Non-Chemical approach

[In Love With]

Hello all

after researching that Nitric Acid as well as Hydrochloric Acid are not "purchaseable" in Germany I had almost given up on creating my "own" gold from scrap ... until I saw this:




It appears like a very decent process without using any harmful chemicals as such... Now my question, has anyone got experience with that and is it usable for copper plated contacts (as the fingers are circuit board, not metal as a base)?

Still at the information gathering stage here --- Well, I did order some lab equipment and some H2O2 already, but want to make sure that the process is as solid as possible prior to throwing hundreds or thousands Euros worth of contacts into a process that might end up not working ...

Thanks all and have a great weekend

ILW

 

[Yggdrasil]

I haven’t seen the whole video.
But vinegar creates just as dangerous salts as HCl. Actually Salt and Vinegar creates a weak HCl.
HCl are available everywhere also within the EU.
It is among other things used for cleaning render on walls or other cement/ceramic products.
Toilets for instance since it dissolves the lime residue from hard water.
If you get hold of HCl just add some green copper scrap until the green is gone and you have AP.
Or a cap or so with Hydrogen Peroxide to a liter or more HCl and put in your PCB fingers and start the air bubbler.

Edit for clarity

 

[efka]

I don't know how you researched, but HCl is easy available. You can go to some of the big Hardware stores and buy the 20% stuff used for cleaning or simply type "Salzsäure" into eBay and buy the 30% stuff for much cheaper money. As Yggdrasil posted, vinegar and salt creates a weak HCl. So even if you start with "safer" chemicals, you end up with a compareable toxic soup. No offense, but if you wasn't able to find out you can buy HCl in Germany, i doubt you are ready to recover and refine yet...

 

[Yggdrasil]

And your heading is wrong, it is just as chemical as AR

 

[rickbb]

The only "non-chemical" approach is to mechanically scrap the gold off the copper. See how far you can get with that.

Vinegar is a chemical, acetic acid, salt is a chemical, sodium chloride. 90% of all recovery and refining YouTube videos are useless or worse, stop watching them before you hurt yourself.

Look at any place that sells swimming pool supplies, they have HCL as a PH reducer. Look at any place that sells masonry supplies, they have muriatic acid, (HCL), as a cement cleaner.

Search the forum for poor mans AR, or even better the AP process. No nitric needed for gold plated scrap at all.

 

[nickvc]

It always makes me smile when we get posts about chemical free methods and processes and then we hear of using salt or vinegar or other household items…… do the posters not realize that everything we eat drink and use are chemicals

 

[In Love With]

Thank you for all the answers.

As I mentioned, I have not done anything yet, neither am I planning on until I am confident that things wont blow up in my face ...

Just did a quick research and it does turn out that 30% HCL is easily available in Germany (no idea where I picked up the notion that it was not) ...

Will look into the AP process then ...

Thanks all for your help, much appreciated

ILW

 

[nickvc]

One of the reasons i posted what I did is because many think that by using household items it is safer ….. but the truth is you can create some very toxic elements without knowing it if you do not understand the chemistry that is occurring when you mix them and if you dissolve any metals highly toxic waste.

 

[stoneware]

Tumble fingers and gold plated pins in a small lapidary rock tumbler, save the brown powder to cupel.

The nickle underlay has a harder surface that the top layer of gold so no copper abrades off of the fingers. Same with pins.

 

[GoIdman]

Thank you for all the answers.

As I mentioned, I have not done anything yet, neither am I planning on until I am confident that things wont blow up in my face ...

Just did a quick research and it does turn out that 30% HCL is easily available in Germany (no idea where I picked up the notion that it was not) ...

Will look into the AP process then ...

Thanks all for your help, much appreciated

ILW

Hi,
You can search online for "Aquafuerte" it is 20% HCl, it is available at almost every hardware store in EU and it costs about 4 euro/l. Works just fine.

Be safe

Pete

 

[BlackLabel]

ILW,

In the moment you start any kind of treatment (except grinding), you start a chemical reaction.
You must not think, it can't be dangerous as long you don't use any dangerous chemicals.
If you burn material that contains zinc, you will get "medium-toxic" zincoxide (ZnO).
If you burn plastics, you will get all kinds of toxic and/or cancerous material.
Chemical treatments can and will create side products.
To know what will happen is the key.

 

[In Love With]

Thanks again for your input ... Even though I have ordered some HCl as well as H2O2, beakers and various lab equipment, I have decided not to start ANYTHING prior to not being 100% sure what I am doing ...

Currently looking into the AP method and realising that I need to learn a lot more before handling anything safe ...

Have a great Sunday all

 

[ReedKidd]

I haven’t seen the whole video.
But vinegar creates just as dangerous salts as HCl. Actually Salt and Vinegar creates a weak HCl.
HCl are available everywhere also within the EU.
It is among other things used for cleaning render on walls or other cement/ceramic products.
Toilets for instance since it dissolves the lime residue from hard water.
If you get hold of HCl just add some green copper scrap until the green is gone and you have AP.
Or a cap or so with Hydrogen Peroxide to a liter or more HCl and put in your PCB fingers and start the air bubbler.

Edit for clarity

How important/necessary is the air bubbler? I do not use one but am wondering what it would change for my process. Getting electric to my process location would be a pain. It’s at the back of my property. It’s all enclosed in a plastic cabinet.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

The air bubbler speeds up the process. Oxygen from the air oxidizes CuCl to CuCl₂, which is what dissolves more copper. Without an air bubbler, the solution only absorbs oxygen at the surface of the solution. With the air bubbler, the solution is constantly being stirred and a lot more oxygen gets into the solution.

If an air bubbler is inconvenient, you can simply stir the solution manually from time to time. It will still get the job done. It is just slower.

Dave

 

[Martijn]

Thanks again for your input ... Even though I have ordered some HCl as well as H2O2, beakers and various lab equipment, I have decided not to start ANYTHING prior to not being 100% sure what I am doing ...

Currently looking into the AP method and realising that I need to learn a lot more before handling anything safe ...

Have a great Sunday all

Be carefull with addition of H2O2, it's only used to start the formation of CuCl, but too much will put gold in solution. It can cement back out in places that are hard to recover the gold from like copper traces inside PCB's or components.

 

[orvi]

Thanks again for your input ... Even though I have ordered some HCl as well as H2O2, beakers and various lab equipment, I have decided not to start ANYTHING prior to not being 100% sure what I am doing ...

Currently looking into the AP method and realising that I need to learn a lot more before handling anything safe ...

Have a great Sunday all

Attitude is good. H2O2 is doble edged sword, and for people new to refining, I would advise not to use it first time, but in turn wait few more days for the process to go to the completion just with air bubbling. It is just for the kickstart the reaction, not to handle it all through to the end. Oxygen will accomplish this. And it could also start the reaction, same way as H2O2 does, but with oxygen it is much slower from the start. But if added in excess or at higher temperature, it could dissolve gold.
AP method is practically a deviation from old jewellers method to redissolve gold dust - HCL and peroxide. If you add enough H2O2 and HCL and heat it, you will start to dissolve gold. By prolonged heating, all H2O2 will decompose to oxygen and chlorine, so no need to de-nox or boil down the solution before gold drop just to explain the background.

 

[Ratchel99]

Tumble fingers and gold plated pins in a small lapidary rock tumbler, save the brown powder to cupel.

The nickle underlay has a harder surface that the top layer of gold so no copper abrades off of the fingers. Same with pins.

How long should i set the timer for on the tumbler?

 

[stoneware]

How long should i set the timer for on the tumbler?

I used my ball mill without the ball as my tumbler loaded with 60 pounds of gold plated fingers, ran it overnight.

Very little damage to the boards, just rounded corners.

Try 3 to 4 hours, when your done rinse the media and inside of the tumbler into a coffee filter, the brown powder will be the gold your after.

Incinerate the powder then refine it using either wet or pyro chemistry.

 

[BlackLabel]

How long should i set the timer for on the tumbler?

Hi Ratchel99?

Nobody can answer this for you, except:
"Run it until it's done."

The results will vary with every run.
Changing factors:
- size and form of your tumbler
- size and form of your material
- use of "milling devices" (steel balls, nuts, rocks,…)
- quality of your material
- fill level of your tumbler
- speed of your tumbler
- maybe temperature

Try, watch and learn.

I wouldn't use a tumbler for foils/fingers.

 

[stoneware]

Using the tumbler the pins and fingers are all that's needed to abrade the gold free.

I use the tumbler also for electrical contacts from hot water thank thermostats and electric ranges, pressure switches and small relays.

Processing the metal powders recovered from tumbling cuts down on the amount of acids needed.

Often on silver plated flatware the silver has worn off in places just from improper handling, washing or polishing.

Also a known fact some gold fingers are so lightly plated the gold could be rubbed off with a pencil eraser