noob here. help please!

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bgp_scrap

Active member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
25
Hi guys, new to the forums but read them alot.
First off, this isn't my first batch.
Ive done 4 other perfect runs, but this time im stumped. Followed every step right. From hno3 until no reaction, filtered washed, aqua regia, let it rest, strained diluted by half with distilled water, adeed urea until it stopped fizzing, then added smb.
Smb sulfite, not sulfate :)
Didnt work.. I mixed with smb with hot water first and stirred in ar slowly.
Read here that aluminum will drop all the metals. So.. No impurities, hey why not!
Well it worked!
Byt.. I have black powder, not tgat awesome light chocolate money pile.
Any ideas as where to go next? Maybe try refining it again? What could have done it?
T.I.A
 
bgp_scrap said:
Read here that aluminum will drop all the metals. So.. No impurities, hey why not!
No impurities?
If aluminum will drop all metals, there is (and always will be) impurities in the end result, if for no other reason, they are contained in the aluminum (which is rarely pure).

Byt.. I have black powder, not tgat awesome light chocolate money pile.
Any ideas as where to go next? Maybe try refining it again?
Yes, refine it again, this time without using aluminum.
Before you do, give the material a prolonged wash in heated HCl. That will help eliminate the aluminum that is present, which has the potential to complicate filtration.

What could have done it?
See my first entry in this post.

Harold
 
Thanks harold!
I thought to re-process but as I played with a little the insides gold coloured but black outside. Figured id get a second opinion :)
So redo the whole process after a not so quick hot bath in hcl? Thanks a bunch!
Gunna put in the back of my mind not to use aluminum again.
But for further inquiry, what could have caused the smb to not work? I dont poor man ar or chince material. Use everything suggested from the smb to 70% nitric shipped from j.t baker.
Any suggestions are great :)

EDIT: I fuess my ideology was correct but I over looked the aluminum itself as a contaminant . Correct?

Blake.
 
There is allot here for you to learn about exactly what it is you are doing.
You should not need Urea to do anything except fertilizing your flowers.
You need to read in here and learn why nothing dropped when you added SMB, that part was right but you did not complete steps before adding.

I do hope you read the safety section as well as disposing of spent solutions the right way.

Welcome to the forum and hope you start with the welcome section which will guide you through.

B.S.
 
I note that I was negligent in not recommending the material be incinerated before it was given a wash in heated HCl. That step ensures that there are no nitrates present, so gold, if present, won't be re-dissolved. I apologize.

Harold
 
But for further inquiry, what could have caused the smb to not work?

One thing for sure: The more you do it exactly like it is taught in Hoke and this forum, the better a precipitation you will get.

I suspect contaminants, left over nitric or nitrates, high dilution (little gold) and/or impatience to be the answer to your question.

Additionally to what is already been said, I'd like to give you some compact advises, that would have helped me a lot, before I came to this foum:
Powders are easily dissolved by HCl/chlorox method, which is much easier to handle. Read also especially deeply into the absolutely mandatory steps incineration and HCl washes. If you can't avoid AR, learn about avoiding excess nitric, gold button method and sulfamic. Learn to be patient. If you are, try to get even more patient.
 
Well gee,thanks harold, LOL. Guess I repeat the process again., lmao

Patience I have, ive been working on this batch a week now lol.

All my solution gets dumped in a sealed container and picked up by northwest sanitation.
Resp. And glove always,of course :)
Anyways, guess 8 days on a 5g sample makes a nice,pay cheque... Not... XD next time ill try the hcl/cl method next time,

As far as urea goes, I read somewhere on the grf that since its basically just nitrogen it would neutralize the solution, but I guess it would infact just add too many nitrates,to the solution.
Thanks guys, back off to the races and hoarding material, and more reading.
 
I could be wrong, but I feel I can determine a mistake in your attitude, that I did myself: thinking to be smart and already knowing a lot :lol: (laughing at myself) some water will flow down the river before you'll know, what I mean.
 
Read also especially deeply into the absolutely mandatory steps incineration and HCl washes. If you can't avoid AR, learn about avoiding excess nitric, gold button method and sulfamic. Learn to be patient. If you are, try to get even more patient.

That is good advice for refining in general.

As for 8 days and 5 grams, don't panic :lol: . I spent 6 months getting to 6 grams at around a .1 gram average per refine. I did do a 3 gram process that I should have waited to attempt, but it worked out fine once I realized there was silver involved. Poor paycheck? I have never made any money from refining, I am still in a hole money wise :lol: . But I am loving it so much as a hobby I just can't stop now.
 
Shark said:
As for 8 days and 5 grams, don't panic :lol: . I spent 6 months getting to 6 grams at around a .1 gram average per refine. I did do a 3 gram process that I should have waited to attempt, but it worked out fine once I realized there was silver involved. Poor paycheck? I have never made any money from refining, I am still in a hole money wise :lol: . But I am loving it so much as a hobby I just can't stop now.
One thing that is being overlooked (by almost everyone) is that an education is not free. It comes about as close to free as it can on this board, but those who have a serious intention of learning will pay dues by trial and error, or by spending their time reading and researching. Precious few are exempt, as none of us are born with the knowledge to refine---we stand on the shoulders of those who have gone before us (assuming we're wise enough to do so).

Running small lots, as you've done, is the smart thing to do. Sure, you don't get much of a payback that way, but you do in wisdom, which is the real purpose of running the small batches. If they go south, you haven't lost much, but you will have gained the knowledge of what to do (or not to do) to achieve your goal.

When I started in my trade (machinist), I was what would be considered a "hot shot". I was fast. Very fast, indeed. Problem was, I was fast at making scrap, which, in the missile industry, bodes poorly for one's future. I had several good supervisors (mentors), but one stood out above the others. He had faith in me and worked with me on a personal basis. His first admonition was to slow down. He'd hand me a print at the beginning of the shift, and detail how many pieces were required. He stressed that he wasn't concerned with how long it took---only that the pieces were per print. That was the beginning of my success----although it took several months (working eight hour days) before I had confidence and capability to perform to requirements.

Refining precious metals requires less skill than machining, but it, too, requires dedication, study and patience. With the proper approach, I have stated that I could teach a monkey to refine---assuming he'd pay attention to what he was told.

You guys can do it---just don't get creative and circumvent that which is known to work. Once you have the basics under your belt, you can make decisions about how you can improve the procedures. That's how I came up with my washing technique-----and how I discovered how to deal with contaminants that create problems with filtration and overall quality. I understood the ramifications of incineration. It all came well after I was already refining---but I followed Hoke's teachings pretty much to the letter until I understood what was happening. If it worked for me, it can work for you. After all, I was a lousy student in school.

Harold
 
Well I agree that its a wicked hobby and its addicting!
But I was always a sharp student, especially in chemistry as a gen.ed. In college. With that under my belt i can fathom and understand the basics of whats going on, but, nobodies ever perfect. In fact im far from even good at it,
Harold, could I have a copy of hokes book? I'd love to read it
Please dont take my prior posts for ignorance or arrogance, I far from know exactly what im doing, I just have a mere understanding of chemistry and basic formulas and how elements react with one another via negative/positive ions.,

Again, any insight, help or guidence is always welcome :)
P.s is hno3 under heated circumstances does not react with this black substance, but after a thorough flood/drain wash it reacted with hcl. Is my contaminant just the aluminum? Because at the time I added the aluminum, the solution went tan/milk chocolate brown. And I allowed this to rest 24 hours and filtered. It was only when I tried drying it in my pyrex dish that it went black
T.i.A
Edit: it has been quiet some time since I was in.college though. Lol. Currently sitting.with a yellow solution unsure of where to go with it... Stannous tests dark purple.
 

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