is there anyone who can help?
- Thread starter alper
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
alper,
We can help you get started learning to do the things you are trying to do properly, but it will take a lot of study on your part to learn, it will also not be easy as there is much you need to learn to become successful.
You should begin learning about safety, as up till now all you have is a deadly toxic waste you do not know how to dispose of without harming your neighbors.
I suggest you start with learning to deal with waste, during this process you can recover any values from the toxic mess you have now, and learn several important principles of how the chemistry works while doing so.
We can help you get started learning to do the things you are trying to do properly, but it will take a lot of study on your part to learn, it will also not be easy as there is much you need to learn to become successful.
You should begin learning about safety, as up till now all you have is a deadly toxic waste you do not know how to dispose of without harming your neighbors.
I suggest you start with learning to deal with waste, during this process you can recover any values from the toxic mess you have now, and learn several important principles of how the chemistry works while doing so.
So many questions....
I suspect you’ve tried to process magnetic material with AR and now you have all sorts of salts reacting. The solution is way too filthy to know for sure but something appears to be falling out of solution.
It doesn’t look like gold but that doesn’t really mean much. Vice versa,you may have traces of iron in your solution that will passivate in nitric/AR and will be a problem. This will look like gold in solution.
It may be lead. Doubtful but maybe.
If you had decent material it’s almost certainly silver chloride and that is very much beyond the scope of a first timer; I can confidently say that from experience. I lost nearly 2000£ of gold in my early days (I have earned that back ten fold) due to not parting silver properly.
Everyone will tell you read Hoke; I endorse that but Hoke is no use unless you are either knowledgeable in the practise or you have a good system of study. Hoke in my opinion isn’t great for money chasers as they’ll ignore most of the key minute details they perceive as unimportant. These are THE most important bits and Hokes grace and consistent manner of writing does not emphasise that. Hence why you’ll see the jedis keep saying “go back to hoke”. You can read her book a thousand times and still learn something the 1001st time.
I think Butchers comments are key; if you understand the chemistry side, you’ll be ahead of people like me the minute you start. I myself have a very methodical brain and it does not receive chemistry equations or processes in the way butchers or some other jedis do. If someone, however,breaks it down differently, I process. Nitric for example... see it as a villain with and oxygen gun, firing bullets at an army of metals and evaporating them. That’s how my brain understands oxidisation. I have to picture images rather than numbers and letters in rows and columns.
However, I have taught myself to produce very pure gold even with that in mind. With all humility, I can produce as good as people that have been doing it for 30 years, with string academic backgrounds in chemistry.
I adopted the 10,000 hour rule 18 months ago and I am 1800 hours from that. I advise you buy a pure ounce bar, and once you are able to reclaim and refine that to 100% you move to Harder material. E waste is a waste of time for beginners and I wouldn’t even try jewellery as you’ll end up like this every time.
Your mess in my opinion, is beyond the scope of recovery for a beginner. Do not do this for money. Unless you are in the upper percentage of intellectual ability you’ll hurt yourself.
I suspect you’ve tried to process magnetic material with AR and now you have all sorts of salts reacting. The solution is way too filthy to know for sure but something appears to be falling out of solution.
It doesn’t look like gold but that doesn’t really mean much. Vice versa,you may have traces of iron in your solution that will passivate in nitric/AR and will be a problem. This will look like gold in solution.
It may be lead. Doubtful but maybe.
If you had decent material it’s almost certainly silver chloride and that is very much beyond the scope of a first timer; I can confidently say that from experience. I lost nearly 2000£ of gold in my early days (I have earned that back ten fold) due to not parting silver properly.
Everyone will tell you read Hoke; I endorse that but Hoke is no use unless you are either knowledgeable in the practise or you have a good system of study. Hoke in my opinion isn’t great for money chasers as they’ll ignore most of the key minute details they perceive as unimportant. These are THE most important bits and Hokes grace and consistent manner of writing does not emphasise that. Hence why you’ll see the jedis keep saying “go back to hoke”. You can read her book a thousand times and still learn something the 1001st time.
I think Butchers comments are key; if you understand the chemistry side, you’ll be ahead of people like me the minute you start. I myself have a very methodical brain and it does not receive chemistry equations or processes in the way butchers or some other jedis do. If someone, however,breaks it down differently, I process. Nitric for example... see it as a villain with and oxygen gun, firing bullets at an army of metals and evaporating them. That’s how my brain understands oxidisation. I have to picture images rather than numbers and letters in rows and columns.
However, I have taught myself to produce very pure gold even with that in mind. With all humility, I can produce as good as people that have been doing it for 30 years, with string academic backgrounds in chemistry.
I adopted the 10,000 hour rule 18 months ago and I am 1800 hours from that. I advise you buy a pure ounce bar, and once you are able to reclaim and refine that to 100% you move to Harder material. E waste is a waste of time for beginners and I wouldn’t even try jewellery as you’ll end up like this every time.
Your mess in my opinion, is beyond the scope of recovery for a beginner. Do not do this for money. Unless you are in the upper percentage of intellectual ability you’ll hurt yourself.
It may be one thing it may be lots.
I think looking at even the bottle you are using, you’re some way away from understanding. I’m surprised the bottle didn’t melt if you went straight to AR.
Like Lino said it may be nitrates in which you’ve now created an explosive solution that you’re unlikely to understand the dangers of and what may make it go off.
You would have had to use a lot of urea though. In my opinion. To have that amount.
I suspect, I may be wrong, Lino is more knowledgable than myself, but I think it’s metal salts.
What did you put in in the first place? What material?
I think looking at even the bottle you are using, you’re some way away from understanding. I’m surprised the bottle didn’t melt if you went straight to AR.
Like Lino said it may be nitrates in which you’ve now created an explosive solution that you’re unlikely to understand the dangers of and what may make it go off.
You would have had to use a lot of urea though. In my opinion. To have that amount.
I suspect, I may be wrong, Lino is more knowledgable than myself, but I think it’s metal salts.
What did you put in in the first place? What material?
the subject you are right is yes it is true that i throw a little urea.
How do you know that I do not understand the subject you are wrong? glass bottle aqua reqiada melt? don't worry buddy don't worry.
I burned scrap pc parts and scrap mobile phones in the fire and put them.
lino; How much water do I need to add and is it mandatory that the water I will add is pure water or will I add tap water?
I didn't understand what he meant when I said lubricate?
How do you know that I do not understand the subject you are wrong? glass bottle aqua reqiada melt? don't worry buddy don't worry.
I burned scrap pc parts and scrap mobile phones in the fire and put them.
lino; How much water do I need to add and is it mandatory that the water I will add is pure water or will I add tap water?
I didn't understand what he meant when I said lubricate?
alper,
Burning electronic scrap is very dangerous, with most materials there are better ways to process the material and do it more safely and efficiently.
Ash from burnt electronic materials is normally very alkaline, carbonates and borates, which will consume a lot of your acids making salts out of the acids, the other metals also make salts of metals in acid, most chlorides and nitrates are soluble, with metals like silver and lead and mercury being some of the exceptions.
Urea will not remove nitric acid and is basically useless when you use too much nitric acid in your aqua regia.
Urea will remove the byproducts of nitric acid from solution, such as nitrous acid HNO2 or NO2 gas that has decomposed into the solution, but any free nitric acid in solution when mixed with urea forms into a salt of urea nitrate, which if acidified will reform nitric acid again.
Too much SMB can also precipitate copper salts as well as itself oversaturating the solution and leaving insoluble salts.
The white salts are possibly several water-soluble salts.
Urea Nitrate (water-soluble), (will reform nitric acid with acids), (explosive if dried or heat strongly).
Silver chloride (insoluble in acids or water).
Lead chloride (very low water solubility in cold water, (much more soluble in boiling hot water).
Adding water should dilute and dissolve many of the salts, hot water can be used to separate lead and silver salts...
I would treat the solution for waste, adding a bar of copper metal to recover your gold and any valuable metals as black powders decanting liquid solution from the insoluble powders.
Save the valuable powders until you learn more.
Add iron to the remaining solution to recover copper from the solution as a reddish powder, decanting or carefully pouring off the liquid from the insoluble powders.
Raise the pH of the solution to around a pH of about 10 with either sodium hydroxide or a lime solution, letting the insoluble powders settle and decanting solution.
Bring the pH back to neutral (by adding acid), so more insoluble powders will settle from solution, decanting solution of saltwater.
Dry the waste (I roast it to red hot to make the hydroxides form oxides which are less water-soluble before disposal)...
Study dealing with waste, you will recover your gold or any values during the process and learn many principles that will help you understand recovery and refining better...
Forget using urea, study to learn better methods.
Study to learn safer and better or easier methods to recover gold from your material.
Basically, you need to begin with safety and studying better and safer methods.
Learn better methods to process your scrap and do it more safely.
Burning electronic scrap is very dangerous, with most materials there are better ways to process the material and do it more safely and efficiently.
Ash from burnt electronic materials is normally very alkaline, carbonates and borates, which will consume a lot of your acids making salts out of the acids, the other metals also make salts of metals in acid, most chlorides and nitrates are soluble, with metals like silver and lead and mercury being some of the exceptions.
Urea will not remove nitric acid and is basically useless when you use too much nitric acid in your aqua regia.
Urea will remove the byproducts of nitric acid from solution, such as nitrous acid HNO2 or NO2 gas that has decomposed into the solution, but any free nitric acid in solution when mixed with urea forms into a salt of urea nitrate, which if acidified will reform nitric acid again.
Too much SMB can also precipitate copper salts as well as itself oversaturating the solution and leaving insoluble salts.
The white salts are possibly several water-soluble salts.
Urea Nitrate (water-soluble), (will reform nitric acid with acids), (explosive if dried or heat strongly).
Silver chloride (insoluble in acids or water).
Lead chloride (very low water solubility in cold water, (much more soluble in boiling hot water).
Adding water should dilute and dissolve many of the salts, hot water can be used to separate lead and silver salts...
I would treat the solution for waste, adding a bar of copper metal to recover your gold and any valuable metals as black powders decanting liquid solution from the insoluble powders.
Save the valuable powders until you learn more.
Add iron to the remaining solution to recover copper from the solution as a reddish powder, decanting or carefully pouring off the liquid from the insoluble powders.
Raise the pH of the solution to around a pH of about 10 with either sodium hydroxide or a lime solution, letting the insoluble powders settle and decanting solution.
Bring the pH back to neutral (by adding acid), so more insoluble powders will settle from solution, decanting solution of saltwater.
Dry the waste (I roast it to red hot to make the hydroxides form oxides which are less water-soluble before disposal)...
Study dealing with waste, you will recover your gold or any values during the process and learn many principles that will help you understand recovery and refining better...
Forget using urea, study to learn better methods.
Study to learn safer and better or easier methods to recover gold from your material.
Basically, you need to begin with safety and studying better and safer methods.
Learn better methods to process your scrap and do it more safely.
Martijn
Well-known member
Easiest and fastest: bring tour material to someone who knows how to clean up a mess. Ask him if he's kind enough to clean up your mess. And handle your waste. Don't bother asking for gold in return. The work to retrieve any values will be greater than any money to be earned.
I know it's harsh, but life's hard.
Another way: set your gold fever aside along with the mess. And listen to butcher and study.
Patience and gold fever are very poor friends.
Good luck.
Martijn.
I know it's harsh, but life's hard.
Another way: set your gold fever aside along with the mess. And listen to butcher and study.
Patience and gold fever are very poor friends.
Good luck.
Martijn.
Martijn
Well-known member
And please stop burning electronics and polluting our planet.
alper said:
With proper incineration and careful panning a large part can be recovered.
Most boards are better processed in hydrochloric acid and a small, one time dose of 3% hydrogen peroxide. While slow it is a lot safer and easier to use for recovering the gold. A search of the forum for AP will give you a lot of information on the process.
alper,
Spending your time studying the forum will get you closer to getting gold and learning to do it safely, the time studying will put you closer than trying anything you think you know about at this point or anything you could try.
Gold is not easy to get, it takes a good education and understanding, which can take some time to learn, it is also something that is very hard to get started learning, but once you do begin and get past the beginning it becomes easier. It is from the education that you gain the treasure maps to where and how you get gold.
Start your study with dealing with the waste you will find it in the safety section, you can recover the values from the mess you have now, and learn to properly deal with the toxic solutions.
The safety section will be very helpful as you learn these skills, referring to it often will put you closer to your goals.
In the general chat, you will find the general reaction list and the guide to the forum.
Hokes Book does not include electronic scrap, although all of the books will apply to this type of scrap as well as the general principles are the same.
learning these skills is not a simple or fast process, it takes us years to get good at even a portion of these skills, it is something we can study and learn and improve upon for the rest of our lives and still not learn it all.
Gold fever is your enemy, the more desperate you are to get gold the harder it will be for you to get, the fever blinds you and makes you impatient, in your gold rush you pass the gold by, you waste time trying to get gold without doing the hard work of study to learn how to do it safely and properly, which leads you down a rabbit's hole trying to learn how to get out of a mess doing dangerous things you know nothing about.
Forget getting the gold, focus on learning how. And as you learn more you will know where the gold hides and how to get and refine it.
Educating yourself is the treasure map everyone is looking for, it is here for you to learn and study on the forum, have fun there is something exciting for you in everything you study and learn to do or understand, you will find it is not only the treasure map but also a major part of the treasure you are seeking now (not only the gold but the knowledge of it)...
Spending your time studying the forum will get you closer to getting gold and learning to do it safely, the time studying will put you closer than trying anything you think you know about at this point or anything you could try.
Gold is not easy to get, it takes a good education and understanding, which can take some time to learn, it is also something that is very hard to get started learning, but once you do begin and get past the beginning it becomes easier. It is from the education that you gain the treasure maps to where and how you get gold.
Start your study with dealing with the waste you will find it in the safety section, you can recover the values from the mess you have now, and learn to properly deal with the toxic solutions.
The safety section will be very helpful as you learn these skills, referring to it often will put you closer to your goals.
In the general chat, you will find the general reaction list and the guide to the forum.
Hokes Book does not include electronic scrap, although all of the books will apply to this type of scrap as well as the general principles are the same.
learning these skills is not a simple or fast process, it takes us years to get good at even a portion of these skills, it is something we can study and learn and improve upon for the rest of our lives and still not learn it all.
Gold fever is your enemy, the more desperate you are to get gold the harder it will be for you to get, the fever blinds you and makes you impatient, in your gold rush you pass the gold by, you waste time trying to get gold without doing the hard work of study to learn how to do it safely and properly, which leads you down a rabbit's hole trying to learn how to get out of a mess doing dangerous things you know nothing about.
Forget getting the gold, focus on learning how. And as you learn more you will know where the gold hides and how to get and refine it.
Educating yourself is the treasure map everyone is looking for, it is here for you to learn and study on the forum, have fun there is something exciting for you in everything you study and learn to do or understand, you will find it is not only the treasure map but also a major part of the treasure you are seeking now (not only the gold but the knowledge of it)...
A Google translation gave me this:
"I added water, I added a little bit of SMB, something like this came out. anybody have any idea what happened?"
For myself, all I really see is a green solution. Maybe some white sediment on the bottom?
What was the result of stannous testing before and after adding the SMB?
Dave
"I added water, I added a little bit of SMB, something like this came out. anybody have any idea what happened?"
For myself, all I really see is a green solution. Maybe some white sediment on the bottom?
What was the result of stannous testing before and after adding the SMB?
Dave
Please translate your discussions into English.
You diluted the salts by adding water.
SMB may not be able to overcome the nitric or nitrates in solution.
To proceed you need to properly de-NOx the solution and remove nitrate salts in solution.
The yellow ring at the top edge of the glass and the solution is usually an indication of gold in solution, testing will verify if it is gold in solution.
At this point the solution is very dilute and would be very time consuming to use the evaporation technique to remove oxidizers, adding gold and heat would work fine, the simple method would be to use sulfamic acid (sold as a grout cleaner for ceramic tiles) to de-NOx the solution, using your testing solutions stannous chloride and ferrous sulfate crystals, you can determine when the solution will reduce the gold if precipitation is attempted with SMB or some other reducing agent.
The stannous my not show positive for gold if still in solution, or it may redissolve after formed and the purple color disappear if only a little nitric in solution.
The copperas can itself de-NOx the solution in a test, so it can show gold when stannous could not (could not overcome the oxidizer to reduce the gold to metal colloids), the copperas does not reduce the gold to metal colloids like the stannous chloride will, copperas or ferrous sulfate reduces the gold to brown metal powder, that shows up as brown ring of gold in the test...
You diluted the salts by adding water.
SMB may not be able to overcome the nitric or nitrates in solution.
To proceed you need to properly de-NOx the solution and remove nitrate salts in solution.
The yellow ring at the top edge of the glass and the solution is usually an indication of gold in solution, testing will verify if it is gold in solution.
At this point the solution is very dilute and would be very time consuming to use the evaporation technique to remove oxidizers, adding gold and heat would work fine, the simple method would be to use sulfamic acid (sold as a grout cleaner for ceramic tiles) to de-NOx the solution, using your testing solutions stannous chloride and ferrous sulfate crystals, you can determine when the solution will reduce the gold if precipitation is attempted with SMB or some other reducing agent.
The stannous my not show positive for gold if still in solution, or it may redissolve after formed and the purple color disappear if only a little nitric in solution.
The copperas can itself de-NOx the solution in a test, so it can show gold when stannous could not (could not overcome the oxidizer to reduce the gold to metal colloids), the copperas does not reduce the gold to metal colloids like the stannous chloride will, copperas or ferrous sulfate reduces the gold to brown metal powder, that shows up as brown ring of gold in the test...
