Muriatic+Clorox to recover gold from ore.

[rwoodin]

Hi all,
First post here. I've been gradualy gaining interest in refining gold from ore - hard rocks and creek sand.
I have searched and read many postings on HCL30% and Clorox leach.
I purchased what I think are the requisite items and I have followed instructions near as I can
I have bleach, clorox (2 gallons generic bleach and 1 gallon of clorox pro outdoor), 2 gallons muriatic acid HCL30%, 1 pound stump out sodium disulfite, pots, pans, buckets, respirator P100, safety googles, pvc gloves, baking soda, graphite crucible, borax acid, propane torch...
So basically starting a couple weeks ago, I poured muriatic about 2 times volume of ' 3 garden trowels of creek sand' into a bucket and leached for around 16 hours and diluted and disposed solution. the sand had gone from a medium brown before leach to a blonde/grey after leach - a marked difference. So at about 5:15pm last night I poured muriatic to the 6 cups line on an old coffee pot and slowly mixed into the bucket of ore. I then added, I would like to say I measured, but really I just poured from jug of clorox slowly for about a second or 2...probably less than 1/2 cup as measued by coffee pot. The stuff fizzed up real good right away. I mixed with...a big stick...for a minute and then put sealed lid on and sloshed bucket around a bit. I repeated clorox addition/mixing 3 more times till about 1am - I added much smalled amounts of clorox each time then the first time. Then I let the tightly sealed bucket site overnight. About 1pm today I 'decanted' the solution to a clean coffee pot - I know some silt got in but I wanted to get all that there gold juice! So now the pot is sitting on the beck deck - because I read that leaving 'pregnant' solution in sunlight evaporates excess chlorine. Later today I will decant this coffee pot into yet another vessel...(have to check around and see what I can find and what my wife will let me use...). At that point I will add SMB and that brings me to my question. Do I really need to heat this solution or can I just add SMB in to drop at room temperature? Following that, I'm (of course) hoping to see the brown gold precipitate accumulate on the bottom of vessel, decant solution and dry precipitate, then mix with in crucible with flux and torch my first 24 carat solid gold button! Or...whatever comes out out this experiment.
As a disclaimer, I have no idea if there is gold in the sand. I wanted to try this 'just to see of it worked'. Attached are 3 pics of solution now in coffee pot. There is about an inch of whitesh material settled in bottom. Salt?

Thanks for any comments/advise you may have.

 

[Harold_V]

I read no mention of testing. What makes you think you'll have gold?
Have you read Hoke's book? If so, did you happen to pick up on the idea of using stannous chloride?

Harold

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Hi all,
Thanks for any comments/advise you may have.

First, welcome to the forum. While most members don't deal with ores, there is quite a bit of information on the forum, especially in the Prospecting, Mining,... section.

You've obviously done some studying, but I can see a number of areas where you need to do some more work. You mention gaining an interest in hard rocks and creek sands. There are a lot of differences between the two. You could probably benefit from more safety equipment, like a full face shield and apron. Never rely on a respirator as your primary fume control. Set up systems to isolate yourself from the fumes. You probably won't enjoy too much success trying to melt gold in a graphite crucible with a propane torch.

So basically starting a couple weeks ago, I poured muriatic about 2 times volume of ' 3 garden trowels of creek sand' into a bucket and leached for around 16 hours and diluted and disposed solution.

Did you test it for values before you disposed of it?

the sand had gone from a medium brown before leach to a blonde/grey after leach - a marked difference. So at about 5:15pm last night I poured muriatic to the 6 cups line on an old coffee pot and slowly mixed into the bucket of ore. I then added, I would like to say I measured, but really I just poured from jug of clorox slowly for about a second or 2...probably less than 1/2 cup as measued by coffee pot. The stuff fizzed up real good right away. I mixed with...a big stick...for a minute and then put sealed lid on and sloshed bucket around a bit.

When experimenting, it's a good idea to measure things and record what you do so you can either repeat the process if it's successful, or try to modify it if it isn't. Never introduce organics, like sticks, into these solutions. Don't seal these reactions. Pressure can build up and cause your vessel to fail.

I repeated clorox addition/mixing 3 more times till about 1am - I added much smalled amounts of clorox each time then the first time. Then I let the tightly sealed bucket site overnight. About 1pm today I 'decanted' the solution to a clean coffee pot - I know some silt got in but I wanted to get all that there gold juice! So now the pot is sitting on the beck deck - because I read that leaving 'pregnant' solution in sunlight evaporates excess chlorine.

Why do you believe you have gold juice? I didn't see any mention of having tested your solution. It's only a pregnant solution if it contains the metal(s) you're after.

Later today I will decant this coffee pot into yet another vessel...(have to check around and see what I can find and what my wife will let me use...).

Once you use something in your refining process, you should NEVER use it for food again.

At that point I will add SMB and that brings me to my question. Do I really need to heat this solution or can I just add SMB in to drop at room temperature? Following that, I'm (of course) hoping to see the brown gold precipitate accumulate on the bottom of vessel, decant solution and dry precipitate, then mix with in crucible with flux and torch my first 24 carat solid gold button! Or...whatever comes out out this experiment.
As a disclaimer, I have no idea if there is gold in the sand. I wanted to try this 'just to see of it worked'. Attached are 3 pics of solution now in coffee pot. There is about an inch of whitesh material settled in bottom. Salt?

This is where you really lost me. You're going to add SMB to a solution that you haven't tested for gold, and you have no idea if there was any gold in the sand, "just to see of it worked". How will you know if anything worked?

I'm not trying to be harsh. I'm just pointing out some flaws I see in your reasoning and process. I encourage you to continue to read and study. You'll find a link to C. M. Hoke's book on refining in my signature line. While it doesn't deal with ores, it will teach you how to test for values in solution. Read through the safety section. These chemicals are dangerous.

I wish you luck on your quest,
Dave

 

[rwoodin]

Thanks for the replies. I do appreciate them. I have to get tin powder and make some stannous chloride. I have started Hokes book and realised I am posting in ignorance. Please excuse or if not that, please understand I will not post again until I read and research much more.

 

[pinman]

One of the best replies to criticism I've seen yet on this board. Welcome aboard sir.

 

[Gratilla]

Some years back I tried various permutations of what you describe, using primarily black sand containing known (small) amounts of gold and from low concentration (local version) household "chlorox" to high concentration industrial sodium hypochlorite (NaClO). And, more often than not, I got pretty much the same results you show in your pics.

At this point I ASSumed I had gold (specifically chloroauric acid, HAuCl4 - which is YELLOW), extrapolated my recoverable values from the (large) amount or ore I had at hand and started mentally spending my "profits"! Imagine my disappointment when I discovered I had iron (specifically iron (III) chloride aka ferric chloride, which is also YELLOW!)

In the absence of any assays/tests (recommended above), my first guess is that you also have ferric chloride. A quick (and dirty test) for this would be to take a small sample (say 2-3 cm in a test tube) and raise the pH (with, say, sodium hydroxide solution). If at around pH3 you get a yellow precipitate (You don't mention having any pH measuring equipment), don't start planning on buying a Mercedes.

 

[butcher]

While reading Hoke's check out page 100 (test for Iron).

 

[Harold_V]

Thanks for the replies. I do appreciate them. I have to get tin powder and make some stannous chloride. I have started Hokes book and realised I am posting in ignorance. Please excuse or if not that, please understand I will not post again until I read and research much more.

Great attitude.

I'm not so concerned about your posting as I am your wasting your time. The only thing that will lead to is frustration. Do not work blindly. It serves no real purpose.

I've been down the road of playing with ores, at least to some degree. I've even recovered values, but you waste your time when you assume things instead of performing much needed testing. And--don't jump to conclusions if you can see visible gold. It may look good, but not be.

I related a sad story in that regard some time ago, whereby a neighbor, his father-in-law and a third party spent a summer working a deposit. The area was remote, so when the FIL had a heart attack there was no aid, and he died. All of this because they could see visible gold. After three months work and the death of the FIL they were rewarded with just over five ounces of gold, which, at the time, worked out to about $500/month for three workers. A rather costly venture, to be sure. Had they invested in a head assay, they'd have had realistic expectations. At no time did they have their material assayed. They were working blindly.

Harold

 

[rwoodin]

OK I understand what your saying... I'm in the Piedmont area of North Carolina. I think I may have read about all the gold in this region for long enough to convince myself of the untold riches that were just lying in wait to be found, mere inches beneath my feet. I panned over the last few months, finding lots of small garnet but no visible gold. I reasoned the next step would be to try leaching. But I really do appreciate all your comments. If I'm really going to get into this, there is absolutely no reason to be working blind. Textbook gold fever I suppose. Wanting to believe somthin don't make it so. thanks again. Your comments were exactly what I needed to hear to turn the lightbulb in my head on. :idea:

 

[rickbb]

I'm in the same part of NC and have taken to the habit of breaking open every chunk of quartz I find. Sometimes I swear I see little bits of gold in there. lol

I even have started panning some of the creeks and finding lots of black sands.

I take it home, crush it, roast it, disolve it and test with stannous, nope, no gold. I have found lots of iron. :|

But it's fun and I'm learning, which is why I do it in the first place.