mlcc recovery

[SwissChem]

Hello,
I have few noob question.
I see that some people are using only chemical to extract palladium but in another post some one heat them and use which is called cupellation. What's the benefit?
Does it really change if you grind them befor treating with chemicals?
What's the difference between magnetic and non magnetic? Some say magnetic one are useless.
I know most if not all of this treat should be treated befor, so if you can just add the link to the discussion, i can look on it.
To admin: Dont know if i post it in right place.
Sorry for my noobish, i am organic chemist, but like to start extraction as hobby or small to medium scale.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Welcome to the forum SwissChem.

While I have not yet processed any MLCCs, I'll try to give you my understanding of them.

Processing them via wet chemistry seems to be a problem. If you don't crush them, you will miss some of the values. If you crush them, they will be difficult to filter, which will lead to losses of some values. :evil:

Magnetic vs. non-magnetic: It seems older MLCCs were the ones that contained values (palladium and/or silver), and they are generally non-magnetic (at least to a regular magnet). In newer ones seem, the precious metals have been replaced by non-precious metals, like nickel, which are magnetic, so many advocate sorting with a magnet, and only processing those that are non-magnetic. But stronger magnets, like those extracted from computer hard drives, may be attracted to some MLCCs that contain values.

Some of our experienced members prefer to process MLCCs via smelting and/or cupellation, which avoids the problems of wet chemistry.

I have not yet processed any MLCCs (though I have a lot that I'd like to try one day), so don't accept my post as gospel. I hope that others will add to what I've said, and correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't have any links at hand, but if you use the search function, you'll probably become more knowledgeable than me.

Best of luck in your quest!

Dave

 

[SwissChem]

Thank you very much.
So the aim is that there is no value in new mlcc.
For filtering wet past i have vacuum pomp, so it's not the problem.
But it's bad that there is no more valuable things in new mlcc...

 

[jarlowski1]

Yeah the newer mlccs are really not worth your time. I did a pound of them all were magnetic and crushed up. I did it using the wet method and ended up with .74g palladium.

 

[snoman701]

Filtering will still be a problem...it's the value entrainment/entrapment in the powder. it's similar to silver chloride. Not just separation of liquid from solid.

If the Pd is held as PdO, as is very possible from the manufacturing process, it will be insoluble.

 

[jarlowski1]

Makes sense. Then smelting them would convert the PdO back to Pd. Although I haven't tried smelting any yet.

 

[SwissChem]

Filtering will still be a problem...it's the value entrainment/entrapment in the powder. it's similar to silver chloride. Not just separation of liquid from solid.

If the Pd is held as PdO, as is very possible from the manufacturing process, it will be insoluble.

I see...but which melting process do you advise? I saw one youtube, which i think everybody seen, it's the guy who are melting 40 kilo mlcc...His process looks strange, mostly the cupellation, i dont even know how i can do it with my fournace...
Do you have any suggestion?

 

[SwissChem]

Makes sense. Then smelting them would convert the PdO back to Pd. Although I haven't tried smelting any yet.

Do you think you get that bad yield because of the proces ( i mean not melting... ) or do you still think its not valuable?

 

[anachronism]

Smelting recovers far more of the values than using chemicals as Sno has quite rightly said.

That given the modern stuff really is very very low in yields. From experience some of the older stuff I have here has yielded 57g of Pd per Kg...

 

[SwissChem]

Smelting recovers far more of the values than using chemicals as Sno has quite rightly said.

That given the modern stuff really is very very low in yields. From experience some of the older stuff I have here has yielded 57g of Pd per Kg...

So that mean in best case you get like 5.7%. Did you tryed with new mlcc to see the difference?
Could you give me a link to do it with melting process?

 

[kurtak]

Do you think you get that bad yield because of the proces ( i mean not melting... ) or do you still think its not valuable?

Due to the increasing cost of PMs (Precious Metals) in the mid 1990s company's that made MLCCs "quite" using Pd & Ag (as an alloy) to make their MLCCs & switched to making them with nickel & copper (as an alloy)

So - BEFORE the mid 1990s the MLCCS are called PM (Precious Metal) MLCCs

AFTER the mid 1990s they are called BM (Base Metal) MLCCs

So - if the MLCCs come from CBs (circuit boards) made "after" the mid 1990s there will be little to NO Pd/Ag in them & therefore are NOT worth processing

Because of nickel in the BM-MLCCs they are magnetic

Wet chemical processing does not work well because what happens is the ceramic brakes down to an ULTRA fine mud - like clay - so it is next to impossible to filter it - a vacuum filter will actually cause the clay/mud to "pack" tight bringing the filtering to near a halt (stopping the filtering) - the reason why smelting is a better process

To clarify - they do still make PM-MLCCs --- BUT - they are ONLY used in VERY high end CBs such as AERO-space & military stuff --- you will NOT find them in everyday "consumer" made electronics

Kurt

 

[SwissChem]

Hello,
Thank you. It's very clear. So better dont process them.
Dam it...i found few sources, but they all most be recent.

 

[anachronism]

Search for Owltech and his videos on youtube.