After I worked 18 hrs I was glad to come home to the bottom of my jar covered with gold mud. I accidentally put the excess hcl/metasulf in a jug with old left over hcl/peroxide waste. The jug had unfiltered slush and little trash. It is green. As the last little drop ran out I realized I never checked to see if all the gold precipitated out. I then grabbed a q-tip and stuck it in the jug. I tested with stannous chloride and it showed positive for gold. I looked at the gold mud I had in the jar and noticed that there is no way it's going to b 6.3 grams. I was practicing as several books I have read said to do so I know exactly the weight I was using. I am tired so I am going to bed before I screw something else up. I'm thinking I should filter the solutions to get hall off the trash out then add meta. Then test solution w stan. If all has dropped , rinse, then bubble/boil not to much in distilled h2o. The should I bathe in 50/50 nitric/h20/warm. Then bring to a slow bubble/boil. When I say "bubble/boil" it means almost a boil. I'm not sure of all the refiner lingo yet. I'm definitely not a chemist but I'm trying to learn. I want to be as detailed as possible so maybe someone has some info that can help. I set my phone down for a second and took a small sample as it says to do often in Hokes book. I add a little water to dilute the peroxide/hcl/metasulp/trash and filtered it. It was a cloudy bright green. Then I added metasulph. It turned almost a clear blue and I think it is precipitating the gold. Suggestions? Sorry so long.
Oops!! Rookie mistake. What should I do?
- Thread starter Mmon2616
- Start date
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Geo
Well-known member
Got any photos of what you have so far?
Pantherlikher
Well-known member
Hello Mmon2616 and welcome to the forum.
How long have you been on the forum reading and learning what you are doing before making messes and losing PMs?
My guess is not long as you still have not learned that the forum requires correct wording, like sodium metabisulfite or SMB.
"I accidentally put the excess hcl/metasulf in a jug with old left over hcl/peroxide waste. The jug had unfiltered slush and little trash. It is green."
HCL and SMB? Is there other acids in this mix? HCL alone will not dissolve and PMs so... What did you do to have what solution that you accidently added AP to?
My guess is you need to learn alot more before doing anything else.
If you are using HCL + nitric acid to make Aqua Regia(AR) to dissolve PMs, then dropping with SMB, you probably have more of a mess then you realize. AP however, has alot of copper in solution so it may or may not drop all PMs.
What material have you put in acids? Clean? Solder free? Tin free?
Whole boards? Karot gold?
My suggestion is to put a flat piece of copper in and let it sit untill you learn the rest of what to do with what you have.
B.S.
How long have you been on the forum reading and learning what you are doing before making messes and losing PMs?
My guess is not long as you still have not learned that the forum requires correct wording, like sodium metabisulfite or SMB.
"I accidentally put the excess hcl/metasulf in a jug with old left over hcl/peroxide waste. The jug had unfiltered slush and little trash. It is green."
HCL and SMB? Is there other acids in this mix? HCL alone will not dissolve and PMs so... What did you do to have what solution that you accidently added AP to?
My guess is you need to learn alot more before doing anything else.
If you are using HCL + nitric acid to make Aqua Regia(AR) to dissolve PMs, then dropping with SMB, you probably have more of a mess then you realize. AP however, has alot of copper in solution so it may or may not drop all PMs.
What material have you put in acids? Clean? Solder free? Tin free?
Whole boards? Karot gold?
My suggestion is to put a flat piece of copper in and let it sit untill you learn the rest of what to do with what you have.
B.S.
Pantherlikher
Well-known member
I think I remember now...
We have been pointing you in the right direction and have been trying to get you to learn before diving into doing.
Please heed the warnings...You will hurt yourself, others around you or cause major envirenmental problems if you do not learn what you are doing!!!
Like all of us, you have gold fever and want it now... Being so young tells me you are the "Need it now" generation. This is a bad thing. You want everything handed to you without doing the work right the first time.
You are going to do alot and lose alot unless you take time and learn. Hoke's book is a great start but can be confusing. She delt with alot of the "old ways" or doing things. For instance, we do NOT taste anything to see if it has chemically changed.
You need to research and read through the forum at great length to learn what processes from start to finish to get what you want.
I see you have a nice supply of silver comming in. Have you read anything on the forum about how to deal with it to get silver? How to treat all the solutions for proper disposal? This is the "elephant in the room" as a google search here will explain. How many containers of solution do you have sitting around?
Please learn before doing anything else
B.S.
We have been pointing you in the right direction and have been trying to get you to learn before diving into doing.
Please heed the warnings...You will hurt yourself, others around you or cause major envirenmental problems if you do not learn what you are doing!!!
Like all of us, you have gold fever and want it now... Being so young tells me you are the "Need it now" generation. This is a bad thing. You want everything handed to you without doing the work right the first time.
You are going to do alot and lose alot unless you take time and learn. Hoke's book is a great start but can be confusing. She delt with alot of the "old ways" or doing things. For instance, we do NOT taste anything to see if it has chemically changed.
You need to research and read through the forum at great length to learn what processes from start to finish to get what you want.
I see you have a nice supply of silver comming in. Have you read anything on the forum about how to deal with it to get silver? How to treat all the solutions for proper disposal? This is the "elephant in the room" as a google search here will explain. How many containers of solution do you have sitting around?
Please learn before doing anything else
B.S.
I haven't been doing this long and yes I have been doing research. Sorry I abbreviated some chemical names wrong I was just using my own short word description. I'm not a chemist and I am fairly new at this but I am trying to learn. Unfortunately mistakes happen. People learn from them. I am very carful when using chemicals. I understand trying to get people to do research and learn how to do this the correct way. That's why I've been practicing step by step like Hoke says. I understand how to get the copper out of solution. I haven't processed any silver because I do not know enough. It seems as though you guys get upset when someone that is trying to learn . Unfortunately reading books and thousands of different post on forums isn't what teaches me. I can read everything but until I start slowly practicing hands on I will not learn. It's just like out in the field I work in. You can go to school for years but until you see REAL WORLD situations you will never learn. I'm pretty sure that not 100% of the best refiners did everything perfect when they started including research every detail. I also understand that it's kind of a fraternity. It's hard for you to let noobs in. I get it. I'm just a guy that had a passion for PM refining. I sincerely apologize for the incorrect abbreviations. I was not even thinking that would be an issue. I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I made a mistake that I haven't made before. I also apologize for that. I will continue to read and research so that I can do the best I can. In the mean time I'm going to continue practicing hands on. Whether anyone agrees or not. Yes I have some silver sitting around. I am trying to learn how to do that the right way as well. I won't start on that until I have the correct information. As soon as I understand the basics once again I will start practicing with the silver. Disposal and safety were the first two things I learned . Thanks for the help. I actually dropped the rest of the gold last night. The last thing you want to do is be condescending and scare away people that may not be doing it the correct way. I am trying my best to learn how to do everything the absolute correct way. It takes time and mistakes to learn. I'm not asking anyone to do it for me or to teach me in one day. I just thought I needed help with a problem I had. But I did research and I took care of it myself. Thanks for your concern.
joubjonn
Well-known member
I made all kinds of mistakes. Like heating a melting dish on cement and the cement ended up blowing up in my face. One time I was in the wash procedure of gold mud and accidentally added Clorox to my gold powder that had a bit of HCl in it because my ammonia bottle and Clorox bottle are the exact same size I just wasn't paying attention. We all do things like that. Trick is to understand how to fix it. Which I did. As long as you can learn from the mistake (seems like you will) you won't have any problems here on the forum!
Digitaria
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2014
- Messages
- 137
Hiya - I appreciate your honesty. I don't think you should be concerned too much about making mistakes, and scaring people away by sharing your experiences. In my opinion these guys want to scare you, at least initially so that you appreciate the dangers involved. These guys are not being jerks, I am sure they have a game plan and in my my opinion they speak man o man, so that you will listen. I think people use to call it character building in the old days. lol
I'm glad you sorted your problem out, thanks for sharing, I'm glad I'm not the only person who makes mistakes. Please don't be offended and even if you are offended, at least you will be alive. The refining process can be very dangerous. You sound quite studios, so let the guys have a go, take the ribbing and let them help you and get to know you, the door is open so, don't feel unwelcome, I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it.
As for the silver drop, I've heard on here its best to pre-process everything, somewhat like every extra step you take, is one step further to a cleaner gold drop, with less impurities, for example silver, which you can, pre-drop in a nitric and water pre-treatment, diluted with water when everything is dissolved. You do need to start with in-quartered material to start with which will even drop you some gold, without chemicals which you can then filter an re-process in aqua regia, but this initial step, can get rid of a lot of silver first, so that only a bit will drop in aqua regia later.
I'm glad you sorted your problem out, thanks for sharing, I'm glad I'm not the only person who makes mistakes. Please don't be offended and even if you are offended, at least you will be alive. The refining process can be very dangerous. You sound quite studios, so let the guys have a go, take the ribbing and let them help you and get to know you, the door is open so, don't feel unwelcome, I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it.
As for the silver drop, I've heard on here its best to pre-process everything, somewhat like every extra step you take, is one step further to a cleaner gold drop, with less impurities, for example silver, which you can, pre-drop in a nitric and water pre-treatment, diluted with water when everything is dissolved. You do need to start with in-quartered material to start with which will even drop you some gold, without chemicals which you can then filter an re-process in aqua regia, but this initial step, can get rid of a lot of silver first, so that only a bit will drop in aqua regia later.
Mmon2616,
Welcome to the forum my friend.
I will be honest with you, I cannot help you with this problem or question, because I could not understand what it was, or what you were talking about, you went into details that were unimportant, and did not explain important details, words I did not understand distracted me also from what you were trying to say, yes you have to do to learn, along with study, mistakes is also part of learning, if you do not make mistakes your not doing anything.
As you study you will begin to learn the language better, the better you can write the easier it will be for others to understand you, I actually have learned to speak the language of recovery and refining from being a member of the forum and from my work in study of this art, I also have learned to write better since being a member, I still make mistakes, and do things wrong, and I am still learning from my mistakes...
Abbreviations of words, or text lingo can make it hard for others to understand you, in chemistry one letter in a word or name of a chemical can be very important, take the letters a and i for example in the following words, sodium bisulfate, and sodium bisulfite, both are very similar and related, but also very different chemicals, especially in the chemistry of gold refining, that little bit of difference in spelling may seem unimportant at first glance, but can be a major difference in the chemistry of refining gold, this is one reason we stress being as accurate as possible, we can get someone hurt by making a mistake in spelling of chemical names.
We understand your new, and hold no ill because of that, as long as you do the best you can we will do our best to help you, we also understand nobody is perfect, see for example even long term members who have done a lot of study to learn this art still make mistakes, and even mistakes in spelling like spelling Karat gold (Karot gold).
Welcome to the forum I will try to help you where I can, it is easier for me to follow questions without a lot of unnecessary details, sticking to the point, and the more details you give about what your doing or how you have gotten to this point will help to give a better understanding of your problem.
You need a tougher skin, criticism here (can hurt a bit), but it can also be very helpful, on the forum you need to be able to take criticism (but not let it hurt your pride), the criticism is meant to help, with that you can walk tall and learn from it, I often am showed where I am wrong, or use the wrong word, I can take the criticism in the way intended, and am thankful for it, I learn the best I can from it, and do the best I can to do better.
As your friend I will tell you where I see things wrong, any criticism I give will be to try and help you. Do not take it wrong, do not let your pride get in the way, and I also expect you to help me where you can, I have a tough enough skin to take the criticism and will welcome it coming from my new friend.
Study the best you can, and study well, before working with these toxic chemicals and metals, get a good understanding before working, and then when you do work you will still make mistakes, learn from them also, we all do.
This is a complicated and dangerous art, the more you study and learn the better you will do at it, and the more easier it will become, but it is something none of us know everything about, and none of us will not make mistakes in, and all of us are learning to better speak and write about, as we learn, you are brand new to this, I have been doing it for quite a few years, but I am still a babe at it, and I have a lifetime of learning to do myself, I can improve a lot in this art, and I know if you keep up with your study and practice I will also learn from you.
Pantherlikher,
it is karat gold.
Welcome to the forum my friend.
I will be honest with you, I cannot help you with this problem or question, because I could not understand what it was, or what you were talking about, you went into details that were unimportant, and did not explain important details, words I did not understand distracted me also from what you were trying to say, yes you have to do to learn, along with study, mistakes is also part of learning, if you do not make mistakes your not doing anything.
As you study you will begin to learn the language better, the better you can write the easier it will be for others to understand you, I actually have learned to speak the language of recovery and refining from being a member of the forum and from my work in study of this art, I also have learned to write better since being a member, I still make mistakes, and do things wrong, and I am still learning from my mistakes...
Abbreviations of words, or text lingo can make it hard for others to understand you, in chemistry one letter in a word or name of a chemical can be very important, take the letters a and i for example in the following words, sodium bisulfate, and sodium bisulfite, both are very similar and related, but also very different chemicals, especially in the chemistry of gold refining, that little bit of difference in spelling may seem unimportant at first glance, but can be a major difference in the chemistry of refining gold, this is one reason we stress being as accurate as possible, we can get someone hurt by making a mistake in spelling of chemical names.
We understand your new, and hold no ill because of that, as long as you do the best you can we will do our best to help you, we also understand nobody is perfect, see for example even long term members who have done a lot of study to learn this art still make mistakes, and even mistakes in spelling like spelling Karat gold (Karot gold).
Welcome to the forum I will try to help you where I can, it is easier for me to follow questions without a lot of unnecessary details, sticking to the point, and the more details you give about what your doing or how you have gotten to this point will help to give a better understanding of your problem.
You need a tougher skin, criticism here (can hurt a bit), but it can also be very helpful, on the forum you need to be able to take criticism (but not let it hurt your pride), the criticism is meant to help, with that you can walk tall and learn from it, I often am showed where I am wrong, or use the wrong word, I can take the criticism in the way intended, and am thankful for it, I learn the best I can from it, and do the best I can to do better.
As your friend I will tell you where I see things wrong, any criticism I give will be to try and help you. Do not take it wrong, do not let your pride get in the way, and I also expect you to help me where you can, I have a tough enough skin to take the criticism and will welcome it coming from my new friend.
Study the best you can, and study well, before working with these toxic chemicals and metals, get a good understanding before working, and then when you do work you will still make mistakes, learn from them also, we all do.
This is a complicated and dangerous art, the more you study and learn the better you will do at it, and the more easier it will become, but it is something none of us know everything about, and none of us will not make mistakes in, and all of us are learning to better speak and write about, as we learn, you are brand new to this, I have been doing it for quite a few years, but I am still a babe at it, and I have a lifetime of learning to do myself, I can improve a lot in this art, and I know if you keep up with your study and practice I will also learn from you.
Pantherlikher,
it is karat gold.
One big rookie mistake you've made, as far as I'm concerned, is to make up your own abbreviations as you go along, instead of spelling out the words or using the accepted abbreviations or symbols. If you mean "be", don't write "b". If you mean "with", don't write "w", unless it's written "w/". If you mean sodium meta bisufite (or SMB), don't write "meta" or "metasulp" or "metasulph" or "metasulf". All 4 of these are meaningless. Use "stannous chloride" (or SnCl2) and not "stan". You get the idea.Mmon2616 said:
kurtak
Well-known member
butcher said:
Speaking of making mistakes - man did I ever make one the other day - it was one of those mistakes where you look around to see if anyone else saw it - even though you are the only one there
filtering/washing a couple lb of silver cement - vacuum filter all set up with silver in the filter funnel - reached around to grab the water jug off the bench for the first wash after vacuuming off the copper nitrate - grabbed the jug of nitric instead & poured (please don't ask what the nitric was still doing on the bench when it should have been put away on the shelf)
but as soon as the foaming reaction along with the brown fumes started the next "reaction" was - Kurt you dumb _________ what the _________ did you just do :shock: :shock: :shock: Needless to say with that much fee nitric now in my silver cement it all went back into a 4 liter beaker for a re-do --- the only good thing about it was it was a real good test on how well the draw of my fume hood is working :lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyway - hope no one has to go to the hospital for a busted gut from laughing after reading this one :mrgreen:
Kurt
