I think I've started a new bismuth, and bismuth is good?

[jeremyforlines]

Hello! Recently someone pointed out that this huge chunk of lead i had been working on was actually bismuth which made sense when I couldn't cupel anything from it - so I started tinkering with it. I'm looking for someone who may know by sight.
Secondly, this was by pure accident, thankfully, a friend of mine came by yesterday and had a bunch of junk hed bought at storage auction for me to pick thru and in all of it was a special forces ring that was rhodium plated. No stamp. He let me have it and I set to putting it under a torch, gently, because it looked like something like maybe mercury could be on it (I was upwind). So immediately it began to collapse and this whitish slivery blob falls out that was the color of silver, rhodium plating intact.
Instinctively I tossed the plating some of the blob and some bismuth on the crucible and melted the together and red hot. I removed the flame and weird pale yellow flowers bloomed from the puddle and what looked like black moss grew between the flowers. Over and over I repeated until nothing of the puddle was left. Just fluffy black and yellowish ashy stuff remained. So I grabbed just a blob of bismuth and some more of the blob from the ring and did it again and got a lot more black and other stuff. I guess what I'm asking is, is there rhodium in the bismuth? The whole 15lb blob of bismuth was recovered from a burnt building that wasn't attached but was next door to an automotive repair shop. No one there seems to be at all knowledgeable about it so nobody's claiming it, so I have no worries there. But I'd like to know what I do have. Here's some pics of what I have and what was separated.

 

[4metals]

Get a bone ash cupel, the smaller ones are not too costly. If you heat the supposed bismuth rhodium mixture in a cupel the bismuth will absorb into the cupel much like what happens in a fire assay cupellation. Any base metals will follow the bismuth and any precious metals will remain on the surface of the cupel.

 

[jeremyforlines]

Get a bone ash cupel, the smaller ones are not too costly. If you heat the supposed bismuth rhodium mixture in a cupel the bismuth will absorb into the cupel much like what happens in a fire assay cupellation. Any base metals will follow the bismuth and any precious metals will remain on the surface of the cupel.

Also, when the black stuff comes out, if I put the flame back on it it begins flying off while detonating. Very small barely a crackle sound but definitely little sparks everywhere.

 

[jeremyforlines]

Get a bone ash cupel, the smaller ones are not too costly. If you heat the supposed bismuth rhodium mixture in a cupel the bismuth will absorb into the cupel much like what happens in a fire assay cupellation. Any base metals will follow the bismuth and any precious metals will remain on the surface of the cupel.

Sure. I'm wondering tho what I've actually done tho, as that is what the bismuth did when the pot metal was added and heated. Everytime id skim that stuff off the top until all the bismuth was gone.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello! Recently someone pointed out that this huge chunk of lead i had been working on was actually bismuth which made sense when I couldn't cupel anything from it - so I started tinkering with it. I'm looking for someone who may know by sight.
Secondly, this was by pure accident, thankfully, a friend of mine came by yesterday and had a bunch of junk hed bought at storage auction for me to pick thru and in all of it was a special forces ring that was rhodium plated. No stamp. He let me have it and I set to putting it under a torch, gently, because it looked like something like maybe mercury could be on it (I was upwind). So immediately it began to collapse and this whitish slivery blob falls out that was the color of silver, rhodium plating intact.
Instinctively I tossed the plating some of the blob and some bismuth on the crucible and melted the together and red hot. I removed the flame and weird pale yellow flowers bloomed from the puddle and what looked like black moss grew between the flowers. Over and over I repeated until nothing of the puddle was left. Just fluffy black and yellowish ashy stuff remained. So I grabbed just a blob of bismuth and some more of the blob from the ring and did it again and got a lot more black and other stuff. I guess what I'm asking is, is there rhodium in the bismuth? The whole 15lb blob of bismuth was recovered from a burnt building that wasn't attached but was next door to an automotive repair shop. No one there seems to be at all knowledgeable about it so nobody's claiming it, so I have no worries there. But I'd like to know what I do have. Here's some pics of what I have and what was separated.

Neither Bismuth nor Rhodium would make sparks.
What temperatures are you talking about?
How is your Cupel made.
There should not be a need for raking off slag in a Cupel if things are done correct.

To me this looks like some casting alloy and that has been overheated, then we are talking about a Zinc/ Aluminum/Magnesium alloy or some derivative there of.
They will definitely spark and fume.

 

[4metals]

Heating a cupel with a torch is not exactly ideal and if the gas mixture is high in oxygen it's worse. Typically for cupellation the cupel is pre heated and the sample is then charged with the door closed until the charge melts. Once melted the door is cracked a bit to allow air to enter to drive the bismuth and allow it to both oxidize and be absorbed into the cupel. Trying to do this with a torch presents challenges and along with challenges come unexpected results.

 

[jeremyforlines]

Heating a cupel with a torch is not exactly ideal and if the gas mixture is high in oxygen it's worse. Typically for cupellation the cupel is pre heated and the sample is then charged with the door closed until the charge melts. Once melted the door is cracked a bit to allow air to enter to drive the bismuth and allow it to both oxidize and be absorbed into the cupel. Trying to do this with a torch presents challenges and along with challenges come unexpected results.

Tell me about it. What's happening here?

 

[jeremyforlines]

Tell me about it. What's happening here?

It's like those black snakes only they glow brightly and grow like a bunch of flowers.

 

[4metals]

Cupels are made of bone ash, they allow bismuth or lead oxides absorb into them. You are using a rock, not defined, and surely not bone ash. This makes it hard for guessing what is happening under the best of circumstances.

 

[jeremyforlines]

Cupels are made of bone ash, they allow bismuth or lead oxides absorb into them. You are using a rock, not defined, and surely not bone ash. This makes it hard for guessing what is happening under the best of circumstances.

That's actually Portland cement. Just got a little moisture is all.

 

[anachronism]

Rather than melting random lumps of metal a friend with an XRF would be extremely useful and as a bonus it would save an awful lot of time

 

[GoIdman]

As I understand, you have no idea what the alloy is.....it is very unfortunate to heat something that you do not know the composition of....fumes and other poisonous stuff will/could be around you....

Safety first...

Pete

 

[jeremyforlines]

Rather than melting random lumps of metal a friend with an XRF would be extremely useful and as a bonus it would save an awful lot of time

Your telling me! Unfortunately I know no one

 

[jeremyforlines]

As I understand, you have no idea what the alloy is.....it is very unfortunate to heat something that you do not know the composition of....fumes and other poisonous stuff will/could be around you....

Safety first...

Pete

Yes safety first, I do have a respirator on, but I think it's only good for organic vapors.

 

[Marcel]

You are trying things out with metals and substances you do not know.
Not good. Try to identify what you are working with prior to mixing and melting stuff.
Bismuth f.e. creates colorful oxides when heated. I do not see that here. Rhodium is - if plated - extremly thinly applied (check the price of Rh). No way to recover that from a single ring.
All in all take the time and effort and find out what you are dealing with, otherwise you will end up with of a blob of something metallic.