New to GRF (gold refining forum)/ my introduction.

[samuelbaldwin010]

Hello , my name is Samuel.
I am 32 yrs old, and I currently reside in Portland, OR.
I am new here. I was informed by another member that it would be a good idea to do an introduction.
So, I am basically just starting out.
Chemistry is very new to me, but I find it very interesting,
I want to learn as much as I can about it and I really wish I would have been able to take chemistry classes back in high school,
but they weren't available at my particular school in Portland, OR.
That would have made things much easier for me now.
I really enjoy learning and I am also a pretty quick learner.
I have been trying my luck at gold recovery from e-waste,
with not so great or encouraging results because I am obviously doing something incorrectly.
For example, when I filter my AP solution with the gold foils,
I end up with alot of what appears to be alot of copper that didn't dissolve into solution among so other crap thats on the bottom.
Nonetheless when I try to melt it all into a button,
all I end up with is a brittle piece of copper like crap that is encased in a bunch of borax slag.
I am going to take a wild stab at this and assume it's in part due to the fact that I am not just doing the fingers off ram boards or cpu's,
I am doing the boards that also have soft solder on it with everything else as long as it has gold underneath, it goes in.
But, I do depopulate the board and try to remove as much of the solder as possible
before I put it into my AP solution however I do believe this is partly atleast where my problem lies.
I am always open for suggestions so that I can learn.
I am a kinda hands-on type of guy when it comes to learning, I learn alot from my mistakes.
That being said, I should mention that I have also begun reading Hoke a while ago.
Haven't finished it yet but I am getting through it slowly.
I have also been saving up a lot of catalytic converter broken up monolithic ceramic substrate
as well as some catalytic converter foils (on metal substrate),
I am interested in learning how to process that material as well and hopefully get a few grams of each PGM if all goes well.
So that is me, I apologize for the novel I just wrote so anyone who's got the patience to read this,
congratulations, you may just be a Saint!

Edited by moderator for readability.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello , my name is Samuel. I am 32 yrs old, and I currently reside in Portland, OR. I am new here. I was informed by another member that it would be a good idea to do an introduction. So, I am basically just starting out. Chemistry is very new to me, but I find it very interesting, I want to learn as much as I can about it and I really wish I would have been able to take chemistry classes back in high school, but they weren't available at my particular school in Portland, OR. That would have made things much easier for me now. I really enjoy learning and I am also a pretty quick learner. I have been trying my luck at gold recovery from e-waste, with not so great or encouraging results because I am obviously doing something incorrectly. For example, when I filter my AP solution with the gold foils, I end up with alot of what appears to be alot of copper that didn't dissolve into solution among so other crap thats on the bottom. Nonetheless when I try to melt it all into a button, all I end up with is a brittle piece of copper like crap that is encased in a bunch of borax slag. I am going to take a wild stab at this and assume it's in part due to the fact that I am not just doing the fingers off ram boards or cpu's, I am doing the boards that also have soft solder on it with everything else as long as it has gold underneath, it goes in. But, I do depopulate the board and try to remove as much of the solder as possible before I put it into my AP solution however I do believe this is partly atleast where my problem lies. I am always open for suggestions so that I can learn. I am a kinda hands-on type of guy when it comes to learning, I learn alot from my mistakes. That being said, I should mention that I have also begun reading Hoke a while ago. Haven't finished it yet but I am getting through it slowly. I have also been saving up a lot of catalytic converter broken up monolithic ceramic substrate as well as some catalytic converter foils (on metal substrate), I am interested in learning how to process that material as well and hopefully get a few grams of each PGM if all goes well. So that is me, I apologize for the novel I just wrote so anyone who's got the patience to read this, congratulations, you may just be a Saint!

Welcome.
Continue reading Hokes book and the Library.
Regarding foils and AP.
The AP is a bad name for the Cupric Chloride etch, so if you can elaborate how you do it, we can give some advice.
The residues will usually be some remains from Tin and saturated Copper I Chloride from the Process.
After filtering add some more HCl to dissolve the rest of the Tin and Copper II Chloride again.
Look at this link it explains it easy:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/ap-process.32352/post-343126.Regarding the foils, most will cut the boards and only leach the "fingers" the rest of the plate is more in the range of white noise.
It is everywhere but has little substance, so it is usually not worth the hassle and chemicals.
Regarding the Converters, one can certainly leach some of the values out of them, bot usually even close to all.
In addition the PGM salts are very strong and unforgiving toxins with respect to sensitizing the body.
We have members that have died due to long time exposure.
And it is a whole other class of process than Gold, many times harder.

Keep on studying and you will find this place addictive

 

[butcher]

If you follow your interest you will learn chemistry, the key is to study, many of your troubles may not have as much to do with chemistry as it does simple things like mechanical separation of the material even before your materials see any chemical processes.

Welcome to the forum, gain an understanding of your study and readings, use that understanding in small experiments to get acquainted with how the metals react and why, begin a study with more pure metals or easier-to-deal-with processes, work up to the harder materials and processes...

It sounds like you are trying to run before you learned to walk, you will not win any races at that pace, to win the race we need to learn to crawl (learn the language and principles) then we learn to walk (gain an understanding what happens in the chemistry of these metals and reagents and why) then we can practice running (getting into problems and having enough knowledge and experience to overcome problems or figure them out as they appear in our processes) then we can improve on our skills...

Slow down (check yourself often for the symptoms of gold fever), study, and follow your interest it will be your guide to a good education.
That is as long as you can keep a check on the gold fever which will try and get gold fast and without any understanding making dangerous messes losing gold with no study or educating yourself, jumping in head first with no direction or understanding of the direction to go except to wander in darkness for the search of gold...

 

[lazersteve]

Thread 'Acid Peroxide Process Information Thread Q & A's' Acid Peroxide Process Information Thread Q & A's

Post above is a good starting point for basic acid peroxide/ copper chloride method.

Welcome to the forum,

Steve

 

[butcher]

Thanks, Lasersteve,
Many of our members would prosper reading the older threads, where many times more is discussed in more and better detail.

 

[samuelbaldwin010]

Wow.
That is actually very sound advice from all of you.
I really appreciate the wisdom you guy's can share with me.
Maybe I should slow down a bit, even though it's difficult to do.
Maybe I do have a bit of gold fever.
I want to do things correctly but as I mentioned in my introduction sometimes I need that failure to learn from.
Experience is usually invaluable.
I can read all that I want but if I can't apply the knowledge, that makes it near useless to me I would say..
I will read up on some of the older threads and what not.
One other question though, I had a lot of gold plated pins from various sources (computer cpu boards, card holders, cables, etc.) Basically anything that had a gold plated coating on it, I put into my little cache.
After researching it for a while I made the determination that my best ( or maybe it was just the quickest?)
course if action would be to take everything and put it in nitric acid, but given how expensive that stuff is already made,
I decided to try going with the poor man's nitric route,
so I took everything and I put it all in an old glass coffee pot and put in some distilled h2o and my nitrates,
which was sodium nitrate from duda energy I bought off of Amazon,
I then heated it up to get the nitrates to start dissolving,
I then proceeded to add the conc. Sulfuric acid to it and let it boil away
until it stopped producing the brown fumes and appeared to stop reacting with the metals
when I checked to see if it had dissolved everything,
it hadn't so I put the heat back on to see if I was just being too inpatient.
I waited and stirred it every now and then,
but no further reaction appeared to be happening so my next conclusion was
that I either boiled off all of the acid somehow or that the solution was too saturated to dissolve anything else,
so I then proceeded to add a touch more water, some more nitrate salts and a little bit more Sulfuric acid.
It seemed to work for a bit then it stopped again, I let it cool then checked again but there was still solids at the bottom.
I put it back on heat and the solids appeared to dissolve or so I thought.
I then tried to filter it while it was still warm
but I kept having my filter papers getting clogged with these blue crystalline like particles I am assuming is copper sulfate.
So I am not sure what course of action I should take now
because there is too much solution to add anymore stuff to it without it being filled to the top,
but it seems like the copper sulfate isn't all staying in solution to be able to filter it.
Did I dilute the acid too much?
Not add enough nitrates,?
Where do I go from here? I appreciate the help. Thanks.

Edited by moderator for readability

 

[samuelbaldwin010]

Theses are photos of what I was talking about.
There are these very cool looking blue crystals that won't go (and stay) into solution,
I am under the assumption that they are copper sulfate since the solution was originally a fairly large amount of gold plated pins
(both ferrous and nonferrous varieties) that I had tried to dissolve everything with poor man's nitric acid
(sodium nitrate salts + concentrated sulfuric acid) , I also put some heat to the solution to hasten the metals into solution,
all seemed to be going well, but then I had to suddenly stop what I was doing because it started snowing and
I was doing everything outside (I haven't had the materials to make my own fume hood yet.)
So that put a damper on things for a few days.
When I came back to everything a number of days later, there appeared to be very heavy blue precipitate on the bottom
and upon closer inspection I could see alot of my gold flakes incased in the blue crystals and there didn't appear to be much, if not any,
floating around in the liquid portion of my little experiment here.
So here are my thoughts: I believe that I may have (grossly) under estimated how much poormans nitric acid
that this batch would require in order to keep the copper sulphate in solution and the gold floating around
and my solution is massively over saturated due to this error in my judgment.
I am thinking that in order to correct this problem and get everything to stay in solution,
I may need to add quite a bit more concentrated sulfuric acid, possibly a bit more sodium nitrate salts as well.
Any advice, constructive criticism, or guidance is both welcome and appreciated.
I have never been a member to an online forum before so if I am not posting this in the correct area or thread,
I apologize in advance and I appreciate your patience. I will get it eventually.
Thanks. -Samuel

Edited by moderator for readability.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Wow. That is actually very sound advice from all of you. I really appreciate the wisdom you guy's can share with me. Maybe I should slow down a bit, even though it's difficult to do. Maybe I do have a bit of gold fever. I want to do things correctly but as I mentioned in my introduction sometimes I need that failure to learn from. Experience is usually invaluable. I can read all that I want but if I can't apply the knowledge, that makes it near useless to me I would say.. I will read up on some of the older threads and what not. One other question though, I had a lot of gold plated pins from various sources (computer cpu boards, card holders, cables, etc.) Basically anything that had a gold plated coating on it, I put into my little cache. After researching it for a while I made the determination that my best ( or maybe it was just the quickest?) course if action would be to take everything and put it in nitric acid, but given how expensive that stuff is already made, I decided to try going with the poor man's nitric route, so I took everything and I put it all in an old glass coffee pot and put in some distilled h2o and my nitrates, which was sodium nitrate from duda energy I bought off of Amazon, I then heated it up to get the nitrates to start dissolving, I then proceeded to add the conc. Sulfuric acid to it and let it boil away until it stopped producing the brown fumes and appeared to stop reacting with the metals when I checked to see if it had dissolved everything, it hadn't so I put the heat back on to see if I was just being too inpatient . I waited and stirred it every now and then, but no further reaction appeared to be happening so my next conclusion was that I either boiled off all of the acid somehow or that the solution was too saturated to dissolve anything else, so I then proceeded to add a touch more water, some more nitrate salts and a little bit more Sulfuric acid. It seemed to work for a bit then it stopped again, I let it cool then checked again but there was still solids at the bottom. I put it back on heat and the solids appeared to dissolve or so I thought. I then tried to filter it while it was still warm but I kept having my filter papers getting clogged with these blue crystalline like particles I am assuming is copper sulfate. So I am not sure what course of action I should take now because there is too much solution to add anymore stuff to it without it being filled to the top, but it seems like the copper sulfate isn't all staying in solution to be able to filter it. Did I dilute the acid too much? Not add enough nitrates,? Where do I go from here? I appreciate the help. Thanks.

Can I give you a non forum advice?
Please use line dividers when you write.
This comes like solid block of never ending text.
It is actually hard to read.

 

[nickvc]

One of the main reasons you have crystals forming is because you have a too saturated solution , if you add water and heat gently to avoid cracking your pot you should be able to pour off your solution to allow more acid to be added to carry on dissolving the base metals , be aware that by mixing your magnetic and non magnetic pins you could have problems later.
Please ensure that any solutions are disposed of safely and are kept away from kids pets and wildlife.

 

[samuelbaldwin010]

Can I give you a non forum advice?
Please use line dividers when you write.
This comes like solid block of never ending text.
It is actually hard to read.

I see what you mean...
I will do my best to write everything in the (this) format you mentioned. Because it really does make it harder to
Read.
If I am going to write novels, then I may as well make it easy as I can for people to read.
Thanks for your input.

-Samuel

 

[samuelbaldwin010]

One of the main reasons you have crystals forming is because you have a too saturated solution , if you add water and heat gently to avoid cracking your pot you should be able to pour off your solution to allow more acid to be added to carry on dissolving the base metals , be aware that by mixing your magnetic and non magnetic pins you could have problems later.
Please ensure that any solutions are disposed of safely and are kept away from kids pets and wildlife.

Thank you for taking the time to read my novel. I will be signing copies when it reaches #1! Whoop, whoop!
Seriously though, I certainly agree with you.
I am going to try as you have suggested. Couple of things I was wondering though: are those crystals of copper sulfate? Or copper nitrate? Or
Are they a mixture of both copper sulfate and nitrate?
And if they are either just copper nitrate
Or even a mixture of the two, can I use the salts left over from the waste to make nitric out of?
As for the ferrous and nonferrous pins I mixed together.. guess we will just have to cross that bridge when we get there.

Thanks for the input guys.

-Samuel

 

[samuelbaldwin010]

I forgot to mention.
To address the concerns about how I am dealing with the waste I have been making, I have just been trying to store
My spent acids and solutions (stock-pots)
In jugs and or other receptacles that seem appropriate.
For later disposal so I can do it the least environmentally impactful way possible.
I am not certain if I have needed to keep
Everything separate such as the AP solution wastes separate from the poormans nitric solution wastes
And etc.
Atleast until I know of the most proper way to process and/or dispose of the most responsibly I can.
I hope that puts restless minds at ease.

-Samuel

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thank you for taking the time to read my novel. I will be signing copies when it reaches #1! Whoop, whoop!
Seriously though, I certainly agree with you.
I am going to try as you have suggested. Couple of things I was wondering though: are those crystals of copper sulfate? Or copper nitrate? Or
Are they a mixture of both copper sulfate and nitrate?
And if they are either just copper nitrate
Or even a mixture of the two, can I use the salts left over from the waste to make nitric out of?
As for the ferrous and nonferrous pins I mixed together.. guess we will just have to cross that bridge when we get there.

Thanks for the input guys.

-Samuel

I edited your first posts.


Edit to add:

1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=197982. Then read the safety section of the forum
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum

After you have done this you need to learn how to search the forum, that is where the treasure are buried

As for your issues there are whole threads for poor mans Nitric.
LazeerSteve has a very good recipe for that.
Additionally your Copper Sulfate are just over saturated and water is needed to dissolve it.

 

[samuelbaldwin010]

Thanks for your reply. I will figure it all out.. eventually.. thanks again.

-Samuel