and therefore more easily translated Cu2Cl. But that was several years ago.

In that time, moderators and administrators have determined that we should use the most accurate language that we can. This made the forum, in the intervening years, more understandable, especially to those who must use translators.

As you read and study the forum, this will become more apparent.

Time for more coffee.

 

[Martijn]

I read that. But did not realise it was considered as such when writing my reply. I will use the correct terms from now on. Thanks.

 

[galenrog]

Not a problem. Just do your best.

Time for tea. My wife just set a cup next to me.