possible iron

[dew129]

hello,

I have a bit of a problem, the other day I went to a local car dealer who was going out of business, they were selling virtually everything. while there a kit of assorted terminals for wire harness caught my eyes, reason being was because of all the various gold plated pieces. I bought them for 3 bucks a box, so went home and separated out the gold plated ones from the standard terminals.

A few days ago I decided to process them, so I started with a bath in nitric and let them soak over night, I then filtered and rinsed and put them in an AR solution, the reaction was very quick and explosive, after about 4 hours the reaction stopped , then I allowed to cool, I then did a stannous test and the solution tested positive for gold. the only problem I have is at the the bottom of my container I have a thick whitishblue fluff which appears to be a lot like AGCL the only problem I have is I wouldn't imagine any of the terminals would have been silver plated, Nextly I have a lot of what looks to have an appearance of rust/coppery color floating around the top.

Can the solution have been so rich in copper that the initial bath in nitric didn't dissolve it all? and then the AR was unable to use up all the copper so now its been pushed out of the solution in metallic forum, or is this iron?

I started with 75 grams of terminal and 250ml of hydrochloric, and 100 ml of distilled water, then added nitric in 20 ml additions allowing each one to react until finally I seen no more reaction.

 

[niteliteone]

Could those connectors have been made of some sort of Bronze alloy and not just plain copper :?:

If so, you now have a mess if you placed this material into AR before removing all the tin from the alloy.

Never, repeat, Never dissolve gold into solution with an abundance of base metals, especially tin. That is if you really want to recover the gold :shock:

 

[Pantherlikher]

Decant solids out. Filter solution. Test for gold, remove excess nitric and drop. See if anything drops.
My guess is brass which is bad. Evaporate solids till dry. Incinerate and begin again?...not sure if you should wash first.

B.S.
I should take better notes. My oldtimer's disease is getting bad.

 

[niteliteone]

Forgot to add;
At this point do not throw out any liquids or solids from this mix. In other words, Keep everything at this time, as the gold is still there somewhere, we just have to find out exactly where.

If there was tin in the solution, your gold will probably be suspended as colloidal gold (single molecules of gold that repel each other) in the liquid and will not normally settle. That is why you need to save ""Every Thing""

 

[Harold_V]

I started with 75 grams of terminal and 250ml of hydrochloric, and 100 ml of distilled water, then added nitric in 20 ml additions allowing each one to react until finally I seen no more reaction.

Surely you're kidding, right?
If you did what you said, what you really need to do is start from the beginning and get a clue about what you should be doing as opposed to what you did.

Before you use AR---all base metals that can be removed should be. From your description, you dissolved something, although I have no idea what, then, without removing the dissolved substance, you added nitric, creating AR. That makes no sense, not at all, and is evidence that you really need to do some reading, until you understand what you're doing, and how it is done.

Once separated from base metals, in particular gold plated materials, the gold will be totally dissolved in seconds. If you watched your material work for hours, you removed precious little of the base metals, if any, and that's always a mistake, as you now have your values mixed with a great deal of garbage.

Read Hoke's book. Read Hoke until you understand what you're trying to do. If you are getting advice off this forum, I suggest you give that some thought, too. All too much misinformation is handed out to the unwary.

Harold

 

[dew129]

I started with 75 grams of terminal and 250ml of hydrochloric, and 100 ml of distilled water, then added nitric in 20 ml additions allowing each one to react until finally I seen no more reaction.

Surely you're kidding, right?
If you did what you said, what you really need to do is start from the beginning and get a clue about what you should be doing as opposed to what you did.

Before you use AR---all base metals that can be removed should be. From your description, you dissolved something, although I have no idea what, then, without removing the dissolved substance, you added nitric, creating AR. That makes no sense, not at all, and is evidence that you really need to do some reading, until you understand what you're doing, and how it is done.

Once separated from base metals, in particular gold plated materials, the gold will be totally dissolved in seconds. If you watched your material work for hours, you removed precious little of the base metals, if any, and that's always a mistake, as you now have your values mixed with a great deal of garbage.

Read Hoke's book. Read Hoke until you understand what you're trying to do. If you are getting advice off this forum, I suggest you give that some thought, too. All too much misinformation is handed out to the unwary.

Harold

Harold,

I have read hoke several times now. I have also made several atempts at refining and have had a great deal of success. this is the first time ive ever tried anything like this with the termianls, I obviously made a mistake and have stopped with my mess, that is why im here to seek out help. at this point im not sure hoke can help much more, as i am unsure of what metals these terminals contain, im hopeing that discussing what i did wrong can help me learn before i attempt something with alot of base metals again. thank you

 

[dew129]

Forgot to add;
At this point do not throw out any liquids or solids from this mix. In other words, Keep everything at this time, as the gold is still there somewhere, we just have to find out exactly where.

If there was tin in the solution, your gold will probably be suspended as colloidal gold (single molecules of gold that repel each other) in the liquid and will not normally settle. That is why you need to save ""Every Thing""

I havent thrown anything out yet, I was hoping i could find some help here on the forum as to what ive done wrong and what might be all in the bottom of my mix, so i dont make a bigger mess, thank you

 

[dew129]

At this point all i have done is filtered the solid away from my acid and have them in seperate containers. What would be the next move?

 

[steyr223]

Hey guys
I will attempt a short answer
DO NOT DO THIS UNTILL IT IS VERIFIED
as i am only going from memory of reading

I would say cement with copper and start over
Put a big flat piece of copper in your solution and stir a lot to expose your solution to as much copper as possable

The pm's will be a black powder at the bottom of the bucket after a few days

Let settle well

But then you probably already know this
Hope this helps steyr223 rob

 

[steyr223]

Sorry
I would ASSUME you would put your solids in with the powders filtered from the cementing

All in a separate container and than proceed to your nitric bath

Opps incinerate all powders and solids first to rid the HCl or you chance making AR again

Steyr223 rob

 

[dew129]

After reading around a bit i now realize the pins were very high in tin versus copper, the reason I started with a nitric bath first was to desolve the base metal of copper first, due to the fact I thought they were high in copper. i should have started with hcl to remove all tin, then filtered and washed, then a nitric bath to remove copper/brass/bronze, then filtered and rinsed, then maybe on into AR. Im here to learn as i do not know everything. So i appreciate of the fact i cand my experiments off you guys, and get some creative critisim back.

 

[dew129]

Hey guys
I will attempt a short answer
DO NOT DO THIS UNTILL IT IS VERIFIED
as i am only going from memory of reading

I would say cement with copper and start over
Put a big flat piece of copper in your solution and stir a lot to expose your solution to as much copper as possable

The pm's will be a black powder at the bottom of the bucket after a few days

Let settle well

But then you probably already know this
Hope this helps steyr223 rob

so what your saying is you would attmept to cement basemetals out of the solution with coper then filter that off and add to my powder and solids? then from there incenerate and begain the proccess from the begining, with proper procedures for elminating all basemetals? before AR

thanks

 

[steyr223]

Yes
But
Wait till one of the pros chimes in
With a hi content of tin you should have meta satanic acid or tin paste its white goo

I am not sure if cementing would be the best approach with the tin involved
If you dont have a tin paste then the tin is still dissolutioned.
Not sure if there is an easier way

Hope this helps steyr223 rob

 

[Platdigger]

No, copper will not cement base metals. Only those metals less reactive.
But, if you just throw a piece of copper in a solution with too much acid
you will end up dissolving a lot of copper before anything cements out.

 

[steyr223]

Opps yes of course
Copper only cements your pmg's
Sorry
And yes i had acid eat a lot of copper but never plated anything out

So how would you approach this

On a side note
tin decides pretty much
When it wants to go in or come out of solution and sometimes there is no logic with the reactivity chart (pease correct me if i am wrong but i have seen tin do some weird things)

Thanks steyr223 rob

 

[Platdigger]

Well, if he was to start over with a new sample batch, I would at least give the
nitric more time to react.
I seems like overnight was just not long enough to get at all the base metals
under the plating.

 

[Harold_V]

Opps yes of course
Copper only cements your pmg's
Sorry
And yes i had acid eat a lot of copper but never plated anything out

So how would you approach this

The entire matter revolves around what was dissolved, and what was not. By testing the solution to determine if any values have been dissolved, and still remain in solution, you'd know how to proceed. If, after exhausting the nitric, there is still base metal present, it's most likely that any values that may have been dissolved will have cemented on the base metals. It is for that reason that all of the solids should be retained, as they tend to be very fine, and do not resemble gold.

Assuming the solution tests barren, it would be separated from the solids---ALL of the solids, which would then be subjected to more dilute nitric acid. I'd do this until the material ceased to react with fresh acid. I would then allow the solids to settle, siphon all I could, then filter the remaining solution, gathering ALL of the solids in the filter. Once dry, I would incinerate the solids, screen, use a magnet to remove any traces of iron, then I'd give the solids a hard boil in HCl. Once well washed, I'd rinse (nothing wrong with tap water) until the rinse water was clear, then I'd dissolve the solids with AR. To introduce nitric or nitrates prior to this point is a mistake, and has no redeeming value.. Any remaining undissolved solids (generally of no value, but not always) would be eliminated when the resulting solution was filtered.

This is a shortcut--not a process sheet. The pregnant solution would most likely need evaporation, and a small amount of sulfuric acid added to ensure no lead followed the values. Once this process is understood, you wonder how it escaped you for so long.

Harold

Edit:
It should be noted that my stock pot contained scrap steel, so any magnetic particles that were removed with the magnet were introduced to my stock pot. That way, any traces of values that may have hitched a ride with the particles would be recovered instead of discarded.

I'll be very succinct. I do not understand why ANYONE uses anything besides steel in a stock pot, but them my objective was to recover traces of copper, along with values, as my waste material was processed by furnace, it was not done chemically. The recovered copper, along with any silver chloride that happened to be gathered, served to act as a collector of values.
What a great savings plan it was!

 

[dew129]

ok so i did a strannous chlroide test on the liquid, and that tested possitive for gold. also while rinsing my solids i discovered alot of gold foil. So my thoughts on dealing with the solids would be to add HCL and allow the white powder to disolve and from the filter off the foils and other coppery substance, rinse well and then soak in nitric. am i stepping down the right path?


thanks guys!!

 

[steyr223]

I am confused
How could you have foils in AR
Gold would be the lat thing to go into solution but only after basemetals are completely dissolved

But your stannous test was positive
How dark was the stannous and did it fade or stay ? And how.long?

I guess you could have a little gold in solution as it is a constant going in coming out process but i thought anything in solution would plate out to base metal

listen to what Harold says he knows what he's talking about follow his instructions to the tee

Do not add hcl unless you incinerate first or you have a chance of making AR again due to traces of nitric even if washed well you can still dissolve values.

Steyr223 rob

 

[dew129]

Yeah, I'm gonna follow what he said. Just a thought, maybe do to the high amounts of cooper maybe the copper exhausted the nitric in the AR before it could fully digest the gold? I have no chemistry back ground but I fell I'm pretty good at following instructions.... I do have a problem with thinking to much so I'm still trying to process exactly what happened in this mess I created. More so interested in learning what reactions took place versus retrieving the gold right this second