Newbie with a dilema! Wrong Sodium Nitrate?

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H

hemicuda

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2007
Messages
57
Location
British Columbia Canada
Hello everyone! I am new to the forum and I am wondering if anybody has encountered the same trouble I have. I am using AR to dissolve Gold from 486 pro's strictly. Only problem is I think I have the wrong Sodium Nitrate.The Sodium Nitrate I have purchased is a food grade that is listed as "full strength for curing meat".
I have read in other locations that i am to use a so called 'lab' grade Sodium Nitrate.....I am assuming I made a huge WHOOPS. Although I did get a reaction albeit small. I have gone no further in the testing of my possible Gold bearing AR.
I did notice that some of the Gold had been stripped from the pins on the pro's but not completely.
Any help would be a greatly appreciated! :D
Get Good First,Get Fast Next.....Me :D
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Well I don't think it would affect it's potency. Food grade is 99.5%+ (I think) Are you sure you have Sodium Nitrate and you use the good ratios ?
 
Are you sure that you have sodium nitrATE (NaNO3) and not sodium nitrITE (NaN02)? Wikipedia claims they both are used as food preservatives, but I think that nitrite is much more common. I believe only the nitrate salt is useful for making AR...

-junkelly
 
Hey Noxx!
thanx for your attention to this post....yes i have used 2 different mix ratios in regards to this problem. the first ratio was obtained via a purchase off of Ebay. I found that the Sodium Nitrate took quite a while to dissolve in hot water that had been boiled on an element. Upon close inspection I had noticed that the Nitrate had not fully dissolved in the water.so i poured off what did dissolve into my batch of pro's and then added the Muriatic to the mix.This stage of the process seemed to work well as the reaction went along as stated in the E-bay purchase. So I let the mix sit in the bucket outside over night in the snow! Checking the mix the next day revealed the problem I speak of.I had also noticed a strong odour of salt coming from the bucket as well.

After the percentage of the Sodium Nitrate that did dissolve in the hot water was poured off,( roughly about 1/2 of the Sodium Nitrate), I set the undissolved Sodium Nitrate aside and boiled more water to mix with the undissolved S.N.which was added a few hours later.

The S.N. that I am using has a consistency of table salt...NOT even close to the pellet or prill form I have seen used in some of the pictures posted.

So maybe just maybe is there a possibility that there is way too much Sodium?

And yes I am using the proper protective equipment in these procedures!.
lol

The second mixture came from a posting in the forum.which I wrote down after double checking the mix ratio.and doing the same upon doing the mix.
Thanx again for your help!
 
Hey Junkelly!
Yes I have checked and checked and rechecked...lol. The product that I have purchased came in a bag (brown paper exterior lined with plastic inside) and was properly labeled as.......Sodium NitrATE, food grade, for curing meat.

I have noticed one thing that does strike me as odd though.....I noticed a full bag of Sodium Nitrate in a picture posted in one of the forums and it has the yellow hasmat label on the bag that says" 5.1 oxidizer"and is in a full blown,plastic,not paper bag.Upon rechecking my product I find no such a label.....so I am absolutely baffled.. :?: :shock:

The only thing I can say is....HELP!!!!!....lol
 
Sodium nitrate is very soluble. Sodium nitrite is less soluble.

I am willing to bet you have sodium nitrite, which will not work, as there is the wrong charge on the nitrogen.

Sodium nitrite is much more common in curing meat than sodium nitrate.

An easy test is adding your powder to silver nitrate solution, if it is nitrate, there will be no precipitation, if it is nitrite, there will be. Or, make a dilute solution (2M) of sulfuric acid and chill it. Then add your ''sodium nitrate'' to it. If there is a green color, then you have sodium nitrite.


Lou



Lou
 
Wow.
I thank all of you for your help in regards to this matter...but can you explain why I had a positive reaction? this reaction being all of the brown 'off' gases?
and have I trashed the batches I have ran?
I did a test on both batches with the gold test solution and neither shows any traces of gold in suspension. So do I bide my time and wait for my fresh order of 98% Sodium Nitrate to arrive in mid January...or?....is there another available source? I have read in Wikipedia that Salt Peter is the same.

He he he he thank god the gold is still mostly on the pro's!

I should sign this post as GETTING ANCY IN CANADA! but patience is a virtue well sought!.....
 
hemicuda said:
Wow.
I thank all of you for your help in regards to this matter...but can you explain why I had a positive reaction? this reaction being all of the brown 'off' gases?
and have I trashed the batches I have ran?
I did a test on both batches with the gold test solution and neither shows any traces of gold in suspension. So do I bide my time and wait for my fresh order of 98% Sodium Nitrate to arrive in mid January...or?....is there another available source? I have read in Wikipedia that Salt Peter is the same.

He he he he thank god the gold is still mostly on the pro's!

I should sign this post as GETTING ANCY IN CANADA! but patience is a virtue well sought!.....
Click to expand...
 
Well, the brown evolution of gas is usually a good indication of it working but, the gases produced by NO2{-1} (nitrite anion) oxidize with air to that brown nitrogen dioxide you're seeing.

Really man, unless you're hydrochloric acid is really really dilute, you should've seen the the gold being attacked and the solution yellowing up nicely.
 
Okay I did the test as per your comment Lou, and i have this to report..in dilute chilled Sulphuric acid I added my Sodium Nitrate..the solution turned a very faint yellow. not green.( yes I have proof of this I found the bill of sale stating "Sodium Nitrate salt cure,full strength.")
Some of the gold had been stripped unless it had been coated. As the tips of the pins were blackened. but the pins had not been removed.
The contents were also completely submerged in solution.....

Alas i still remain stumped.but hopeful.
 
Hemi,

Can you confirm the concentration of your muriatic acid is in the 30% range (31.45%)?

With poor man's AR (sodium nitrate and muriatic acid) you should boil the niter and HCl until the solution turns orange before adding it to the scrap.

If you didn't get the orange color change you may not have formed enough AR to do the job.

If you had any iron alloy in the mix it may have prevented the AR from working as the iron will displace the gold as a black powder which deposits on the base metal surfaces in the scrap.

Are you sure your stannous chloride is fresh and working properly? Do a control test by dissolving a few shaved finger foils in HCl-Cl and testing with your stannous. You should get a nice purple colored reaction.

Steve
 
Oh sorry I didn't post my mix ratio...which is..

4lbs material..(pro's)
1/2 lb Sodium Nitrate in 2 full cups of boiling water.
4 full cups of Muriatic acid.
I hope this might help with my dilemma!

I still have faith and refuse to give up....lol
 
I must have missed something, why are you using sodium nitrate instead of nitric acid?

4 parts HCL to 1 part nitric does a beautiful job for making AR
 
Ageo,

Sodium nitrate and HCl is a common substitute for real AR when you don't have access to nitric acid. I call it Poor Man's AR.

Steve
 
Hello All!
Again I will try a fresh batch with boiling AR.
Thanks to all who have posted, this dilemma shall be solved soon!
I will be making up some Nitric Acid soon,as I have done some pin and finger stripping in the crock pot and I am very impressed with the results. Cheers for now and I will keep everyone posted....possibly try to post some pictures.

From Keith.
 
lazersteve said:
Ageo,

Sodium nitrate and HCl is a common substitute for real AR when you don't have access to nitric acid. I call it Poor Man's AR.

Steve
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I didnt realise how hard it is for some people to obtain nitric acid. I can get 70% pure nitric acid over here for $3.50AUD per litre.

anywayz good to know there is alternatives
 
Ageo308 said:
I didnt realise how hard it is for some people to obtain nitric acid. I can get 70% pure nitric acid over here for $3.50AUD per litre.

anywayz good to know there is alternatives
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:shock: :shock: :shock:

That's about 3.25$CAN !!
 
That's about 3.25$CAN !!
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So thats about 50 cents american? Sorry, just thinking about the good old days when the US dollar was considerable more than the Canadian. Ok with that shameful comment made, I shall crawl back to my corner.
 
Noxx said:
Ageo308 said:
I didnt realise how hard it is for some people to obtain nitric acid. I can get 70% pure nitric acid over here for $3.50AUD per litre.

anywayz good to know there is alternatives
Click to expand...

:shock: :shock: :shock:

That's about 3.25$CAN !!
Click to expand...

Its better than no nitric acid at all :lol:
 

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