Looking for a trustworthy refiner in the northeast

[Anonymous]

IF they are all shorting and doing slight of hand, how does anyone sell and get paid? just asssume and expect the loss? or is ebay the only way to get paid for your metal content?

Jim

 

[goldsilverpro]

IF they are all shorting and doing slight of hand, how does anyone sell and get paid? just asssume and expect the loss?

Because rarely does anyone know the value of what they send. Refiners learn how much they can take off the top and get away with, depending on the gray area (the degree of doubt). There is always a gray area. The idea is to take as much as possible and still get repeat business. An old saying is: You can shear a sheep many times, but you can only skin him once.

When refiners, themselves, ship material to a giant refiner or smelter, they reduce the gray area to a minimum by incineration, melting the metallics into refiner's bars, and assaying the bars. Why do they go to all of this expense? Why not just ship the 20 ton pile of scrap that has a 50% gray area? Because they know they would get ripped. Takes one to know one.

 

[Anonymous]

GSP
So for arguments sake, if I had a bar that was a mixture of gold/silver/copper, and its was x troy oz. I would pay for an assay, then ship, and provide the refiner with a copy of the assay? would they accept my assay or want to do thier own? If they do not match, do I tell them send my bar back?

Harold sent platinum sponge, I do not understand were the gray area would be in that, exspecially from him.

jim

 

[4metals]

The grey area is when you don't witness your material. What is to stop a customer from sending in an assay to a refiner and shipping different material. Refiners only accept material they have melted and assayed. The exception being large customers who send in big bars, quite often they are just drilled and checked.

Most reading this forum will not have sufficient quantity to fit that class of collector hence always witness your melt and always assay your samples.

I work with medium to large refiners all of the time, most ship their metals to larger refiners, none of them have issues with their payouts for the lots. Of course, they witness the lots or pay Inspectorate Griffith or the like to witness for them.

 

[goldsilverpro]

So for arguments sake, if I had a bar that was a mixture of gold/silver/copper, and its was x troy oz. I would pay for an assay, then ship, and provide the refiner with a copy of the assay? would they accept my assay or want to do thier own? If they do not match, do I tell them send my bar back?

Harold sent platinum sponge, I do not understand were the gray area would be in that, exspecially from him.

All this depends on the agreement you have with the refiner.

I once worked for a refiner that had a large customer that made wedding rings. About once a month, a guy would bring many 100s of oz of karat gold scrap to our facility. He witnessed the melting and casting of the bars and, at the end, we would pull samples for the both of us. During the melting, someone would suggest a cup of coffee. While the guy was getting his coffee, the melter would add a little copper to the melt.

I was talking about electronic scrap in my post.

With almost anything, however, there is a gray area. With bullion, it may only be 1 or 2 percent. In Harold's case, there was a gray area, even though it was small. I doubt if Harold was setup to assay his Pt. If they had only taken 1 or 2%, he probably would have been happy. About the only thing I can think of without a gray area is a coin minted by the U.S., such as a pre-65 silver quarter.

I've been writing about this gray area, and how it's taken advantage of by the refiners, for 40 years. I define the "gray area" as the customer's percentage of doubt. It has to do with how much they will accept, without getting pissed off. The most successful refiners work this gray area to the max, although they don't analyze it as I do. They just do it unconsciously.

 

[Anonymous]

Seems Ebay may be the best place to sell after all.

Jim

Edit,
I have just went over and checked on scrap prices on ebay, man, its worse than ever, if I sell anything it will definately be sold there.

Jim

 

[EDI Refining]

I once worked for a refiner that had a large customer that made wedding rings. About once a month, a guy would bring many 100s of oz of karat gold scrap to our facility. He witnessed the melting and casting of the bars and, at the end, we would pull samples for the both of us. During the melting, someone would suggest a cup of coffee. While the guy was getting his coffee, the melter would add a little copper to the melt.

Wasn't a before and after melt weight recorded?

 

[Anonymous]

Seems Ebay may be the best place to sell after all.

Jim

Edit,
I have just went over and checked on scrap prices on ebay, man, its worse than ever, if I sell anything it will definately be sold there.

Jim

I sold all my 10K dental gold solder, plus all the box's of dental crowns and some appliance's containing white metals on ebay. I was more than pleased with the results, those listing and PP fees look good when your getting better than spot.

What really surprised me is after the buyer pays and you ship, you never hear a peep from them again, not so much as feedback.

Good luck with your auctions.

 

[aflacglobal]

Pull an ounce of karat gold from the melt and replace it with an ounce of copper. If your talking about 200 plus ounces this will only dilute the volume by 1/2 of 1 percent or less. Could bring you an extra few hundred dollars on that lot alone. Not to mention the other slight of hands. Just enough doubt that you would not think to question it.

The gray area.

 

[nickvc]

Having worked for one of the major players i know that the grey area is huge,when paying for sweeps the usual payout was 28% rising to a maximum of 50%. The biggest laugh was when a new group refining manager started shipping the powders to Italy for recovery,we got 8 kilos more than expected, but the senior management went mad, and it was then only sent to our own refinery where we were always short on expectations :shock: If you want to sell then learn to sample properly or melt and assay if you can, even if they wont accept the assay they know your on the ball and cant rip you as badly,even insist on the metal to be held until you reach agreement on the assays, or find a refiner happy to accept your assay they exist,i can now trade powders with assays so long as ive done the preparation.Find out what the refinery will accept as far as own sampling goes if you need to crush and screen or incinerate find a way to do so if you want true results.

 

[shadybear]

I have a few thousand lbs of e waste material stock that I want to refine.

Can anyone vouch for either "SPECIALTY METALS" in Connecticut or "123 PRECIOUS METAL REFINERY" in North Carolina. 123PMR quoted 80% buy after assay, where SM quoted 98% buy after assay with upfront processing fees. Turn around time for 123 (no mother boards) is two weeks: mother boards is 30 days. SM turn around is three weeks for cards and cpus and I beleive they quoted me 45 days for mother boards

I am concerned about trust and efficiency of refine (losses.)

I am open to suggestions. I live in the North East and would prefer to establish relationship with a reputable and trustworthy refiner any where from Mass. to Pa. I have access to an endless e waste supply and am looking for a long term relationship!

No soliciters for scrap purchase: please, I am having refined myself

I would highgrade this scrap! Remove chips, fingers and whatever else I could for resell on e-bay.
I know you want to have it refined yourself but for the highest return E-bay is the way
to go and I would think you would want to seperate for best value stuff even at a big refiner
you wouldnt want to have it all mixed together

 

[goldsilverpro]

P3M,

Wasn't a before and after melt weight recorded?

Sorry. I left out the dipping out of some and replacing it with copper. I guess I just assumed the dipping out part.

 

[4metals]

I knew of a refiner who was caught concealing a vacuum pin dip in a hole drilled in the end of a graphite stir rod. He would stir the melt and a 1 ounce pin would lodge itself in the stirring rod. since the melt was fluxed the end of the stir rod had a slag coating and the pin was not noticed.

He dropped the stir rod once after using it and it split open exposing the hidden dip. Busted

After a lifetime in this business, I could tell some stories.

 

[chrisp]

I have a friend that owns a you pull it and deals with paper and plastic he's dealt with specialty for years before that he investigated everyone and apparently SM came out on top his most recent batch was 7000 catalytic convertors he hasn't complained yet but I'm tryin to get him to let me process them since I've learned how but as far as e scrap I'm checking into sims recycling they seem to be my best bet for a half ton of au plted connectors they can get result from 6 ounces but I gotta send pics and wait for my contact to get back with some avg amounts for wht I have he explained the process they use to make dore bars and I'm sure it's more efficient than anything I could do just check into it if you want sims metal management his name is danny let me know how you make out

 

[Barren Realms 007]

as far as e scrap I'm checking into sims recycling they seem to be my best bet for a half ton of au plted connectors they can get result from 6 ounces but I gotta send pics and wait for my contact to get back with some avg amounts for wht I have he explained the process they use to make dore bars and I'm sure it's more efficient than anything I could do just check into it if you want sims metal management his name is danny let me know how you make out

So they are going to melt your material down and do an assay of it to figure your price. That does sound more promising than deplating now dosen't it.

 

[Noxx]

I have a friend that owns a you pull it and deals with paper and plastic he's dealt with specialty for years before that he investigated everyone and apparently SM came out on top his most recent batch was 7000 catalytic convertors he hasn't complained yet but I'm tryin to get him to let me process them since I've learned how but as far as e scrap I'm checking into sims recycling they seem to be my best bet for a half ton of au plted connectors they can get result from 6 ounces but I gotta send pics and wait for my contact to get back with some avg amounts for wht I have he explained the process they use to make dore bars and I'm sure it's more efficient than anything I could do just check into it if you want sims metal management his name is danny let me know how you make out

Chrip, please used periods. You know, the punctuation mark commonly placed at the end of sentences... I'm sure you'll get far more readers.

 

[WisdomView]

Manhattan Gold & Silver http://www.mgsrefining.com/ With 25 years of customer loyalty by
dealing honestly, fairly, and quickly. Adam is the man!

As many people already know, Manhattan Gold & Silver is located in the
Diamond District of NYC. The Diamond District is located on West 47th
Street between Fifth Avenue and Sixth Avenue. While some jewelers
have their own shops along this strip, most have booths in the 25
jewelry exchanges located in this area. Each exchange can have as
many as 100 separate jewelry or related businesses. In this situation,
you don’t have to travel very far to find what you may be looking
for. Simply move five steps in either direction and you will see
completely different inventory. The Diamond District is made up of
approximately 2,600 independent businesses, all of them dealing in
diamonds, jewelry, gold and other precious metals and stones.

 

[Anonymous]

Harold please do not spam the forum.
If you want to make a recommendation,by all means please do.But please do not copy and paste entire paragraphs from their website.
Also we do have a catagory for businesses to be listed http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=84
You are more than welcome to list them there as well.
Oh I almost forgot.......welcome to the forum.

 

[Harold_V]

I have a friend that owns a you pull it and deals with paper and plastic he's dealt with specialty for years before that he investigated everyone and apparently SM came out on top his most recent batch was 7000 catalytic convertors he hasn't complained yet but I'm tryin to get him to let me process them since I've learned how but as far as e scrap I'm checking into sims recycling they seem to be my best bet for a half ton of au plted connectors they can get result from 6 ounces but I gotta send pics and wait for my contact to get back with some avg amounts for wht I have he explained the process they use to make dore bars and I'm sure it's more efficient than anything I could do just check into it if you want sims metal management his name is danny let me know how you make out

Chrip, please used periods. You know, the punctuation mark commonly placed at the end of sentences... I'm sure you'll get far more readers.

Yep---I agree. When you run words together, I, for one, quickly lose interest and ignore the post. If it's not important enough for a reader to address the board with proper manners and at least reasonable use of the English language, why should it be important for me to try to decipher a poorly delivered question or message?

When readers post here, the quickest way to get ignored is to post as if you're texting-----or to ignore common courtesy. And, PLEASE remember---spell check is your friend.

It is important that readers, at least here, use proper language and spelling, including the use of punctuation. The slightest miscue can change the entire meaning of a message, which can lead to some serious issues for those that don't understand.

Harold

 

[Harold_V]

Harold please do not spam the forum.

Ok, I'll do my best to avoid doing so.

Examples, please?

Harold