Newbie- Have a LOT of porcelain plates with 24kt gold-Guidance Please

[Christy]

Howdy all- I am a newbie to the world of gold refining and I've got over 300 plates with thick 24kt gold embedded into them and on the edges. I've had them for ages just collecting dust.
I've watched a few videos on "how to" and everyone has a completely different solution set, and no one provides measurements- it seems they're just eye balling it ( I can't like live this!).
I'd like to know if anyone has access to or knows of a tutorial specifically for gold removal from porcelain plates. I've started with reading CM Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes, as one of our awesome members posted.

I may be a little woman but I am mighty and more than willing to get my hands dirty, or occasionally accidentally make some mustard gas.

Appreciative to anyone who can help out!


-Christy

 

[Yggdrasil]

Howdy all- I am a newbie to the world of gold refining and I've got over 300 plates with thick 24kt gold embedded into them and on the edges. I've had them for ages just collecting dust.
I've watched a few videos on "how to" and everyone has a completely different solution set, and no one provides measurements- it seems they're just eye balling it ( I can't like live this!).
I'd like to know if anyone has access to or knows of a tutorial specifically for gold removal from porcelain plates. I've started with reading CM Hoke's Refining Precious Metal Wastes, as one of our awesome members posted.

I may be a little woman but I am mighty and more than willing to get my hands dirty, or occasionally accidentally make some mustard gas.

Appreciative to anyone who can help out!


-Christy

We take the dangers of chemistry very serious here so please refrain from joking with toxic compounds like this.
For the plating I'm guessing Cyanide it the only solution to get close to break even.
And still I'm not sure it will be worth it.

Anyway here are some reading for you:

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: Safety
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste

Suggested reading: The Library

 

[goldshark]

After doing the prerequisite reading, find out if the Au is coated with anything to protect it. Scratch test will do. Does a good knife gouge into to Au, or skim over the top? If there is a protective coating, you will have to either remove the coating, or break the dishes into small enough pieces, so whatever method you use, provides enough surface area to readily expose the Au. Most dishes have a clear glaze installed for durability. This is on a plate designed for everyday, or special occasion dinner wear. If a strictly decorative, non use dish, it may not have a coating. In any case, your recovery will be minimal at best, as the Au is usually only microns thick. If you need a project to remove stress from your life, or need to remove a painful memory from your life involving these dishes, then by all means proceed. You will find in the end that it did not justify the expense to recover the metal. But the knowledge will be invaluable.

 

[Alondro]

Are the plates antique or modern? That will make a HUGE difference in the amount of gold on them. New ones have plating so thin it's virtually pointless, as processing plates is outlandishly tedious and requires large volumes, UNLESS you have a special cutting tool which can cut off just the parts with the plating. And, if the plates are quite old and you have full sets, you'll make more money selling the plates.

 

[DaddyD]

A friend of mine and I have been doing this for quite some time the best and safe way with great results is to chrush them into a power and pan them as you would gold

 

[Martijn]

A friend of mine and I have been doing this for quite some time the best and safe way with great results is to chrush them into a power and pan them as you would gold

Do you have yield numbers and how much time did you spend on crushing, sifting and panning? Were this older or newer plates?

 

[Chase54]

I dis agree I found this to be an utter waste of time. I had a couple hundred pounds of old gas station gold pictured cups. I used chlorine to liberate the gold it came off quickly and cleanly. After I evaporated down the wash and precipitated the gold I made out with less than a gram. Perhaps antique would offer better yeilds?

 

[Martijn]

I dis agree I found this to be an utter waste of time. I had a couple hundred pounds of old gas station gold pictured cups. I used chlorine to liberate the gold it came off quickly and cleanly. After I evaporated down the wash and precipitated the gold I made out with less than a gram. Perhaps antique would offer better yeilds?

Wow. From that entire load less than a gram.
I tried it on 20 or so plates to get an idea with chlorine as well and cemented out a nearly invisible dust layer so I abandoned that as a worthwhile option.

 

[kaisernine]

There is very very little there, I wouldn't process it personally - you will get way more value selling as plates.

I processed 100lbs of this type of material for someone 10ish years ago and I think after he bought the chemicals and paid for waste disposal he broke even.

 

[DaddyD]

I have said many times all you need is to crush it and pan it

 

[goldshark]

Spending the time to crush, unless you already have a jaw crusher, set of rolls , and fine grinding equipment, one would be hard pressed to make a profit. Crush, grind, pan is so expensive, it is why the cheaper Cyanide was invented in the first place. If you cannot make a profit using cheap Cyanide, you will make even less by your method. Cyanide will get 100%, panning will only get so much, but not 100%.

 

[Nickperl]

I've been recovering gold from dishware and china for ten years. It is relatively inexpensive for Hydrochloric Acid (muriatic acid) and Hydrogen Peroxide, drop teh gold first with SMB and I re-refine using Butly Diglyme and Oxylic Acid.
It does take alot of time (I'm retired). My yield over the years has been varying but I use a gain of about a nickel (US) per square inch. I load and soak them all in larger buckets (anything that can be covered). I usually start with 2:1 Muriatic: Peroxide. It's the gas that dislodges the gold from the flux and although chemically it's not dissolved, it is absorbed into the AP mix . I can do several loads in the same bucket, refreshing with a cup of Muriatic and half cup of peroxide, (always a 2:1 ratio) and just cover and wait. Works better the warmer the weather. I rinse into a separate bucket to keep the soaker bucket from being diluted. When I drop the gold with SMB dissolved in hot water (be careful ,poor slowly into the AP) (varying yellow AP - the darker the yellow, the richer the gold) and after at least a day, I decant then filter through large Watson #2. After rinsing the powder, I re-refine with AR, transfer to Butyl Diglyme (requires separatory funnel) and drop with Oxylic Acid.
I think it's profitable because I have so much from that process. Also, I donate the processed and washed dishware to Goodwill for a tax deduction. In fact, I have seen dishes I processed back on the shelves at Goodwill - and at the same price as before! (I get a kick out of that). I agree with some on here who said the older the plates, the better. Northeast US (Ohio, Penn.) old line china manufactures, and Dresden (Germany), Italian red glass. I've bought from thrift stores in the past but they are way too expensive now. Best bet are garage and yard sales.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I have said many times all you need is to crush it and pan it

I doubt if the thin layer of Gold is pan-able or even sluice-able.

 

[DaddyD]

I doubt if the thin layer of Gold is pan-able or even sluice-able.

Yes it is my friend has been doing it for about a year now and he is getting very good return

 

[goldshark]

How fine do you crush to get a worthwhile return?

 

[1mysurveymail]

Just had to stop "lurking" and try to simplify this for you...
I personally would just use HCL and bleach (as needed to keep the chlorine dissolving the gold). I tried this with a few pieces of gold plated glass and ceramic items... It worked very well. It was quick too (probably too much bleach). This is SO MUCH MORE SIMPLE. It is the same technique used to dissolve RAM "fingers." The yields will be low, based on everything I have heard. Maybe something like 1 gram of gold for every 10 square inches (of gold plating)?
After the stripping is done, DO NOT IMMEDIATELY TRY TO DROP WITH SMB. The "chlorine" must be driven off, with slow and low heat (or very prolonged sunshine), and a "watch glass" (a cover that lets the vapor condense and drip back into the solution) DO NOT BOIL. The HCL and bleach solution, won't be very "pregnant," in terms of a dark color (yellow), however.
Just my two cents. No flames please.