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Ok, I've had a bit more of a watch of the video.

I found it painfully slow and still couldn't refrain from skipping little chunks. I don't wish to be ungracious as this gentleman has been kind enough to make a video while I have not. But I think it could be condensed to maybe a third its length.

The pyrolizing, incineration and sieving processes were covered well.

The first AR refine (AR recovery) process was explained comprehensively. But in my opinion he wastes a lot of acid. Even though briefly evaporated down to maybe 80ml or so, he ends up dropping powder from a whopping 700ml or so of solution. All that waste needs to be dealt with.

I'd have evaporated it down slightly thicker to denox, and then only added a touch of HCl based on how much it fizzes up. Not 200ml.
A few drops of sulphuric (or equiv. dash of battery acid) would be good before adding the ice. This helps precipitate lead to a solid sulphate form before the filtering. Or for that matter, it can even help denox. Refer Hoke section V.

I may have skipped over him saying this, but he obviously refined this more than once. You won't get such a shiny button (with pipe) from that single refine and simply melting the black powder it returned.

Overall, very good. He is well set up, knows what he's doing, finished with quality product, and gives good consideration to safety throughout.
 
Few thoughts about value. While mixed and I mean well mixed lots made from many types and sizes of BGA may contain 5g+ of gold in kilogram I have processed BGA S/N IC which returned less than 1g/kilogram. Hence the emphasis on "mixed".
10g/kilogram sound like you are talking about black top part only. I have yet to see or hear about whole BGA S/N IC which do have yield of 10g from kilogram so as I said that number is a yield from black top part only.

- 10 pounds which is 4,5 kilogram of material which may be worth about 950$ bought for 800$ is not a bad deal if they are well mixed variety but as it was mentioned - it is a lot of work :wink: . If you try to speed it up you may get less than expected. If they are of good variety this may be a way to get gold with some small discount providing you do it as hobby and have a lot of free time.
 
patnor1011 said:
Few thoughts about value. While mixed and I mean well mixed lots made from many types and sizes of BGA may contain 5g+ of gold in kilogram I have processed BGA S/N IC which returned less than 1g/kilogram. Hence the emphasis on "mixed".
10g/kilogram sound like you are talking about black top part only. I have yet to see or hear about whole BGA S/N IC which do have yield of 10g from kilogram so as I said that number is a yield from black top part only.

- 10 pounds which is 4,5 kilogram of material which may be worth about 950$ bought for 800$ is not a bad deal if they are well mixed variety but as it was mentioned - it is a lot of work :wink: . If you try to speed it up you may get less than expected. If they are of good variety this may be a way to get gold with some small discount providing you do it as hobby and have a lot of free time.
Click to expand...

Hi patnor

Thank you for the advice . I've read your thread about 100 times and with that knowledge and the video I think I'm ready for processing the 2.1kg I have they all came off wyse terminals .
I plain to take my time and if I get stuck b4 I go ahead I will ask you guys on here as you are a wealth of knowledge . I don't think I'm going to buy chips until I know that I can complete the process with results that are on par with people on this site . I'm going to document every thing and post it all when I'm finished .
im in fact using your coal and castiron pot .
Method .

Kind regards
Mitch
 
We have a coal power station near me and I was sitting at a set of lights watching this train pass and I noticed stuff falling off later that arvo it struck me and I went back to the crossing and walked up the track and 20kg free coal :D :p
 
Wise words there from Patnor, good luck Mitch, sounds like you have your head screwed on right, just be careful and work safely with the heat and chemicals. Looking forward to hearing your results.
 
kernels said:
Wise words there from Patnor, good luck Mitch, sounds like you have your head screwed on right, just be careful and work safely with the heat and chemicals. Looking forward to hearing your results.
Click to expand...


Thank you kernels I'm at the moment trying to get my fume hood built and find a cost effective filter packing to neutralise everything but if I can't find anything I'm just going ahead with out the filter . Really sorry if my terminology is wrong but as you all know I'm still very green .
I all so have PPE and respect for the chemicals I'm using so I should be safe

Kind regards
Mitch
 
jason_recliner said:
Ok, I've had a bit more of a watch of the video.

I found it painfully slow and still couldn't refrain from skipping little chunks. I don't wish to be ungracious as this gentleman has been kind enough to make a video while I have not. But I think it could be condensed to maybe a third its length.

The pyrolizing, incineration and sieving processes were covered well.

The first AR refine (AR recovery) process was explained comprehensively. But in my opinion he wastes a lot of acid. Even though briefly evaporated down to maybe 80ml or so, he ends up dropping powder from a whopping 700ml or so of solution. All that waste needs to be dealt with.

I'd have evaporated it down slightly thicker to denox, and then only added a touch of HCl based on how much it fizzes up. Not 200ml.
A few drops of sulphuric (or equiv. dash of battery acid) would be good before adding the ice. This helps precipitate lead to a solid sulphate form before the filtering. Or for that matter, it can even help denox. Refer Hoke section V.

I may have skipped over him saying this, but he obviously refined this more than once. You won't get such a shiny button (with pipe) from that single refine and simply melting the black powder it returned.

Overall, very good. He is well set up, knows what he's doing, finished with quality product, and gives good consideration to safety throughout.
Click to expand...


Thank you very much Jason for spending 1 hour of your time to watch that video just to help a fellow refiner .
He has another video about filtering through 3 coffee filters from one beaker to another x10 to get the aqua Rega a crystal clear is this what your talking about and I will use what you say just b4 I add my ice

Once again thank you

Kind regards
Mitch
 
Mitch2580 said:
jason_recliner said:
A few drops of sulphuric (or equiv. dash of battery acid) would be good before adding the ice. This helps precipitate lead to a solid sulphate form before the filtering. Or for that matter, it can even help denox. Refer Hoke section V.
Click to expand...

He has another video about filtering through 3 coffee filters from one beaker to another x10 to get the aqua Rega a crystal clear is this what your talking about and I will use what you say just b4 I add my ice
Click to expand...

No, that's not it. No matter how many filters are used, they only restrict solids. If you have lead in solution it will go right through, just like gold chloride. The presence of lead is plausible, given the source material. Sulfuric acid can force it out of solution as lead sulphate (solid).

I'll leave you to research that one further; it's scattered all over the forum. Butcher, for one, has made many detailed posts on the subject.
 
Jason

This is the process I will be following and I will practice a few times to get it down pat

g_axelsson said:
Spaceships suggested that I would copy his tutorial from the other forum...

Spaceships said:
Here's a process I have learned and modified to get the best results for denoxing AR solutions.

The process is very cheap to operate and once learned and applied correctly it will remove the hassle of denoxing, and dramatically speed up the process of refining gold.

Caveats:

1. I am assuming that all normal safety procedures are both known and followed.
2. I am assuming that the reader has a basic but working knowledge of refining gold using AR.
3. I am assuming that the reader has all the relevant equipment to carry this out.

Basic theory:

Excess Nitric acid in a AR solution that is pregnant with AuCl will prevent the gold being precipitated using your preferred method of choice (SMB, ferrous II Sulphate etc.) The plan is to remove this excess Nitric leaving a solution that is ready to cool, filter, and process in the normal way in order to add your precipitant of choice.

Effectively the use of Sulphamic acid (I am British so I spell it the British way- Americans then to know it as Sulfamic Acid) does this by converting the Nitric acid to Sulphuric Acid, Nitrous Oxide, and water.

The chemical reaction is: HNO3 + H3NSO3 → H2SO4 + N2O + H2O

That's great to know, however let's concentrate on the practical application of the process because it also has some other benefits to the process other than the removal of Nitric, but I will cover those later.

Preparation of Sulphamic Acid solution.

Prepare your Sulphamic acid as follows:

You will need a 1 litre glass beaker, a hot plate, a plastic spoon, an inert stirring rod, water, and a tub of Sulphamic acid crystals.

Add 150ml of water to the beaker, and place on the hot plate. You want this solution to be warm to hot, not boiling.
Add a couple of teaspoons of the crystals to the water, stir and let it dissolve- this will happen relatively quickly to start with.
Keep repeating this process until your solution leaves some crystals in the bottom even after plenty of stirring. Your solution is now close to being saturated. It doesn't HAVE to be this strong but experience will help you learn the required amounts.

In order to learn this properly without any risk of losing gold, I would suggest that you prepare a dummy solution of AR. Remember the purpose of the tutorial is to help you learn to denox a solution so why risk your money if it can be learned without financial risk?

Preparation of "dummy" AR.

Put 100ml of HCl in a 1 litre beaker.
Add 100ml to 150ml of water - tap water is absolutely fine for this.
Add 3ml of Nitric acid (70%) or 6ml of Nitric acid (35%) or the equivalent of "poor man's Nitric."
Put this on a hotplate (WITH A CATCH PAN) and warm up. Again you want a warm to hot solution - as if you were truly dissolving gold but no need to boil.

Once you have the two warm solutions ready then move onto the next stage.

Application of the Sulphamic Acid on the AR.

Gently add a few (and I mean literally a few) ml of the solution you made from the Sulphamic Acid and water to the AR. You will immediately see a vigorous foaming of the AR. Put your Sulphamic solution down and then stir your AR. The initial reaction WILL THEN BECOME A LOT MORE VIGOROUS.

Now, this is why I suggested that you learn using a "dummy" solution. You will possibly add too much on your first attempt and then proceed to watch with little tears of joy, as your AR solution bubbles up and foams over the sides of the beaker.

I can promise you from experience that those little tears of joy are infinitely more preferable than the tears you will cry if your solution had been pregnant. I cried those tears once - and my AR was orange at the time....

When the reaction has abated, repeat it. Then repeat it again, until you get very little reaction after addition of the Sulphamic Acid solution and stirring. At this point leave it alone for 15 minutes and go and do something else. You may have to mix another set of Sulphamic Acid solution and this is a good time to do it.

After 15 minutes, come back, add more Sulphamic Acid solution to the AR, stir and see what happens. You may almost be at the point where the Nitric has been converted by now. You need to repeat the last step until there is no reaction with the AR. At that point you are denoxed and I would leave the solution on the hotplate for 30 minutes, then cool, add ice, and do all the things you normally do.

Learn the process using "dummy" AR or even Nitric and water until you are totally comfortable before applying it to your gold pregnant AR. You will make mistakes, that's fine. You will learn from them in a "risk free" manner."

Learn the process, make a few mistakes, then get comfortable with the application of it and it will serve you well.

Now here are a couple of practical pointers for using "live" AR.

1. Don't filter your AR before denoxing. Decant it from your spent , raw product, wash your spent product down and pour the liquid into your denox glassware with the AR, and denox it "warts and all." You will filter it afterwards.
2. One by product of the process above is that the sulphuric acid produced will precipitate out any lead as lead salts so it can save you adding Sulphuric acid later to do this.

I hope this helps. If I have missed anything, or you'd like further information then please let me know.

Regards

Jon
Click to expand...

This looks like a well thought through tutorial, thanks Jon! I really like the tip of testing on a dummy AR solution as it seems boil over is a large risk when using sulfamic on hot solutions.

Any comments on this?

Göran
Click to expand...
 
Mitch,
I enjoyed your video, well done, I look forward to seeing more of your experiments.
I can see you have a fairly good understanding of the process and have been doing your homework, I can see some small details which can be improved upon. Details which will come with more experience.
Welcome to the forum, I believe you will make a good addition to the Gold Refining Forum, sharing our interest to improve our education, recovering and refining those precious metals.
 
butcher said:
Mitch,
I enjoyed your video, well done, I look forward to seeing more of your experiments.
I can see you have a fairly good understanding of the process and have been doing your homework, I can see some small details which can be improved upon. Details which will come with more experience.
Welcome to the forum, I believe you will make a good addition to the Gold Refining Forum, sharing our interest to improve our education, recovering and refining those precious metals.
Click to expand...

Butcher, its good to see you posting. Its been awhile it seems. Where have you been hiding? Enjoying some nice weather/working?
 
I have been reading the forum as often as I can.

I have been busy lately, Running a hog fuel boiler at a lumber mill, drying lumber and making electricity, until the mill shut down for lack of being able to get lumber out of our woods, which are becoming tinder boxes.
Since the lumber mill has shut down, I have been going to college to get an ASME certificate to weld on pressure vessels (boilers and steam piping), while waiting for the mill to reopen.

I do have trouble with the prerequisite classes like writing and English. I have been spending my nights doing homework in these subjects. Thanks to the forum and in particularly Harold who jumped my case about my terrible writing (my first posts on the forum) where Harold said he could not, or would not read what I wrote, Thank goodness I did not quit the forum because of a bruised ego, and spent my time on the forum trying to improve. I have worked here on the forum over the years to improve my writing, now with schooling maybe I can get more help in that area.

I have also been so busy, I have not been able to recover or refine. I have had a few moments to study some things that interest me but have had no time to any practical experiments with their chemistry (making cyanide is one I have been researching lately) I guess urea can be used for something besides fertilizing my lawn after all.

Topher_osAUrus, I have been reading you posts with interest, you and many of our other fine members have come such a long way. Isn't it wonderful we all have a place like our forum where we can all come together and share what we learn, and help each other with such a fascinating subject?
Take care my friend I have been around, I just have not had much that I can comment on. I guess it is as As Harold's signature line said "Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something."
Well, I am not that wise,I just haven't felt I had much of anything worth saying, or that can be helpful...

Take care, my friend.
 
Thats good to hear butcher. Its sad to hear about your job shutting down, but a good thing that you are a man who's always eager to learn and grow. I myself am getting ready to enroll back into college after a very long sabbatical, only science and math classes, but still a bit intimidating.

You will most certainly do well at your classes, your english and grammar has developed exponentially over your tenure at this fine forum. Your first posts very much took after your username, but became elegant and well thought out, and that growth didn't take long at all it seemed.

Im glad you are doing well, and hopefully you can try out your new studies soon. I too have been thinking of trying the eco-goldex process, but that will be a while down the road, still a great deal to learn about the subject.

Sorry this derailed the thread a bit, but to fix that-
I just got done doing some incineration of bga's and dip's. Began concentrating them today. They are a lot of work, but any recovered gold is good gold, and to me it is always worth the effort. Nothing good ever came easily.
 
butcher said:
Mitch,
I enjoyed your video, well done, I look forward to seeing more of your experiments.
I can see you have a fairly good understanding of the process and have been doing your homework, I can see some small details which can be improved upon. Details which will come with more experience.
Welcome to the forum, I believe you will make a good addition to the Gold Refining Forum, sharing our interest to improve our education, recovering and refining those precious metals.
Click to expand...

Hi butcher

I love to clam that video but it is one I found on youtube and as a new guy to all this it is one I'm using to do my processing from . With all the stuff I have learned in the GRF . I will be documenting my first attempt at recovery and refining though and will video it so that the fine people here can pull me up on any mistakes and also so maybe that some can be proud that I asked questions and read before I started and didn't put a "help just blew up the shed" post hahahahaha .

So in about 2 weeks I hope you say that about my own video :D

Kind regards
Mitch
 
DIP or dual inline package. Using "dual inline package" for a search term finds a lot of information. This was one of the first questions I ask.

Edited for clarity
 

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