New Silver cell

[command2001]

Ok - in looking at the pic of your cell set up - it "looks" like you have a "connection" problem (but pictures can be deceiving)

In other words - it "looks" like you do not have a good "solid" connection of the positive lead from the power supply to the silver in the anode basket - it looks like a "loose" connection

First of all - it looks like you are using the "poured silver shot" method for the silver in your anode basket (molten silver poured into water to make small beads of silver)

However - it looks like when you poured the silver into the water you did not do it so that it created smaller beads but rather it created "larger" blobs/chunks

So - instead of lots of small beads touching closer & tighter together - the larger blobs - though touching each other are doing so in a loose way preventing "proper" flow of the current (amps) though the silver

Also - it looks like you stuck the copper end of your positive lead wire in a pool of molten silver which then sits on top of the rest of the shot in the anode basket & that can cause a loose connection in 2 ways ------

1) if the copper wire & the silver did not actually fuzz together - then though the copper wire is stuck in the silver blob it may not be a "tight" connection of the copper with silver = loose connection preventing proper current flow

2) if the silver blob with the wire stuck in it is not heavy enough it may well be sitting on top of the rest of the shot in anode basket in a loose manner rather then sitting on top of the rest of the shot in a hard tight manner

Any one of &/or a combination of the above loose connection problems can & will prevent proper current flow

Though a lot of people use the silver shot method I am not a big fan of that method for the above reasons

I much more prefer pouring "solid" anode bars (pic provided) in that pic - the bar sitting on top of the 2 bars has a hole drilled in the top of it - that hole is then taped to thread a 10/32 brass screw into the hole --- so the lead from the power supply makes a sold connection to the brass screw - the threaded brass screw makes a solid connection with the top bar - the top bar is heavy enough that it makes a solid connection with the 2 actual anode bars

Also - other things that will limit current flow (even if you have tight connections)

Anode to cathode surface area - you have a very large cathode area (stainless steel bowl) but you have a very small anode basket so a very small anode surface area - so your small anode surface area is trying to spread a small current output across a very large cathode surface area --- in my cell you can see that my anode surface area is much larger then yours & at the same time my cathode surface area is only about two & a half times larger then my anode surface area - that means I have much more "current density" taking place in my cell

Also - it "looks" like you have several layers of cloth for your anode bag - if your anode bag is to thick/heavy it will act as an insulator preventing proper/full flow of the current (amps) through the anode bag

Finally - question - how many holes & what size holes do you have in the bottom of your anode basket - please provide a pic

I ask because if you don't have enough holes &/or the holes are not large enough you are again restricting current flow &/or current density just like to small of an anode surface area &/or to thick of an anode bag

Edit to add; - & for what it is worth - my cell (in the pics) is a 4 litter cell - the anode bars are kilo bars of silver --- so that gives you a better idea of the anode surface area to the cathode surface area

Kurt

How did you construct your cathode and it looks like your anode is only slightly in the electrolyte. Is that correct?

 

[Shark]

It is possible to at least remove some of the slimes by washing. The best method is to avoid them to start with. Especially if highest purity is the goal.

 

[sar]

I don't know if you get the answer or not , I have some advices for you :
- As the others said disconnect the red and black wires.
- Don't immerge the anode wire in the electrolyte.
- I think you have no free nitric acid in the electrolyte solution add about 30 mL acid to each liter of electrolyte.
If your rectifier is not broken your problem will be solved, I hope.

 

[command2001]

That "little" cell produced "MANY" kilos of silver over the years that I was refining for a living

That VAST majority of my scrap silver I sent/sold directly to a larger refiner instead of refining it myself & that is for the same reason as I explained here in this thread (concerning scrap gold) --------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/karat-vs-pure-gold.34241/#post-368938

One of the things I leaned very early once I got to the point of PM recovery/refining for a living was that it did not "pay" to "refine" high grade scrap like karat gold &/or sterling silver - as explained in the above thread

The only reason I ran that small cell to refine "some" of my silver was because I had a "few" clients that would buy my "refined" silver (&/or gold) for a premium "over" spot - the rest - not needed to meet the needs of those few clients (5 of them) I sent/sold to the bigger boys without refining

If that makes sense

Anyway - that little cell - over the years - produced many kilos - & though not big it was big enough to meet the needs of those 5 over spot clients --- something like 6 to 10 kilos per month

Pics provided to inspire others

Kurt

Kurt: I just finished my second run on my silver cell, set up much like yours. it looked like there was some sediment in the bottom of the silver tank so I took the silver out and rinsed it in hot tap water. Was very surprised when the water turned like milk (see pictures)When I drained the water it had a yellowish slime in it> Never saw anything like this. Any ideas?

Ok - in looking at the pic of your cell set up - it "looks" like you have a "connection" problem (but pictures can be deceiving)

In other words - it "looks" like you do not have a good "solid" connection of the positive lead from the power supply to the silver in the anode basket - it looks like a "loose" connection

First of all - it looks like you are using the "poured silver shot" method for the silver in your anode basket (molten silver poured into water to make small beads of silver)

However - it looks like when you poured the silver into the water you did not do it so that it created smaller beads but rather it created "larger" blobs/chunks

So - instead of lots of small beads touching closer & tighter together - the larger blobs - though touching each other are doing so in a loose way preventing "proper" flow of the current (amps) though the silver

Also - it looks like you stuck the copper end of your positive lead wire in a pool of molten silver which then sits on top of the rest of the shot in the anode basket & that can cause a loose connection in 2 ways ------

1) if the copper wire & the silver did not actually fuzz together - then though the copper wire is stuck in the silver blob it may not be a "tight" connection of the copper with silver = loose connection preventing proper current flow

2) if the silver blob with the wire stuck in it is not heavy enough it may well be sitting on top of the rest of the shot in anode basket in a loose manner rather then sitting on top of the rest of the shot in a hard tight manner

Any one of &/or a combination of the above loose connection problems can & will prevent proper current flow

Though a lot of people use the silver shot method I am not a big fan of that method for the above reasons

I much more prefer pouring "solid" anode bars (pic provided) in that pic - the bar sitting on top of the 2 bars has a hole drilled in the top of it - that hole is then taped to thread a 10/32 brass screw into the hole --- so the lead from the power supply makes a sold connection to the brass screw - the threaded brass screw makes a solid connection with the top bar - the top bar is heavy enough that it makes a solid connection with the 2 actual anode bars

Also - other things that will limit current flow (even if you have tight connections)

Anode to cathode surface area - you have a very large cathode area (stainless steel bowl) but you have a very small anode basket so a very small anode surface area - so your small anode surface area is trying to spread a small current output across a very large cathode surface area --- in my cell you can see that my anode surface area is much larger then yours & at the same time my cathode surface area is only about two & a half times larger then my anode surface area - that means I have much more "current density" taking place in my cell

Also - it "looks" like you have several layers of cloth for your anode bag - if your anode bag is to thick/heavy it will act as an insulator preventing proper/full flow of the current (amps) through the anode bag

Finally - question - how many holes & what size holes do you have in the bottom of your anode basket - please provide a pic

I ask because if you don't have enough holes &/or the holes are not large enough you are again restricting current flow &/or current density just like to small of an anode surface area &/or to thick of an anode bag

Edit to add; - & for what it is worth - my cell (in the pics) is a 4 litter cell - the anode bars are kilo bars of silver --- so that gives you a better idea of the anode surface area to the cathode surface area

Kurt

Kurt: I just finished my second run on my silver cell, set up a lot like yours/ As I was removing the silver I thought I noticed some sediment in with the silver, so i rinsed it with hot tap water and to my surprise it turned like mike color. When I drained it off the silver it had a yellowish scum in the water. Never saw anything like it. An ideas? The silver I used was in bars poured from the silver in the last picture

 

[FrugalRefiner]

That "milk" is silver chloride. There was some dissolved silver remaining in your container. When you added the tap water (which contains chloride ions) it created the silver chloride.

Dave

 

[command2001]

That "milk" is silver chloride. There was some dissolved silver remaining in your container. When you added the tap water (which contains chloride ions) it created the silver chloride.

Dave

Dave: I have rinsed the silver with tap water five times and it still comes out like milk. Could there be that much silver chloride left? How do i extract the silver from the silver chloride?

 

[Master Nater]

Dave is saying you still have silver IN SOLUTION. when you rinse it with chlorinated tap water, you are making silver chloride. if you would like to stop making silver chloride, do not rinse with tap water. rinse with distilled (non-chlorinated) water. you will still have silver in solution may want to precipitate the silver out of said solution. if you do not want to make more silver chloride, precipitate with copper. if you don't care then, add some NaCl, and just get all of the silver out of solution (in the form of silver chloride). it depends upon which route you would like to go, and what your goal with your rinse water is.

 

[command2001]

Thank you for the information, will work on your suggestions.
I took about 1/2 ounce of the silver from the cell and put it in 50/50 Nitric and DH2O. Wanted to see if there was any copper still mixed in. Much to my surprise the solution turned pink. See picture. Never saw that before. Any ideas?

 

[BGDOCK]

I have never heard of having to do that - I have used 3 different power supplies for running silver cells & never did I need to use the ground for running the cell - just the positive & the negative ????

Kurt

Kurt I missed this , for some reason the newer power supplies ( Amazon ) have this feature . Two vintage power supplies I bought from ebay are more traditional with a red and black terminal . I’m not sure if it’s some sort of feedback feature for calculation of constant current or constant voltage.
Jeff

Thank you for the information, will work on your suggestions.
I took about 1/2 ounce of the silver from the cell and put it in 50/50 Nitric and DH2O. Wanted to see if there was any copper still mixed in. Much to my surprise the solution turned pink. See picture. Never saw that before. Any ideas?

your water source ?

I have never heard of having to do that - I have used 3 different power supplies for running silver cells & never did I need to use the ground for running the cell - just the positive & the negative ????

Kurt

I just saw this post my apologies ,
My first Power supply had The same setup

 

[Charlie Hotel]

Ok. So, I'm still having issues growing my silver cell (and that is after reading all of the articles that other members have recommended). I have since changed to a stainless steel bowl which is 9 inches x 5.5 inches. I'm still using the same type of anode basket that Streetips uses but have changed the filter for the basket to a much finer cloth. I place 600ml of silver nitrate into the bowl followed by approximately 3.5 litres of distilled water stopping about 1/2 inch from the top. In the anode basket I have drilled several holes so as to allow for good saturation. I'm using a combination of pure silver and copper shot 90/10 to fill the basket where I then let it sit in the silver nitrate solution for about 10 minutes before applying electrical charge. Here is the problem. I have a dc power box 30 volt 10 amp and am using 10awg solid core copper wire. I preset the current supply to Max 2.00 and the voltage to 3.6. I then test a bulb to make sure I have current however as soon as I connect the negative wire to the bowl and the positive to a solid piece of silver which is melted onto the 10awg which is the placed into the anode basket, the voltage stays at 3.6 but the current gives a reading of 0.02 (max). What I end up with in the bowl, is a dark grey, black mush with some silver specks. Obviously there is current going into cathode but not at correct current or voltage. It seems to be that the problem lies somewhere from the connection to power source. Any suggestions or helpful tips are most appreciated.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Ok. So, I'm still having issues growing my silver cell (and that is after reading all of the articles that other members have recommended). I have since changed to a stainless steel bowl which is 9 inches x 5.5 inches. I'm still using the same type of anode basket that Streetips uses but have changed the filter for the basket to a much finer cloth. I place 600ml of silver nitrate into the bowl followed by approximately 3.5 litres of distilled water stopping about 1/2 inch from the top. In the anode basket I have drilled several holes so as to allow for good saturation. I'm using a combination of pure silver and copper shot 90/10 to fill the basket where I then let it sit in the silver nitrate solution for about 10 minutes before applying electrical charge. Here is the problem. I have a dc power box 30 volt 10 amp and am using 10awg solid core copper wire. I preset the current supply to Max 2.00 and the voltage to 3.6. I then test a bulb to make sure I have current however as soon as I connect the negative wire to the bowl and the positive to a solid piece of silver which is melted onto the 10awg which is the placed into the anode basket, the voltage stays at 3.6 but the current gives a reading of 0.02 (max). What I end up with in the bowl, is a dark grey, black mush with some silver specks. Obviously there is current going into cathode but not at correct current or voltage. It seems to be that the problem lies somewhere from the connection to power source. Any suggestions or helpful tips are most appreciated.

My guess is that the cloth is too fine and do not let the ions migrate through.
I'm puzzled by your description of your shots.
Are you mixing Copper shots and Silver shots?
For running cells it is better to use bars than shots due to the better conductivity.
Or if you run shots, then you should have a bar with some weight on top, to keep the conductivity as good as possible.

 

[BGDOCK]

How are you connecting the negative lead? Your watts seem low . Can you send pics ?

 

[Cheque_raise]

I am an extremely new member, trying to learn enough from this site to build my own cell.. so this is a question more than an answer. Post says you added 600ml silver nitrate to 3.5 liters of water for the electrolyte. Is it supposed to be that diluted?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Ok. So, I'm still having issues growing my silver cell (and that is after reading all of the articles that other members have recommended). I have since changed to a stainless steel bowl which is 9 inches x 5.5 inches. I'm still using the same type of anode basket that Streetips uses but have changed the filter for the basket to a much finer cloth. I place 600ml of silver nitrate into the bowl followed by approximately 3.5 litres of distilled water stopping about 1/2 inch from the top. In the anode basket I have drilled several holes so as to allow for good saturation. I'm using a combination of pure silver and copper shot 90/10 to fill the basket where I then let it sit in the silver nitrate solution for about 10 minutes before applying electrical charge. Here is the problem. I have a dc power box 30 volt 10 amp and am using 10awg solid core copper wire. I preset the current supply to Max 2.00 and the voltage to 3.6. I then test a bulb to make sure I have current however as soon as I connect the negative wire to the bowl and the positive to a solid piece of silver which is melted onto the 10awg which is the placed into the anode basket, the voltage stays at 3.6 but the current gives a reading of 0.02 (max). What I end up with in the bowl, is a dark grey, black mush with some silver specks. Obviously there is current going into cathode but not at correct current or voltage. It seems to be that the problem lies somewhere from the connection to power source. Any suggestions or helpful tips are most appreciated.

In hindsight, as Cheque_raise says, I believe it is definitely a conductivity issue, and a very dilute electrolyte will lead to that,
alongside to tight cloth and such.
I'm pretty sure you need more Silver in your electrolyte.
And try to measure the resistance when disconnected, then the Voltage and Amps when not connected to the cell.

 

[BGDOCK]

For the record I haven’t had coffee but 3.5L/600g =171g/L right ?
I'm not sure about the weave yet but Dacron has a tight weave and ions are pretty small , should slip through most fabrics ( still a fan of muslin cloth )
Pictures would help everyone with this game of silver cell clue

 

[Yggdrasil]

For the record I haven’t had coffee but 3.5L/600g =171g/L right ?
I'm not sure about the weave yet but Dacron has a tight weave and ions are pretty small , should slip through most fabrics ( still a fan of muslin cloth )
Pictures would help everyone with this game of silver cell clue

Not Silver but Silver Nitrate.

 

[BGDOCK]

Good catch , just finished coffee ( w/ splash of milk) sounds like a conductive issue , this weekend I had a similar issue with low wattage it was a bad connection in the basket from the anode bar .