In dire need of help

[Iamdrainbows]

In dire need of help.

I just tried aqua regia

I mixed my hydrochloric acid with my nitric acid, then let it sit.

After 30 minutes it stopped boiling.

Then I filtered out the stuff and noticed that the gold was not melted properly. There was still a lot of gold debris.
I panned it out and it passed 18k and not 24 k.


I added urea and quadratic precipitant.

Waited thirty minutes and when I strained it it looked like black sand in the bottom.
I magnetized the stuff and got the bad stuff out and then put it in my furnace.

I have it set to 1150.

I put borax in it.
Then I poured it I to my ingot mold and got absolutely nothing but borax.

Please help. I got no gold. What am I doing wrong?

 

[butcher]

It is harder to give advice without seeing what your doing.









.

Placer gold can be around 6% silver composition of the natural alloy, making it harder for your solution to get to the gold atoms and remove electrons to share with chloride ions.

It is a bad idea to try and leach placer gold from black sands or from ore using aqua regia, the iron compounds of the black sands compete with gold to go into solution, and also these iron ores also at the same time try to pull your gold back out of solution pushing your gold back out of solution, Aqua regia is good for refining gold,but makes for a terrible leach for gold from ore or black sand.,
Besides the deadly arsenic and other gases and compounds created from leaching ore with these acids...



Urea is useless, it would be better to use sulfamic acid, better yet learn to use nitric properly and not being concerned about making aqua regia by mixing the acids.

I am unsure of what quadratic precipitant is, it sounds like something somebody sold you a bill of goods for your gold,.

After removing nitric and testing the solution for gold you can use either ferrous sulfate (iron sulfate or copperas is easily made using iron and 10% sulfuric acid, or you can use sodium metabisulfite to precipitate the gold, if that fails use a bar of copper to displace gold from solution.

if your trying to melt gold or silver as chlorides you can expect to loose some of your gold seeing it go up in the smoke.

Now what did you do wrong, basically everything, that is why we say study to learn, before jumping in blind.

 

[Iamdrainbows]

I recorded a video. I will post it here tomorrow. The whole process.. ... warning it's messy...lol.
I'll post it tomorrow and you can see.

It looks like at the end I got what I was supposed to. But I put it all in my electric furnace and the gold disappeared.

I don't know why this is. But instead I'm switching to a torch and a crucible. Will update you tomorrow.... if you dont see my reply I'll PM you the video.


Tha KS for the help

 

[Martijn]

Yes, keep trying new things until something goes so horribly bad that you can't get out with some questions on the forum. You will shorten your lifespan!!
we try to help you..
The last advise I gave you:

Welcome to the forum.
There are some good post about yield from chips.
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22951
Try to use the search function and read and study a lot.

We are working with toxic chemical solutions and toxic metal salts.
These need to be handled and disposed carefully and responsibly. For your health and the environment.

Study safety and dealing with waste first.

Read hoke's book refining precious metals.
Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
From Frugalrefiners signature.

The best way to start and learn is clean cut ram fingers in AP.

You tube is not a good source of info. Very dangerous practices there. And stupid processes. And fairy tales. Some are good. You can't tell the difference yet.

Come back here when you think you have a plan before proceeding to perfoming actual chemistry.
Or when you have questions.

Martijn.

And keep making the same mistakes all over and over without giving us a reply to all our questions and just try something else and ask the same questions again. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!!
Can you answer some of the questions we asked you?


To answer your question:
"Please help. I got no gold. What am I doing wrong?" 1: STOP WHAT YOUR'E DOING!!! 2: no idea where your gold is, insufficient info given. 3: Your'e not studying and playing with your life.

p.s. GRF does not allow vid's. Get a you tube account and post a link to it here.

 

[Martijn]

Here is a perfect example of how to ask before trying:

Kubik_Rubik: kudos!! I salute you and your approach!
Let this be an example for every new member!!

Hello. I first placed a query in the topic Gold inside chips (black, flatpacks - not CPU), but then I noticed, that tutorials are no question area so I'm sorry about that.

I plan to start processing BGA chips and other ICs this year. I studied a lot of procedures and prepared a plan that I want to try and I would very much like to know your opinion. This is a pre-chemical treatment:
- pyrolysis and incineration
- ball mill grinding
- sieving through a 2mm sieve - to remove thermal spreaders
- removal of the finest fraction using bucket separation as used by Successful Engineer in this video:
- drying and sieving with 60 - 100 sieves + magnetic separation
- processing using sluice with dream mini mat like this one: Dream mat 8"x36" Concentrator Mini Mat Do you think this mat is good option for catching bonding wires?
- then maybe concentration on the miller's table, but again I don't know if it's suitable for working with bonding wires.

I originally planned to use the Gold Spiral Wheel, but with postage + VAT it's a very expensive solution for me in Czech Republic.

Do you think this could work or if you made any changes. Thank you so much for your tips, I can't wait to try it.

Giving us the time to confirm his plan, warn him for any dangers, changes needed in approach or advise other methods.

 

[galenrog]

I am in a foul mood this morning. Such will be my comments.

What we have here, boys and girls, is an example of someone who jumps into a hot spring without knowing the temperature, thus creating for himself a plethora of problems.

After reading, and re-reading your post several times, I am still not sure what you were trying to accomplish. What was your source material? Since you do not share what is was, only assumptions can be made by members who may be willing to help. In the future, if you have one, please detail your process from start to finish. Do not assume that anyone here knows what you have done or what you are doing until you have written it down and shared it in detail. Preferably, you will detail your process here before you actually start anything in order to learn if your plan is workable.

I share the opinion of Martijn on much of this. If your source material was ore or placer sands, an Aqua Regia leach can evolve some very toxic fumes. People can die doing things like this, if they are lucky. If they are unlucky, they will suffer severe lung, kidney, or liver issues for months or years until they do die.

Time for more coffee.

 

[Iamdrainbows]

Well I used cpu chips. Started out with 12 lbs.

I did not get to dispose of the waste yet so I went back to my Pyrex dish and collected a lot of grey/black mud. Hoping this is the gold.

I really do appr3ciate the heads up with safety.... I mean how rich is a dead man?!?

Well to start off I had 12 lbs of cpu pinless processors that I snagged from eBay.
I soaked them in hcl and then added nitric. Removed the gold. But honestly I was left with a lot of gold flakes. Like it didn’t break down all the way. Does this mean it’s not gold or is it? As in if it doesn’t dissolve do I need to add more nitric or muriatic acid, would be great to know


I heard that AR with ore does give off toxic fumes,

I mean I’m not going to use cyanide because of the dangers, so why would I remove the gold from ore with AR


So basically as a newbie I appreciate the words and the help. I’m creating videos of every attempt and will post on YouTube to document the whole experience.

But back to it I yielded some black mud and I’m (opting it dries brown. The black powder was only in it after I added the precipitant. I’m guessing if it doesn’t turn brown it’s not gold or could this be a variation of color?

Sorry for the inexperience but you have to start s9mewhere and 8m glad I found this forum.... so thanks for the help..

Hope your day gets better galenrog

 

[Iamdrainbows]

I haven't discarded my waste of course to do so properly. I went to empty our my Pyrex dish into another and found a bunch of black mud. I'm drying it out jts kind of Metalic. I doubt this is gold but what else would it be. Does another metal precipitate in a few hours or something?

 

[1mysurveymail]

Well I used cpu chips. Started out with 12 lbs.

"Ceramic antiques or modern chips? Modern chips are almost devoid of gold."

I did not get to dispose of the waste yet so I went back to my Pyrex dish and collected a lot of grey/black mud. Hoping this is the gold.

I really do appr3ciate the heads up with safety.... I mean how rich is a dead man?!? "If the dead man never has to hear a hag nag him? He is better off."

Well to start off I had 12 lbs of cpu pinless processors that I snagged from eBay.
I soaked them in hcl and then added nitric. Removed the gold. But honestly I was left with a lot of gold flakes. Like it didn’t break down all the way. "Actually it sounds like you got the gold off the chips by a rather extreme method (AR)." Does this mean it’s not gold or is it? As in if it doesn’t dissolve do I need to add more nitric or muriatic acid, would be great to know


I heard that AR with ore does give off toxic fumes,

I mean I’m not going to use cyanide because of the dangers, so why would I remove the gold from ore with AR


So basically as a newbie I appreciate the words and the help. I’m creating videos of every attempt and will post on YouTube to document the whole experience.

But back to it I yielded some black mud and I’m (opting it dries brown. The black powder was only in it after I added the precipitant. I’m guessing if it doesn’t turn brown it’s not gold or could this be a variation of color? "Dirty drops look darker because you dropped other dissolved metals, like copper."

Sorry for the inexperience but you have to start s9mewhere and 8m glad I found this forum.... so thanks for the help..

Hope your day gets better galenrog

I had a bunch of grey mud once. Some generous guy here or there told me to incinerate?calcinine(sp?) it, and use NaOh to get rid of the base metals. It worked for my grey mud. It also sounds like yours is contaminated by tin and copper and maybe silver too. Don't beat yourself up, and don't let others EVER beat you up. Just take a deep breath and learn a bit more. Not everyone here starts with the same feed stock/scrap. Be wary of YouTube videos, they always seem to leave out a step (on purpose?). Don't throw anything away. Matter is neither created, nor destroyed, although I have murdered a few pints.

One DEEP DARK SECRET here, only ever spoken after many brow beating is the cryptic phrase "de-noxxed." Shame on people for hiding how to denoxx AR. Some use Urea, I use "grout cleaner" labeled "SULFAMIC ACID CRYSTALS." It is the magic substance that will neutralize the nitric in your AR and allow you to "drop" the gold out of solution using SMB (Bonide brand stump remover). It seems to me that you started with modern fiberglass chips with very little gold. The old CERAMIC chips were loaded with gold. They are as rare these days as actual helpful advice. Keep your expectations from Escrap low, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Martijn]

Don't make new video's of new attempts! Please stop. Your gold is still there.
Keep the mud wet for later recovery.
Only post whatever pictures or videos you have made and study:

Dealing with waste.
Reactivity series.
Hoke's book.

A lot will become clear once you have.

Don't do anything without asking first!

 

[Iamdrainbows]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate the help.

If I dont neutralize it enough gold won't drop? I think that's what was going on. What ph should I bring the acid to?

 

[1mysurveymail]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate the help.

If I dont neutralize it enough gold won't drop? I think that's what was going on. What ph should I bring the acid to?

Getting rid of the excess nitric in solution is called, "de-noxx" IF THE GOLD IS IN SOLUTION it will NOT drop until you get rid of the excess nitric. I personally use sulfamic acid crystals (commonly sold as tile grout cleaner). Some photos of your solution would be helpful. In your description you seemed to indicate the "gold foils" were free floating in your solution... That would just be "recovery." IF THE GOLD DISSOLVED into your AR, that is just the first step in "refining." It is a distinction with a difference.

 

[g_axelsson]

I think it's a bit disrespectful to try to denoxx on this forum. I wonder how Noxx feels about it, he's the founder of the forum after all. :wink:

Search for denox instead.

Do NOT neutralize the aqua regia after dissolving your gold, you need to remove nitrate ions (denoxing) while keeping a healthy low pH with hydrochloric acid, at least if you are using SMB to precipitate the gold. SMB doesn't work unless there are plenty of HCl in the solution.

Anyone writing "neutralize nitric acid" should stop it, it is sloppy wording and leads newbies onto the wrong track. "Removing nitric acid", "removing nitrate ions" or "denoxing" is phrases that actually describes what we do.

To neutralize an acid is to adjust the pH to 7, neutral, and a well known and defined practice in chemistry. Let's not be sloppy here and use it for a different procedure.

Göran

 

[Iamdrainbows]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate the help.

If I dont neutralize it enough gold won't drop? I think that's what was going on. What ph should I bring the acid to?

Getting rid of the excess nitric in solution is called, "de-noxx" IF THE GOLD IS IN SOLUTION it will NOT drop until you get rid of the excess nitric. I personally use sulfamic acid crystals (commonly sold as tile grout cleaner). Some photos of your solution would be helpful. In your description you seemed to indicate the "gold foils" were free floating in your solution... That would just be "recovery." IF THE GOLD DISSOLVED into your AR, that is just the first step in "refining." It is a distinction with a difference.

So I will try the grout cleaner. I will look 8nto it. About how much should I use? I’m going off of 1 part nitric 3 parts hcl.

So I detox and then drop or at wha5 moment do I detox? You are saying I shouldn’t neutralize?

 

[Iamdrainbows]

I think it's a bit disrespectful to try to denoxx on this forum. I wonder how Noxx feels about it, he's the founder of the forum after all. :wink:

Search for denox instead.

Do NOT neutralize the aqua regia after dissolving your gold, you need to remove nitrate ions (denoxing) while keeping a healthy low pH with hydrochloric acid, at least if you are using SMB to precipitate the gold. SMB doesn't work unless there are plenty of HCl in the solution.

Anyone writing "neutralize nitric acid" should stop it, it is sloppy wording and leads newbies onto the wrong track. "Removing nitric acid", "removing nitrate ions" or "denoxing" is phrases that actually describes what we do.

To neutralize an acid is to adjust the pH to 7, neutral, and a well known and defined practice in chemistry. Let's not be sloppy here and use it for a different procedure.

Göran

Is this a good video? I’m using sms instead of copperas

 

[Martijn]

You can try the preview button before the submit button to see if your post is as intended, with links and attachments.
I see no video.

 

[Iamdrainbows]

I think it's a bit disrespectful to try to denoxx on this forum. I wonder how Noxx feels about it, he's the founder of the forum after all. :wink:

Search for denox instead.

Do NOT neutralize the aqua regia after dissolving your gold, you need to remove nitrate ions (denoxing) while keeping a healthy low pH with hydrochloric acid, at least if you are using SMB to precipitate the gold. SMB doesn't work unless there are plenty of HCl in the solution.

Anyone writing "neutralize nitric acid" should stop it, it is sloppy wording and leads newbies onto the wrong track. "Removing nitric acid", "removing nitrate ions" or "denoxing" is phrases that actually describes what we do.

To neutralize an acid is to adjust the pH to 7, neutral, and a well known and defined practice in chemistry. Let's not be sloppy here and use it for a different procedure.

Göran

Question.

I'm on my second round of aqua regia.... I did forget you said not to neutralize. I completely denoxxed but I'm not getting precipitation. Can I send you some videos to check out to see what I did wrong?

Pretty much put about 1/2 pound of urea and about 380 grams of sulfuric acid. Now my aqua regia isn't passing a stannous chloride test. What do you think?

 

[Iamdrainbows]

Thanks a lot guys. I appreciate the help.

If I dont neutralize it enough gold won't drop? I think that's what was going on. What ph should I bring the acid to?

Getting rid of the excess nitric in solution is called, "de-noxx" IF THE GOLD IS IN SOLUTION it will NOT drop until you get rid of the excess nitric. I personally use sulfamic acid crystals (commonly sold as tile grout cleaner). Some photos of your solution would be helpful. In your description you seemed to indicate the "gold foils" were free floating in your solution... That would just be "recovery." IF THE GOLD DISSOLVED into your AR, that is just the first step in "refining." It is a distinction with a difference.

So question. I'm on my second attempt. I denoxxed. And still no precipitation. I added 380 grams of sulfuric acid. I heard it's 1.5 grams to every ml. I had 250 ml.

Could it be that there's too little gold and also it was passing a stannous chloride test and now it completely is not failing. It doesn't change like there's no gold. The other tries I did have gold.

I'm gonna save my aqua regia Co fident it is still I. There. Should I maybe put more hcl in and more sulfuric acid chrystals? How long should I denoxx for?

 

[Iamdrainbows]

Here is the first video.

https://youtu.be/cuYJs4NnRe0

 

[butcher]

Put the chemicals away, before you poison yourself and your family.

You are not going to get gold with anything your doing now.

If you truly wish to learn these skills, begin with studying safety, and dealing with all the toxic waste clean up the toxic poison your are spilling where your child plays.

With your time spent studying and learning to deal with the toxic waste you can learn to recover some of the gold from this toxic mess as it is the beginning of the process.