oldgoldman said:
These were uncovered today. Probably date to around 1980 from a local plane crash. I'll do some research on that topic. I'll try to get the rating plate on them once they are free of debris.
Any help in identifying and valuing them as complete units would be appreciated. There are 4 engines from the plane.
Thanks in advance.
OGM
If all four engines came from the same aircraft I am assuming it must be a commercial or military. I can't gauge the size of the engines, but by the shape, if they were indeed off an aircraft from the 1980s, I am guessing that they are from a 727. The Boeing 727 had four engines, I know what you are thinking, they only show two engines on the back side of the fuselage behind the pressurized section and the one engine that is on the top of the fuselage directly under the tail assembly, but they also have what is called an APU that is actually a jet engine itself to provide power to the aircraft when on the ground, and to start the other three. If it was a 727 from the 80s, it's probably a 727 200, which would make the engines Pratt & Whitney JT8D. But that's assuming a lot of things, I really am taking a wild guess. They could have also, if there are four of them, come off a 707 which had 4 engines, many of the 707s were converted for private use.
In the second picture you posted, it looks like the engine to the back/right has a different turbine configuration. That engine looks more like an APU than a wing or tail unit. It certainly wasn't used as primary thrust, because it does not have enough blades. It also has a dent in it, jet engines are extremely durable and rarely if ever break apart in an accident. That dent looks to me like the plane actually landed on it, which would make sense, the 727 APU sits in the landing gear bay, not in the wing or tail. This was done when the engine in the tail was added during the design because the APU made the tail too heavy. That would lead me to believe that these are 727 engines. But again I am taking a wild guess.
Because aircraft go through so many checks, and because the FAA has very strict guidelines about updated aircraft, you could say if the crash happened in the 80s, that the engines were updated up to that years technology. Or maybe not, perhaps that's what caused the crash? Kidding really, the engines will be compliant with whatever upgrades were required at the time. I was working on Aircraft in the late 80s, early 90s, for United Air Lines. They had the very first 727s that came off the line. I remember in 1989 the aircraft started coming through for their C checks and engine replacements.
The only other commercial aircraft I know of, that crashed, in the 1980s and had 4 engines was a DC-8. But because the DC-8 did not have an APU, and that second picture looks like an engine that would not be used in flight, I still think it to be an APU.
If the blades are made of super alloys, it might have a composition like this:
Composition of Ni based superalloy CMSX4 used since about 1995, these blades might not be exactly this composition, but they also could be close. I mostly worked with airframes and not engines.
Element Ni Co Cr Al Ti Ta Mo W Re Hf
wt% 61.7 9.0 6.5 5.6 1.0 6.5 0.6 6.0 3.0 0.1
at% 63.7 9.3 7.6 12.6 1.3 2.2 0.4 2.0 1.0 0.03
Most hot sections of the blades now days, are going to be single crystal formulations, I am not sure if your engines manufacture date fall before or after this was implemented. Any metals or alloyed used have to be able, to at least retain their structural integrity at around 2000°F. They also must be durable enough to transition from extreme heat to cold, over and over without suffering structural fractures.
The turbine blades almost certainly will contain platinum or be platinum plated.
You will find precious metals mostly in the high-pressure turbine section and fuel delivery system as well as silver and gold in many of the component parts. And I believe if I remember correctly, it's been about 10 years since I attempted to broker a deal for scrap aircraft. But back then about half of the total scrap value of the aircraft was in the engines themselves.
After looking at the pictures again, and comparing the engine to what looks like a gauge close by, I don't think they are large enough to the Pratt & Whitney JT8D. I'm still thrown off by the smaller engine with the wide spaced turbine blades in the back right of the second picture. To me it doesn't seem like an engine used for thrust, but rather power. I am going to still post what I wrote above, I figure it might be of use to someone. Looking at the crashed of 727s around the 80s, there was only one that crashed in the United States. in 1989. There were a couple in the 70s, but not in the 80s.
I am not sure about smaller private aircraft, like Learjets, I cannot remember seeing any that had 4 small engines, or for that matter 3 small engines with an APU. I would be really interested to know more about these engines, can't wait until you post more information.
Here is a picture of a Pratt & Whitney JT8D for comparison.
EDITED: I was comparing the pictures again, if you count the blades from the halfway point in the pictures, and compare them with the picture I provided, you will see the same number of blades. I think this engine could very well be what I suggested before.
Scott
