Nitrate salts help

[fivel_976]

Wondering if you guys prefer potassium nitrate stump remover or hi-yeald nitrate of soda? And is it worth dessolving and recrystallizing it?

 

[Shark]

I have used, and still do at times, both. Each reacts a little different but not enough to be a big deal. I use the Sodium nitrate more just because I can get it in 4 pound bags with minimal driving time. As for choosing which I use, it is as simple as which one is closest at hand. I do lean toward potassium nitrate for jobs that seem to require more nitric. When making nitric acid, I prefer sodium nitrate only because I have less salts to deal with but potassium seems to produce more acid for me. If I were distilling nitric I think I would lean more to potassium nitrate. If I had a greater understanding of the chemistry involved I may choose completely opposite from my now choice.

As for dissolving and recrystallizing, I have never done it. At best I would dissolve the nitrate and filter it. Then use it as is. With careful control of the distillation process I think it will work just fine. Most potassium nitrates I have used are fairly clean anyway, but I feel sodium nitrate is often a mine product and that leaves room for more contaminates.

 

[fivel_976]

Drive time is not an issue as I found I can buy both from walmart.com at the best price 50 bucks for 10 pounds of spectracide stump remover and 33 bucks for 12 pounds of hi yield nitrate of soda iv used potassium nitrate both spectracide and hi- yield brands I desolve both In hot distilled water then put in the fridge to recrystallize but probably loose half my weight in doing so. Have tried nitrate of soda tho it's much cheaper I'm only using this to make nitric acid.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I can buy both from walmart.com at the best price 50 bucks for 10 pounds of spectracide stump remover and 33 bucks for 12 pounds of hi yield nitrate of soda

You should shop around a little more. Ace Hardware sells 4 pound bags of Hi-Yield nitrate of soda for $6.59. Duda Energy sells 5 pound bags of potassium nitrate for $12.25. Be frugal.

Dave

 

[Shark]

I can use the Ace rewards cards and Pay $1.59 per 4 pound bag and get a gallon of Hydrochloric acid for $2 and change. The last of nitric I bought was $7 and change per gallon for 15 gallons, less the first deposit for the keg. The larger quantity you can buy the lower the price per unit, eg gallon or pound.

 

[fivel_976]

I've got an ace hardware local but they don't stock nitrate of soda I'd have to order it on there website and pick it up at the store for 7.59 a bag. How does the ace card bring it down so cheap

 

[Shark]

They send me two $5 discount cards every month or so to be used one card per item. I sometimes use them for other things, but the sodium nitrate I use on my plants as well as for refining so I often just trade them in for the fertilizer.

 

[fivel_976]

Ordered 1 bag of nitrate of soda from ace will give it a shot is it the same as potassium nitrate do I add equal amounts of dry and wet ingredients?

 

[anachronism]

I might be missing something here so feel free to correct me but why would you buy a product that isn't the pure chemical you need, when you can buy the pure chemical?

 

[Shark]

I might be missing something here so feel free to correct me but why would you buy a product that isn't the pure chemical you need, when you can buy the pure chemical?

For me it is about the convenience, and it does the job that most require to produce a good quality product. Of course I much prefer to just buy the nitric and be done with it, but that isn't an option for many people.

 

[anachronism]

Thanks Shark

 

[Shark]

Ordered 1 bag of nitrate of soda from ace will give it a shot is it the same as potassium nitrate do I add equal amounts of dry and wet ingredients?

Potassium nitrate and sodium nitrate are not the same. It is also not an equal mix ratio to make them into nitric acid. This is where the chemistry comes into play. Chemistry will allow you to calculate the amount of each chemical you need to produce a decent product. I really wish I could do these calculations, but it is above my ability yet. Luckily it has been done several times already on the forum. A small search should find several references to it. Here is just one of many......

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1330&p=11223&hilit=sulfate+and+nitric#p11223

butcher has made so many great posts and reply's concerning the making of it that a search using his name would be a plus. Between butcher and metalic mario I learned to make my own back when I first started. I enjoyed it, I learned to do many things using it and was glad I did it. BUT...the time spent making a gallon of nitric could be used to process quite a lot of silver using a bought gallon of nitric AND avoid the dangers involved making it. This is why so many just advise to go buy it, it is one of those "been there, done that," things that is hard to explain. And like me sometimes, I find it easier(?) to learn it the hard way.

 

[fivel_976]

Can't seem to find what I'm looking for need a recipe for sodium nitrate and sulfuric acid in a 1000ml simple distillation. Normally I run 250 grams of potassium nitrate and 250 grams of sulfuric acid with great results

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Try Concentrate Nitric Acid ?.

Dave

 

[fivel_976]

thanks for the post guys i read through them and still cant find a clear answer think ill just try 200 grams of nitrate soda and 200 grams drain cleaner distill it at 120c and see what comes out the other end if anything else ill spread the soda around my plants and go back to the potassium nitrate thats been working for me. i like vary simple equations im not so much intrested in the cemestry as im in the metels thanks

 

[Shark]

You should read both links that were posted, the information you need is there, you just have to do a little basic math.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

thanks for the post guys i read through them and still cant find a clear answer think ill just try 200 grams of nitrate soda and 200 grams drain cleaner distill it at 120c and see what comes out the other end if anything else ill spread the soda around my plants and go back to the potassium nitrate thats been working for me. i like vary simple equations im not so much intrested in the cemestry as im in the metels thanks

fivel, it's posts like yours that discourage many members from trying to help.

From the thread that I linked to, in the 21^st post down:

-Bring 100 mL of Distilled Water in a 500 mL pyrex beaker to 100 C
-Add the Nitre of your choice (202 gm K / 170 gm Na)
-Stir until Nitre is completely dissolved, let cool below boiling
-SLOWLY add 56 mL conc (96%+) Sulfuric Acid to Hot Nitre solution while stirring, DON'T allow the solution to boil!
-Allow solution to cool to room temp (DO NOT SKIP - VESSEL WILL SHATTER IF PUT ON ICE WHILE HOT!!!)
-When vessel reaches room temp (25 °C) put the vessel in the freezer or on a salt water ice bath
-Let stand until temperature of mixture reaches -5 °C
-Let stand at -5 °C until all precipitate settles
-Pour the COLD solution off into glass container with tightly sealed lid DO NOT POUR OFF ANY OF THE SALT IN THE BOTTOM!!!
-Makes ~160 mL ~50% HNO3

He has handed you the precise quantities to use, and I handed you the link. If you want to waste chemicals, it's your money, but when someone tries to help you, at least take the time to study the links they provide.

Dave

 

[rickzeien]

To Dave, Shark, Lou, and all of the great people who give of there time AND invaluable expertise.

Don't let a few people that refuse to be helped stop you from administering your experience and advise.

This forum is hands down the best of it's kind , on PM refining, or any other for that matter.

I know of no other place one could obtain beginning, intermediate and expert level advise and the archive data this site contains.

Your selfless gift of time and knowledge is noticed and acknowledged by a vast silent majority of this forum.

Thanks again!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[fivel_976]

I'm looking for a distilling recipe I need higher concentrated acid the only suitable container I have for holding my acid is only 500ml I'll dilute it as I need I'm also not trying to but chemicals in the freezer where my family eats from all I wanted to know was can I distill my acid with sodium nitrate the same way i do with potassium nitrate I don't have alot of equipment for changing my processes

 

[FrugalRefiner]

This will probably be my last response to you, and you probably won't like it.

I'm looking for a distilling recipe

Put what you want to distill into a container and heat it until stuff starts to fume off. Capture those fumes, cool them, and capture the distillate. That's a distilling recipe.

I need higher concentrated acid the only suitable container I have for holding my acid is only 500ml I'll dilute it as I need

The link I provided will give you a somewhat crude nitric acid at around 50%. Distill it to it's azeotrope of 68% as described above.

I'm also not trying to but chemicals in the freezer where my family eats from

Is that the only way Steve suggested you could use to cool the solution?

When vessel reaches room temp (25 °C) put the vessel in the freezer or on a salt water ice bath

all I wanted to know was can I distill my acid with sodium nitrate the same way i do with potassium nitrate I don't have alot of equipment for changing my processes

While I don't know how you currently distill your acid, I would say, yes, probably.

Best of luck,
Dave