Inherited MESS!

[Elderthug]

My brother thought that he was going to get rich by buying "melted gold drops" of old computer pins, he got over 500 grams from someone on Ebay and added some that he had already gotten from junk computers that he pulled apart himself. here's what he says he did:
1. Tried to remove the gold plate from the loose pins (not the 'drops') by letting them soak in HCL/Chlorine bleach overnight. everything turned to muddy layer in the bottom of his container.
2. added SMB to solution (actually Bonide Stump-out) "until it stopped fizzing" (his words) and let it sit for another day, more mud! decided that this was the wrong way and poured all into a waste solution container.
3. Next he dissolved the melted "drops' of pins in 1.5 liters of 50% heated Nitric acid, and received a nasty acid burn on his unprotected hand (lesson learned, I hope) then decided that this whole thing was a bad idea and dumped the whole mess into the same waste container with the first batch(!) and left it for me to deal with.
Myself, I have a fair background in chemistry and am rock solid about safety, but I know only a little about gold recovery. the solution is untouched for now, it has stratified into 3 layers, dark blackish grey at the bottom then a medium grey and last a transparent blue liquid -all layers have visible gold particles in them (more on the lower layers).
It seems a shame to dispose of gold that you can actually see, so I'm coming to the experts, I understand that there probably isn't enough gold in it to make any money, but I just can't bring myself to get rid of it without trying.
Any ideas? feel free to Email me at [email protected], thanks!

 

[necromancer]

why would you leave a email address ? are you never coming back ?

 

[GotTheBug]

Just a warning here. If you learn, and obtain a little button, or bb, at the end of this process, you will be hooked. A picture of the stratified layers might help.

 

[Justincase]

very good advice!!!
There should be a warning on the entry page telling you,
Precious Metal refining is extremely habit forming....

 

[solar_plasma]

Let me say it this way: When I started here, I had profound knowledge about how to make school experiments, to handle the chemicals and explain the theory behind the experiments, but to recover the gold from this mess, I would, to some degree, have been able to after some month of daily reading this forum and related literature. Even now it would not be an easy task to me and a nasty work.

I am pretty sure you will not get, what you thought. If you want to learn it, you will have to invest the same effort. What you need, is all here. If you get overwhelmed by the complexity of this forum, you can get help, where to start.

 

[g_axelsson]

As both your brother and you know now, the most important topic is safety. There's a lot written on the forum. Read it and avoid stupid mistakes that can scar you for life.
Then, read about how to take care of the waste in a responsible manner, do not pour it down the drain!

After that you can go back to your mess...
Learn how to test for dissolved gold. (Search for stannous chloride)
Discard the liquid if there isn't any gold dissolved. (It probably won't be if you have any undissolved metal left)
If there is any dissolved gold search for "cementing gold with copper". Then go back to the previous step.

The next step after getting rid of the liquid mess is to recover and refine the leftover solids you have. To do that I recommend you take the introduction to the forum and read Hoke's book. (available as download from the forum in several places)
Everything you need to know are written many times on the forum. Seek and you will find.

Göran

 

[solar_plasma]

search also everything about "stock pot"

 

[Claudie]

500 grams of melted pins at ebay prices added to the cost of the chemicals already used, would be considerably more than the Gold value of any Gold that could be refined from this mess. Unless you are just wanting to learn the process, you should just properly dispose of it and try not to hurt anyone else. Hopefully this is not being stored around people or pets and is in a proper container.

 

[g_axelsson]

A good way to process a few blobs of melted pins is to put it in your stock pot. At least if you are processing a lot of gold and don't need to finish it quickly.

Thirty years ago I had an idea that I could get the gold out via the slime from a copper cell so I melted together a bunch of pins and tried it... that just made a mess out of it. I found those pieces of melted pins a year ago and put it in my stock pot. Today half of it is gone and the gold recovered via the black sludge in the stock pot.

Göran

 

[heliman4141]

I agree not worth the time financially,
If it was my mess is id add copper to it first for a few days to drop any PMs or you could just skip that stage and drain away acids into a 2nd larger bucket if that is the case & then add small iron nails or some small regular iron to it for a few days stirring occasionally.
Finally after all metals have dropped, id add lye in small amounts till it reaches a neutral 7 or higher PH. At that point its safe to breath around it & to pour it away as salty water waste. The left over gooey sludge can then be solidfied with sawdust, lime, whatever you have on hand & once solidfied add a lid on it (hopefully its a 5 gal bucket) & put in the garbage container to be hauled away.
That would be your min. effort to get rid of it safely. In any event lye will neutralize the acid and you should first drop the metals from the acid first so that they are in a solid form & won't present a leeching hazard once under ground. If solid they will stay put as it were.
Dave

 

[Elderthug]

Thanks for the advice, I have now read Hoke several times and have managed to recover 3.77 grams!, not nearly enough to pay for the wasted materials but enough to show my brother that the gold really was in there (he thought he'd been ripped).
now I have only two remaining bottles of material that he just brought me, these are a bit different. one has liquid that is very dark brown and stains a qtip too dark to see any color change when testing with stannous chloride. I tried reducing the liquid and filtering but ended up with salts that dissolved back into solution when rinsing.
the second bottle is dark purple liquid, transparent (not cloudy) also too dark to see any color change when tested (though I doubt I'd have seen any due to the purple color). my brother says that the majority of the original metal he dissolved is in this solution. I think that there was quite a bit of solder on the pieces he dissolved and the tin from that may be holding the gold in a coloidial state. he said that he used Hcl/bleach only in this batch.
I have printed a copy of Hoke's book for y brother in case he decides to try again, and one for myself to enjoy (you guys were right, this is addictive!).
I'm still not sure how to proceed with the first bottle, any advice would be good.
My thought on the second bottle is:
1. Add 10-15ml of sulfuric to drop lead out. let it stand for a day then filter.
2. Add a few grams of smb to drop what gold I can, le stand for a day and filter.
3. Add more sulfuric acid and heat to break the colloidial state. this should allow the gold to come together in small crystals like it does in AR when you add the SMB. collect the mud and go from there.
any further ideas or suggestions will be accepted with great enthusiasm!
By the way, I used to work cleaning up hazmat sites (spills, dumps and old mine sites) I'm really glad to see that the members here avdocate responsible disposal of waste materials.

 

[solar_plasma]

For testing the dark liquids you might search for "stannous and spot plate and purple stain".

Gold will leave a purple stain in a spot plate or a white plastic spoon.

 

[g_axelsson]

That's good news, congratulations to your first button... now you're hooked! :mrgreen:

The remaining two bottles could be processed by first adding copper until nothing more dissolves and let it stand for a couple of days so all precious metals have a chance to cement. Test the remaining solution for any gold left and if barren, remove most of it by decanting or filtering.

If you suspect colloidal gold in the purple solution after you removed it from any solids I suggest (haven't tried it myself) that you take a small sample, let it dry out and then incinerate it, all the way up to a dull red glow and keep it there for a while. This will remove any nitric or chloride ions and the tin will be oxidized into tin oxide.
The incinerated sample can be washed in HCl which will remove most of the tin and some of the base metals, while any gold will stay as a solid mud.
After washing you can dissolve in HCl + Cl or AR and test the resulting liquid with stannous to see if you have any values worth chasing.

Another way to break a colloidal is to boil the solution with sulfuric acid added. I haven't tried this either but I found this post by Juan Manuel Arcos Frank, one of the more experienced members of the forum.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=3746&p=31870&hilit=breaking+colloidal+sulphuric#p31870

Good luck with your addiction! :lol:

Göran

 

[Elderthug]

Thanks Goran! I'll try both methods and let you know how it works out, do you think a 100ml sample will be enough? the total liquid material I have is just under 1/2 gallon (of the purple stuff).