New To Refining

[waltsplaza]

Hello, I am new to this aspect of recycling PCB boards and the components. I purchased a storage unit that was loaded with these boards and most of them have the gold/copper content very heavily inlaid to the boards. I have read so much about this form of refining and there seems to be a large amount of pros and cons surrounding extracting gold at home. I have read about the aqua regia system working pretty well for a home based method and being relatively safe enough for the enviroment and you can nutralize the chemicals when done. I would really like more information from someone with enough time in to tell me the real story. I worked on some of these boards to remove the components to kind of see how long a process this involves as I have hundreds of them to process. Removing the components doesn't seem that hard to do and it's just a matter of method. Now that I have gotten to the point of trying to remove the resin that coats the board, I hit a little bit of a block as there are so many variations on how to do this, so I would like to know what is the best way to clean them so they work better for the Aqua Regia system. I am trying to take my time with this and get my ducks in a row before I place these boards in any solution for gold refining. I do not wish to use a refiner as you lose far too much money and I don't mind the labor of doing the process myself. Is there someone who can give me a layout of what's really needed to do this properly. I have always dealt with scrap metal in my business and we recycle all we can and I would like to really get in to this since I have the resources available. I really need a little information and appreciate some advice.

 

[waltsplaza]

I did forget to mention what you might do to refine components on the circuit board?

 

[Barren Realms 007]

The information is here on the forum if you start doing some searches and find it like the rest of them members have done.

 

[waltsplaza]

Done plenty of that and still looking, so that's why I am seeking someone in the know for some advice.

 

[Barren Realms 007]

To get the coating off do a search on soaking them in hot sodium hydroxide.

 

[goldenchild]

To get the coating off do a search on soaking them in hot sodium hydroxide.

I think waltsplaza is looking for more of an A-Z of how to process/refine these boards. But ironically the only people that will be able to tell him this is our local refiners. Unless there ARE people in this forum that deal with this volume on a regular basis :shock: Without being equipped to process these mass quantities like the refineries are, this will come down to how much time he wants to spend. In that case all the info is on this forum. He may also want to go the ebay route.

 

[wrecker45]

i take the stuff that is easy to take off like cpu and ram memory sticks and sell the boards to my scrap buyer

 

[lazersteve]

Start with the Guided Tour Link below, a copy of Hoke, and a trip to my website.

Once you've made the rounds, post again on where you need help.

Steve

 

[dtectr]

are walt & aqlar related?
sorry.

 

[ssstew2000]

Order lazer steve cd on refining pcb fingers i did and it works fine. some of it is a little hard to understand if your a newbie. but contact me and ill explain. its the one that is used with hcl and perixiod good luck. it worth the investment if you have of fingers

stephen :shock:

 

[waltsplaza]

I made an attempt to process some compouter boards themselves after they had been cleaned of all the components. I was able to pellitize the boards before putting them into the aqua regia solution, but unfortunately got a little overboard with the muriatic acid (also added the nitric). The boards seemed to boil out and release the metals and what I wound up with in the end is a solution that is dark and highly acidic from 16 pounds of layered circuit boards (looks like dark maple syrup). I ran the solution first through a paint filter and a second time through a coffee filter. All the filters came away with bright yellow color after they were used and the solution is free of debris. I added urea to the solution to balance the ph level, but I made the solution so acidic that the urea it would take to tone it down would be alot . Would anyone have any suggestions about the acid issue.
Thanks, Walt

 

[lazersteve]

Walt,

The maple syrup color sounds like copper saturation. If that's the case then the gold is in the filter with the solids.

Test the 'maple syrup' with a drop of water, a white cloud where the drop goes in is a sign of copper saturation (copper I chloride is the white cloud). You should also test the solution with stannous chloride to be sure that no gold is present.

If the solution is saturated process the solids from the filters with more fresh AR and test the resulting solution with stannous chloride. Skip the urea and go easy on the nitric instead, you'll have fewer headaches this way. Add the nitric is small doses with heating. When a new addition of nitric does not produce any more fizzing and red vapors, you're done.

Keep us posted on your progress.

Steve

 

[waltsplaza]

Thank you for the information Steve, it is greatly appreciated. I am serious about building up my refining skills and realize that you have to trip sometimes when learning anything. I had purchased two of the Shor Sub-Zero kits and did not stay within the bounds of the directions. I dumped far too much into the solution and just added more muratic. I have kept all the solids in one container and as with the filters, there small filtering bags that also cotained the same yellow color too. I have wound up with approximately 5 gallons of the maple colored solution after filtering. I then made an attempt to test the solution for any precious metal content with no results. So if I am understanding this correctly, what I have in the bucket after filtering is a solution with mainly copper content. So I have to assume that the main brunt of most full circuit boards (without components) are high in copper content, but contain gold as well. Will the Sub-Zero work with the boards if I stay within the guidelines? I will follow the advice that you gave me on checking the material that is broken down in the bucket. I suppose that because of all the processing involved that most folks would strip the components and fingers and sell the remaining portion to a scrap dealer. I no there is a alot of work involved in doing the process, but work is all I have done in the past and I am no stranger to it and especially in times when recycling makes alot of sense. I have partnered with a friend and I have been familiar with recycling for many years as a side issue to earn additional money and we plan to recycle in a responsible manner by sending all our broken down materials to different refiners (plastics, metals,etc.). We have begun buying different equipment and hope to be up and running on the breakdown of materials, but really want to add the precious metal refining aspect into the mix. Finding material at the moment is not an issue as I have a number of sources, but need to take more time on learning the precious metal refining aspect. I have visited your site and it is very informative and plan to research more there and understand that you have a line of products for the refining process which I also will look in to. I have high expectations of learning alot more about this subject and hope it will become a part of our plans. I have been raising my three children alone for a number of years and they know the struggles it takes for dad to keep things moving and my teenage son has now begun to take more of an interest in the recycling and participates hands on in the breakdown of materials. I know that the notion of processing is involved and can be frustrating, but I am up for the task and have no intention of giving up because of a few set-backs. Thanks again. Walt

 

[butcher]

Walt, may I suggest starting slow, using one type of Item, like memmory fingers, and acid peroxide process, then moving to HCl/bleach, then melting to gold. these are fairly easy processes and are very useful for many things, very easy to learn and to get aquainted with refining, Steve has done a very good job of putting the information together for anyone who is willing to learn and not afraid of a little work.

do not work on High grade material or with Aqua regia to start, they are harder to deal with and losses can be greater, save your best material untill you are familiar with reactions and the processes.

takeing small steps is less confusing and tripping is not so bad, as when you try to learn to run before learning to walk.

reading Hokes, work on getting familiar with reactions of metals and acids, and testing for metals.

then one step at a time and everything gets easier to learn as you start understanding the basics.

 

[waltsplaza]

I have seen much about the fingers aspect of the refining, but still would like to know what the options are for recovery of the entire contents of the circuit board less the components. Is it even practical to make the attempt with the needed education on the subject and chemicals to do the process? I don't expect someone to just lay it out for me and I don't mind the research to earn the ability to refine, but would appreciate it if I could hear that it is worth the time and investment to at least give a real attempt. Thanks,Walt

Order lazer steve cd on refining pcb fingers i did and it works fine. some of it is a little hard to understand if your a newbie. but contact me and ill explain. its the one that is used with hcl and perixiod good luck. it worth the investment if you have of fingers

stephen :shock:

 

[lazersteve]

Refining whole circuit boards is beyond the scope of most hobbyist refiners. Typically the boards are scavenged for the highest grade parts and sold by the pound to a larger dealer.

To really make money processing entire boards requires specialized equipment, EPA permits, lots of overhead capital, and an endless supply of scrap.

Steve

 

[dtectr]

Refining whole circuit boards is beyond the scope of most hobbyist refiners. Typically the boards are scavenged for the highest grade parts and sold by the pound to a larger dealer.

To really make money processing entire boards requires specialized equipment, EPA permits, lots of overhead capital, and an endless supply of scrap.

Steve

I know you already understand this, but just FYI for others...
In 3 successful(?) biz ventures in my adult life (we don't talk about the other kind! :twisted: ), as well as d***ed bad luck of my family, i learned the hard way, that just because you can UNDERSTAND how to do it, doesn't mean you can profitably do it. Lazersteve isn't withholding some trade secret, just trying to save you from the pains that come with learning this 1sthand.

Hang in there ... you can't make up losses with quantity, regardless of what the salesman says! :lol: :lol:

 

[waltsplaza]

Thank you Steve for the information, but my intent is to move beyond it just being a hobby. I know you are a man with a whole lot of time vested and I am sure you are more aware of the pitfalls involved with type of investment. I thank you and respect your advice and I may have to change my thinking about how to handle the massive collection of boards that I have, but I have put too much into my efforts to not at least try, even on a smaller scale. As you noted though, if all else fails, I can always send them to a scrap dealer or refinery and cut my losses. I honestly do appreciate the straight talk regarding recovery on the level I was thinking to acheive, but hopefully I will a least manage to work with some of it for recovery. Thanks, Walt

Refining whole circuit boards is beyond the scope of most hobbyist refiners. Typically the boards are scavenged for the highest grade parts and sold by the pound to a larger dealer.

To really make money processing entire boards requires specialized equipment, EPA permits, lots of overhead capital, and an endless supply of scrap.

Steve

 

[patnor1011]

Depopulated boards are recycled mainly for their copper content. Gold or Silver are just small bonus on top of copper money. Whole boards simply cant be recycled profitably using acids.