Need help identifying this type of scrap

[icejj]

Hello all. I am looking for help identifying the type of scrap pictured. The scrap came from an unknown source. They appear to be gold plated pins from electronic devices, but I'm not experienced enough to say that for sure just be looking at them. The last 3 pics depict each pin with a drop of 14k test acid at the top of each "pin" and a drop of 10k test acid below each 14k test acid droplet. After wiping off the droplets, it seemed as if each "pin" passed both tests, although the droplets on the two long "pins" on the right side of the pic appeared barely slightly discolored. I processed each "pin" in dilute nitric and the gold came off in foils, pretty much retaining the original shape of the "pins". I would like to know if anyone knows this type of material, so that I could possibly calculate potential yield. Furthermore, since the foils came off in the shape of the original "pins", and since the "pins" appeared to pass the acid tests, is it possible that the foils are thick enough to be considered gold filled vs gold plated??? Any thoughts on potential yield of these types of "pins" per pound?

 

[Martijn]

I would expect about 2 to 3 grams per kilo yield.

 

[kurtak]

I would expect about 2 to 3 grams per kilo yield.

Depends somewhat on when they were made - they have been making those type pins for MANY years

I have processed those type pins that were made in the 80s & 90s that yielded 6 - 7 grams per kilo

But yes - new pin of this type run "about" 3 grams per kilo

Edit to add; - generally speaking newer pins use less plating where as older pins used heavier plating

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Furthermore, since the foils came off in the shape of the original "pins"

Just now read this part of your post (just looked at the pics earlier) but if that is the case they may well run in 6 - 7 grams per kilo yield

is it possible that the foils are thick enough to be considered gold filled vs gold plated???

Gold filled is a karat gold foil (like 10 karat or 12 karat etc.) that is pressure & heat adhered to the base metal not plated to the base metal

What you have is "plated" pins that should be 24 karat plating

If the plating is coming off the pins as "thick" foils much like the thick foils of gold filled - then you should see a yield of "about" 6 - 7 grams per kilo (or at least 5 grams per kilo)

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

& for what it is worth - the highest yield pins I have ever seen ran about 12 grams per kilo --- the came out of "old" microwave gear

Edit to add; - the plating was so thick I had to boil them in nitric in order for the acid to get under the gold & dissolve the brass away

Kurt

 

[mmzhr]

Hello all. I am looking for help identifying the type of scrap pictured. The scrap came from an unknown source. They appear to be gold plated pins from electronic devices, but I'm not experienced enough to say that for sure just be looking at them. The last 3 pics depict each pin with a drop of 14k test acid at the top of each "pin" and a drop of 10k test acid below each 14k test acid droplet. After wiping off the droplets, it seemed as if each "pin" passed both tests, although the droplets on the two long "pins" on the right side of the pic appeared barely slightly discolored. I processed each "pin" in dilute nitric and the gold came off in foils, pretty much retaining the original shape of the "pins". I would like to know if anyone knows this type of material, so that I could possibly calculate potential yield. Furthermore, since the foils came off in the shape of the original "pins", and since the "pins" appeared to pass the acid tests, is it possible that the foils are thick enough to be considered gold filled vs gold plated??? Any thoughts on potential yield of these types of "pins" per pound?

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depend on thickness of gold i expect 3 - 5 grams per 1 kilogram

 

[icejj]

I've provided pics of the pins after getting rid of the base metals, for anyone that this may help, and to provide more clarity. There are two different tubes pictured. Thank you all for your responses!

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Gloves are your friend. Acids gas out of solution, then condense on the outside of your beakers, flasks, test tubes, etc. So, even if you've poured carefully and not gotten any solution on the outside, it will "creep" and make it to the outside.

I spent a couple of years in high school with yellow fingers from working with nitric acid as a chemistry aide.

Dave

 

[icejj]

Gloves are your friend. Acids gas out of solution, then condense on the outside of your beakers, flasks, test tubes, etc. So, even if you've poured carefully and not gotten any solution on the outside, it will "creep" and make it to the outside.

I spent a couple of years in high school with yellow fingers from working with nitric acid as a chemistry aide.

Dave

Thank you for the reminder. I noticed that every now and then I'll get a yellow spot or two just from touching a beaker when my gloves aren't on, so I try to remember to use them anytime I handle any glassware.

 

[Martijn]

I've provided pics of the pins after getting rid of the base metals, for anyone that this may help, and to provide more clarity. There are two different tubes pictured. Thank you all for your responses! View attachment 57906View attachment 57907View attachment 57908View attachment 57909View attachment 57910View attachment 57911View attachment 57912View attachment 57913View attachment 57914View attachment 57915View attachment 57916

Now those are some nice thick foils!! Yield could be as high as Kurt said.
Have fun refining them!

 

[jphayesjr]

test tube grippers / tongs work too, but I get you're very hands-on. After freeing up the foils, how do you prefer to separate them from the substrate objects (e.g. pins)?

 

[icejj]

test tube grippers / tongs work too, but I get you're very hands-on. After freeing up the foils, how do you prefer to separate them from the substrate objects (e.g. pins)?

Thanks, I'll look into the grippers and tongs, they might be useful for me. I do prefer hands on, but I'm open to changing things up, especially for safety measures. I'm not sure what you mean by separating them from the substrate objects after freeing up the foils... can you explain? From my experience, after freeing up the foils, I would dissolve the foils in hydrochloric acid + oxidizer of choice (i.e. bleach, peroxide, sodium nitrate, etc.) ... I'm not sure what you mean by how would I "separate them from the substrate objects" after "freeing up the foils" if the foils have already been separated from the base metals...?

 

[icejj]

Now those are some nice thick foils!! Yield could be as high as Kurt said.
Have fun refining them!

Thanks! They are some nice looking foils, but based on the projected yield from what you, myself, @kurtak , and @mmzhr came up with, I'll likely return the pins from where I bought them from. The pins made up a fraction of a batch of gold filled material that I purchased, but since it doesn't seem like I'll be getting a gold filled yield from them, I'm going to return them.

 

[jphayesjr]

After the foils detach from the item they were attached to, you have a container of, for example, acidic liquid, pins, foils. I was asking how do you separate the pins and foils?

 

[Yggdrasil]

After the foils detach from the item they were attached to, you have a container of, for example, acidic liquid, pins, foils. I was asking how do you separate the pins and foils?

To me it seems like the pins are dissolved

 

[icejj]

After the foils detach from the item they were attached to, you have a container of, for example, acidic liquid, pins, foils. I was asking how do you separate the pins and foils?

Oh I think I see what you're saying. So I used 50/50 dilute nitric (a mixture which consisted of a ratio of half distilled water and the other half to be 68-70% nitric) to separate/dissolve the base metals of the pins from "underneath" the foils. So the pins are actually already dissolved in the acidic liquid, hence the blue color. The dilute nitric is essentially what separates the pins from the foils. In the pictures of the test tubes, the pins are already dissolved/separated and just the foils are left over. Since I only have foils and the solution/liquid which contains the dissolved pins, I separate the foils from the liquid by filtering it through a funnel with filter paper. Did that help?

 

[icejj]

To me it seems like the pins are dissolved

Yes the pins are dissolved. I tried to edit my response that has the test tubes attached to it, as it might've been confusing, but I don't see the edit option. The first sentence of that response should read "I've provided pics of the foils after getting rid of the base metals"

 

[jphayesjr]

Oh I think I see what you're saying. So I used 50/50 dilute nitric (a mixture which consisted of a ratio of half distilled water and the other half to be 68-70% nitric) to separate/dissolve the base metals of the pins from "underneath" the foils. So the pins are actually already dissolved in the acidic liquid, hence the blue color. The dilute nitric is essentially what separates the pins from the foils. In the pictures of the test tubes, the pins are already dissolved/separated and just the foils are left over. Since I only have foils and the solution/liquid which contains the dissolved pins, I separate the foils from the liquid by filtering it through a funnel with filter paper. Did that help?

Thanks, glad you're pleased with your method. I'm studying up on methods that don't entirely dissolve the pin (or whatever gold plated object). The methods dissolve the base layer(s) of plating (which may be copper, nickel, tin, or sometimes lower carat gold and Ag/pt/ pd) and just enough base metal so the detached foils can be shaken off. I have about 40 kg of GF 1/20 YELLOW, 15 KG OF WHITE GF with the old French fill marking and designated ET so the fill is less than 18k. Dissolving this amount of base metal entirely requires a lot of acid, and may have to work on the liquid to limit loss, and control waste impact. My experience with French white gold has shown it is frequently an electrum hardened with significant addition of PT or PD, and frequently replayed with rhodium to keep it gleaming.So, when I am tired of accumulating more, I'll test, then work on small batches.

 

[jphayesjr]

To me it seems like the pins are dissolved

He confirmed, thanks. I wasn't exactly sure. I've seen interesting methods that don't require entirely dissolving the substrate metal. I'm working on one that is best for me. I have gold filled jewelry and other items, and e-scrap, a lot of it military. After that, I have to get to work on some carat gold scrap, very rich ores from my claims. One is several kilos of nuggets of Braggite, one is pt/ pd ores, one is gold/rhodium ore, the last is crystalline iridium ore chunks I gathered a long time ago at a meteor impact site. I have a refiner eager to work on the ores. They've been assayed competently. We'll see. Some arguments are non-starters. I could do it myself, my wife will weigh in. I'll be post photos of samples when I visit my vault, hope the group likes them.

 

[icejj]

Thanks, glad you're pleased with your method. I'm studying up on methods that don't entirely dissolve the pin (or whatever gold plated object). The methods dissolve the base layer(s) of plating (which may be copper, nickel, tin, or sometimes lower carat gold and Ag/pt/ pd) and just enough base metal so the detached foils can be shaken off. I have about 40 kg of GF 1/20 YELLOW, 15 KG OF WHITE GF with the old French fill marking and designated ET so the fill is less than 18k. Dissolving this amount of base metal entirely requires a lot of acid, and may have to work on the liquid to limit loss, and control waste impact. My experience with French white gold has shown it is frequently an electrum hardened with significant addition of PT or PD, and frequently replayed with rhodium to keep it gleaming.So, when I am tired of accumulating more, I'll test, then work on small batches.

Oh okay. So you were thinking that I could've separated the foils from the pins without dissolving all of the pins... hence the inquiry about what do I do to separate the foils from the liquid and essentially partially dissolved pins? Right? I see now. Yeah unfortunately I had to dissolve all of the base metals, as I don't know of any other method like you described. If you know of any methods that one could use to separate the foils from the base metals of gold filled material without dissolving all of the base metals, please share, as it would help me tremendously. I have a decent amount of gold filled material to process, so it would be helpful.