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armalaser

New member
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
3
Hi all, new to the forum and appreciate the great info available from some very knowledgeable folks. Have not found any info at all about refining expired industrial electronic-shielding paint that is a silver/copper hybrid. I have a gallon of it, can't be used anymore and was $1200 back in 2006 when we bought it. The daily price changed from the manufacturer due to silver spot price. Here is the data sheet and although it says its plated I can't imagine the silver content being low if the price changed daily:

http://www.laddresearch.com/SpecSheets/60830.pdf

With the other chemicals inside, can anyone refine this or is it a very specialized process?
 
Sure it can be refined. But I would bet it is worth far more as it is to a consumer needing such paint, than its silver content is worth.
 
Here's the MSDS for the solvent that's in it. Sounds fairly nasty. I never liked toluene and 2 of the other ingredients might be worse. The isopropanol is rubbing alcohol.
http://www.laddresearch.com/wsmsds/60845S1msds.pdf

The only way I can think of that the copper powder could possibly be plated is by using an immersion silver bath. No current is used. Immersion silver is exactly the same as the cement silver we have covered in detail on the forum, except there are ingredients in the bath that make it stick tightly to the copper, rather than falling off. The nature of immersion plating is that, when the particle of copper is fully covered with silver, it stops plating This is because, in order to cement the silver, some copper must dissolve. If the copper is totally covered with silver, the solution can't penetrate through the silver in order to dissolve copper. Therefore, the plating reaction stops. You can't cement silver on silver. You must have exposed copper.

Due to all this, the thickness of the silver is limited to about 5 to 10 millionths of an inch thick, at most. Although this is very thin, the total silver could be appreciable if the particle size of the copper is quite small. The smaller the particle size, the larger the total surface area of all the particles. The more surface area, the greater the total amount of silver.

As far as processing, I would have to experiment with it, were it mine. The solvent is nasty and I would think it would have to be removed before the metals could be dissolved in nitric. Burning or evaporation are options, although both could be dangerous. Also, I don't think evaporation would work, since the organic binder in it that makes it stick to a surface would still be there after it dries. You might be able to rinse out all the solvent ingredients with strong alcohol (with little or no water in it) and then dry it, but it would probably take several gallons.

Anyone else have any ideas?
 
Given the nature of this material as pointed out by GSP I'd take Oz,s suggestion. May I suggest you look for an area of the net where this sort of material is advertised and discussed and see if there's a way of offering it for sale to an end user as I dread to think how much this would cost now...
 
goldsilverpro said:
Anyone else have any ideas?
Limited experience, but I did process a small amount of the stuff.
Incineration is key to success (as it usually is).

That's assuming it has no commercial value in the can.

Harold
 
Oz said:
Sure it can be refined. But I would bet it is worth far more as it is to a consumer needing such paint, than its silver content is worth.
The only problem with that is the paint expired 3 years ago, it doesn't paint on smoothly and leaves a clumpy surface behind. Its days as being a useful industrial paint are behind it.
 
If the "solids" in this paint were pure silver... I get about $2525 as the value. I know this is not the case but this number as a starting point might help you decide if you want to go about trying to refine it. Maybe Harold has some numbers on the yeild?
 
goldenchild said:
If the "solids" in this paint were pure silver... I get about $2525 as the value. I know this is not the case but this number as a starting point might help you decide if you want to go about trying to refine it. Maybe Harold has some numbers on the yeild?

I'd love to have it refined. It would be great to try it myself but I just don't have any free time for another project. Any ideas of who to go to for something like this?
 
goldenchild said:
If the "solids" in this paint were pure silver... I get about $2525 as the value. I know this is not the case but this number as a starting point might help you decide if you want to go about trying to refine it. Maybe Harold has some numbers on the yeild?


How do you come up with a number? I couldn't find a particle size. Do you somehow know the particle size?
 
armlaser said:
I'd love to have it refined. It would be great to try it myself but I just don't have any free time for another project. Any ideas of who to go to for something like this?
I would say take it to a refinery or maybe someone on the forum will take a crack at it.

goldsilverpro said:
How do you come up with a number? I couldn't find a particle size. Do you somehow know the particle size?

"Solids content by weight" = 40.7%

6.03 lb/gal is what I used as weight because its after the paint has been sprayed and dried.
 
goldsilverpro said:
How do you come up with a number? I couldn't find a particle size. Do you somehow know the particle size?

"Solids content by weight" =
Unfortunately, that includes all solids, so it's not representative of just the silver. It would likely be the major portion of the solids, however, if you're determining by weight.

I have no records of yields----I simply processed a few samples of dried materials that were taken from a facility that used it regularly. It was of such small interest that I have only a memory of having the experience. I don't recall any details----except that it required incineration to eliminate the bonding agents. I seem to recall a lot of black smoke. I also recall buying gasoline for 23¢/gallon. :lol:

Harold
 
Since its "crumply" that likely means that one or more solvents has already evaporated/deteriorated/converted.
"Which one?" Durned if I know ...
 
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