Processo Epron cerâmico

[Junior2021]

hello master friends
So I started the recovery of 900g of Epron processor (ceramics).
I started like this, I broke the pottery in an industrial crusher just enough to release and separate the materials.

Separated Iron plate or korvac, central chip, plated legs.
I did it separately because I believe the recovery would be better and it actually got better.

I attacked the material with Hno3 I removed Ag first, precipitated the Ag nitrate after filtering with HCL then washed well and went to recovery in AR.

I made both recovery solutions in direct AR in 2 glasses
It gave an average of 500ml of HCL and about 20 to 30ml of hno3, (I did the nox and everything went well)

It was like this: first I covered the material with HCL and added enough hno3 with a pipette to put the metals in solution. Adding nitric just enough to not have problems with ecess. Light warm-up.

I noticed something, the most reactive metals were attacked by AR first, Fe, Cu... What I noticed was that the most reactive metals went into solutions and due to the moderate amount of hno3, the gold, being denser, was below the dissolved base metals.

I removed the liquid dissolved metals test with tin 2 came back negative.😁😆🙂
I removed the au in beautiful leaves 🤭👍🤝👍 I washed it well with hot 🔥 water and then refined it.
I made about 900g
result 10.4 g

One doubt is that the plate solution that was dissolved in AR is giving a black positive in the tin test. Will it still be Au or will it be another metal? Does anyone know if it has any metal besides Au and Ag, who knows it might have Pd👀👀👀🤔?
Photos attached.
Thank my friends.

 

[Yggdrasil]

hello master friends
So I started the recovery of 900g of Epron processor (ceramics).
I started like this, I broke the pottery in an industrial crusher just enough to release and separate the materials.

Separated Iron plate or korvac, central chip, plated legs.
I did it separately because I believe the recovery would be better and it actually got better.

I attacked the material with Hno3 I removed Ag first, precipitated the Ag nitrate after filtering with HCL then washed well and went to recovery in AR.

I made both recovery solutions in direct AR in 2 glasses
It gave an average of 500ml of HCL and about 20 to 30ml of hno3, (I did the nox and everything went well)

It was like this: first I covered the material with HCL and added enough hno3 with a pipette to put the metals in solution. Adding nitric just enough to not have problems with ecess. Light warm-up.

I noticed something, the most reactive metals were attacked by AR first, Fe, Cu... What I noticed was that the most reactive metals went into solutions and due to the moderate amount of hno3, the gold, being denser, was below the dissolved base metals.

I removed the liquid dissolved metals test with tin 2 came back negative.😁😆🙂
I removed the au in beautiful leaves 🤭👍🤝👍 I washed it well with hot 🔥 water and then refined it.
I made about 900g
result 10.4 g

One doubt is that the plate solution that was dissolved in AR is giving a black positive in the tin test. Will it still be Au or will it be another metal? Does anyone know if it has any metal besides Au and Ag, who knows it might have Pd👀👀👀🤔?
Photos attached.
Thank my friends.

When you have a black stannous test.
It may be too concentrated.
Take one drop for test dilute it with two drops water and test again.
If still black do it again.

 

[orvi]

hello master friends
So I started the recovery of 900g of Epron processor (ceramics).
I started like this, I broke the pottery in an industrial crusher just enough to release and separate the materials.

Separated Iron plate or korvac, central chip, plated legs.
I did it separately because I believe the recovery would be better and it actually got better.

I attacked the material with Hno3 I removed Ag first, precipitated the Ag nitrate after filtering with HCL then washed well and went to recovery in AR.

I made both recovery solutions in direct AR in 2 glasses
It gave an average of 500ml of HCL and about 20 to 30ml of hno3, (I did the nox and everything went well)

It was like this: first I covered the material with HCL and added enough hno3 with a pipette to put the metals in solution. Adding nitric just enough to not have problems with ecess. Light warm-up.

I noticed something, the most reactive metals were attacked by AR first, Fe, Cu... What I noticed was that the most reactive metals went into solutions and due to the moderate amount of hno3, the gold, being denser, was below the dissolved base metals.

I removed the liquid dissolved metals test with tin 2 came back negative.😁😆🙂
I removed the au in beautiful leaves 🤭👍🤝👍 I washed it well with hot 🔥 water and then refined it.
I made about 900g
result 10.4 g

One doubt is that the plate solution that was dissolved in AR is giving a black positive in the tin test. Will it still be Au or will it be another metal? Does anyone know if it has any metal besides Au and Ag, who knows it might have Pd👀👀👀🤔?
Photos attached.
Thank my friends.

Nice job friend

This material is on the top of my "pleasant" materials Highest ratio of gold to metals needed to dissolve. Smaller the ceramic chips, better the recovery, as there is less dead weight of ceramic.

You do not need to fear that your recovery would be impaired if you do the lids and ceramics together. Inside the ceramics, there is no gold to be found, and adsorption of gold onto the ceramics is practically non existent. Only trouble could be silver pads on the ceramics, where legs are soldered to the ceramic body. But with enough heating and time, silver will also react and form silver chloride, which could be subsequentially filtered out.

Take enough time, that acid will eat the gold braze underneath the silicon chip. Breaking these to few pieces is beneficial - mainly if you break the silicon die inside, so acid need to eat less distance under that chip - which is the slowest process But if time is not your concern, you can do them by just dumping whole unbroken chips straight into the AR and let it heat for several days - or just let it sit as is. Eventually everything will dissolve.

When you start to do bigger quantities of various materials, you want to save your precious time as much as possible. One thing which could help you is not dividing your batches to fractions and doing everything at once Take less steps procedures, minimize fractioning, save the final gold purification to big lot and do not purify every batch you do etc...

PS: black stannous test is just very concentrated gold positive, as Yggdrasil correctly pointed out. I always like to see it

 

[Junior2021]

Nice job friend

This material is on the top of my "pleasant" materials Highest ratio of gold to metals needed to dissolve. Smaller the ceramic chips, better the recovery, as there is less dead weight of ceramic.

You do not need to fear that your recovery would be impaired if you do the lids and ceramics together. Inside the ceramics, there is no gold to be found, and adsorption of gold onto the ceramics is practically non existent. Only trouble could be silver pads on the ceramics, where legs are soldered to the ceramic body. But with enough heating and time, silver will also react and form silver chloride, which could be subsequentially filtered out.

Take enough time, that acid will eat the gold braze underneath the silicon chip. Breaking these to few pieces is beneficial - mainly if you break the silicon die inside, so acid need to eat less distance under that chip - which is the slowest process But if time is not your concern, you can do them by just dumping whole unbroken chips straight into the AR and let it heat for several days - or just let it sit as is. Eventually everything will dissolve.

When you start to do bigger quantities of various materials, you want to save your precious time as much as possible. One thing which could help you is not dividing your batches to fractions and doing everything at once Take less steps procedures, minimize fractioning, save the final gold purification to big lot and do not purify every batch you do etc...

PS: black stannous test is just very concentrated gold positive, as Yggdrasil correctly pointed out. I always like to see it

Nice job friend

This material is on the top of my "pleasant" materials Highest ratio of gold to metals needed to dissolve. Smaller the ceramic chips, better the recovery, as there is less dead weight of ceramic.

You do not need to fear that your recovery would be impaired if you do the lids and ceramics together. Inside the ceramics, there is no gold to be found, and adsorption of gold onto the ceramics is practically non existent. Only trouble could be silver pads on the ceramics, where legs are soldered to the ceramic body. But with enough heating and time, silver will also react and form silver chloride, which could be subsequentially filtered out.

Take enough time, that acid will eat the gold braze underneath the silicon chip. Breaking these to few pieces is beneficial - mainly if you break the silicon die inside, so acid need to eat less distance under that chip - which is the slowest process But if time is not your concern, you can do them by just dumping whole unbroken chips straight into the AR and let it heat for several days - or just let it sit as is. Eventually everything will dissolve.

When you start to do bigger quantities of various materials, you want to save your precious time as much as possible. One thing which could help you is not dividing your batches to fractions and doing everything at once Take less steps procedures, minimize fractioning, save the final gold purification to big lot and do not purify every batch you do etc...

PS: black stannous test is just very concentrated gold positive, as Yggdrasil correctly pointed out. I always like to see it

Thank you master, for your help I am grateful for all the learning 🙏🙏🙏

I looked into your transistor recovery a while back. And I found that direct AR would be feasible.

Next time I will not share the recovery of this type of material or similar
thank you master.

I just have to thank all the masters at Forum GRF, for learning from the best. 🇧🇷

 

[Junior2021]

When you have a black stannous test.
It may be too concentrated.
Take one drop for test dilute it with two drops water and test again.
If still black do it again.

Thank you master, I will dilute the amount and see if it continues to give black in the solution. If the color change occurs, I will try to drop this material. 😁🤩😁🙏

 

[orvi]

Thank you master, for your help I am grateful for all the learning 🙏🙏🙏

I looked into your transistor recovery a while back. And I found that direct AR would be feasible.

Next time I will not share the recovery of this type of material or similar
thank you master.

I just have to thank all the masters at Forum GRF, for learning from the best. 🇧🇷

We would be grateful for any recovery posted here. Professionally, I am organic chemist doing my PhD. and in my eyes, every procedure is beneficial for others (maybe my vision is bit more focused on performing everything diligently and as it supposed to be teachers professional deformation ). Many folks do not know how would the material behave, how it looks like, what was done precisely etc... So any detailed procedure, with photos included, pointed details about colors, fumes released, unexpected things happening... That all comes together, and without details and info about slight nuances from that refining venture - picture is not complete

When I intend to post some procedure here, I try to include all details, and explain what I am doing - best I can. So anyone can look to what I have done, learn from it step by step. This is why I also include my mistakes during that refining - what I done and does not came very well etc. And also whole path to how I solved my problems. This is probably the most important part Everyone just like to look to dried gold powder or shiny melted bead, but path leading to it is much more important in my opinion.
So feel free to post any refining ventures you like, that is also a way how others could comment on your findings, yields, procedures and other things - and in the end improve your processes to be easier, safer, more efficient and better

 

[Junior2021]

We would be grateful for any recovery posted here. Professionally, I am organic chemist doing my PhD. and in my eyes, every procedure is beneficial for others (maybe my vision is bit more focused on performing everything diligently and as it supposed to be teachers professional deformation ). Many folks do not know how would the material behave, how it looks like, what was done precisely etc... So any detailed procedure, with photos included, pointed details about colors, fumes released, unexpected things happening... That all comes together, and without details and info about slight nuances from that refining venture - picture is not complete

When I intend to post some procedure here, I try to include all details, and explain what I am doing - best I can. So anyone can look to what I have done, learn from it step by step. This is why I also include my mistakes during that refining - what I done and does not came very well etc. And also whole path to how I solved my problems. This is probably the most important part Everyone just like to look to dried gold powder or shiny melted bead, but path leading to it is much more important in my opinion.
So feel free to post any refining ventures you like, that is also a way how others could comment on your findings, yields, procedures and other things - and in the end improve your processes to be easier, safer, more efficient and better

Thank you master for the guidance 🌻

Sorry I took so long to respond,

Detailing the recovery and refining is fundamental so that we can correct possible errors and receive opinions from knowledgeable people like you and the other masters.

Safety first always.

I try to deepen my knowledge and learn more and more. Before doing any metal recovery

Seek guidance in chemistry literature and search the Forum.

I would like please guidance on palladium recovery reading. I want to start studying 🤔. I know the importance of staying safe.
and I'm only going to mess with Pd when I'm getting to know it well.

I want to go further, I want to understand how chemical reactions happen.

I want to learn more, I have a thirst for knowledge related to chemistry.🤔🧐😉

Knowledge is priceless.
🇧🇷

After I joined the Forum everything has been working 🙏🙏🙏🙂

 

[orvi]

Thank you master for the guidance 🌻

Sorry I took so long to respond,

Detailing the recovery and refining is fundamental so that we can correct possible errors and receive opinions from knowledgeable people like you and the other masters.

Safety first always.

I try to deepen my knowledge and learn more and more. Before doing any metal recovery

Seek guidance in chemistry literature and search the Forum.

I would like please guidance on palladium recovery reading. I want to start studying 🤔. I know the importance of staying safe.
and I'm only going to mess with Pd when I'm getting to know it well.

I want to go further, I want to understand how chemical reactions happen.

I want to learn more, I have a thirst for knowledge related to chemistry.🤔🧐😉

Knowledge is priceless.
🇧🇷

After I joined the Forum everything has been working 🙏🙏🙏🙂

PGMs in general are whole another level of refining. With gold and silver, we have procedures that assure basically full, traceless recovery (eg AgCl precipitation and gold drop with SMB or ferrous sulfate). But with PGMs things become more complex - literally As they tend to form complexes in solution, reactions are often much slower and many times not definite = meaning that some PGMs are still left behind.

Palladium is probably easiest to refine PGM. Most of the times in e-scrap material, Pd is found alongside silver and copper. And this separation is not that difficult. When you have material that contains two or more PGMs, things get more complicated.

It would be good to know what type of material you have, then we can further elaborate proper approach to refining. Apart from being more difficult to extract, PGMs are also toxic as salts. Metals are completely fine, but PGM compunds are potent allergens and senzibilizers - research platinosis. Mainly platinum is very nasty in form of chlorocompounds. So proper safety equipment is always needed, as good fumehood, gloves and even in some occasions respirator is also very good to not breath in any dust or aerosols - it is discussed here on the forum numerous times, just use search bar and learn

For start, I add here link to one of my refinings, of AgPd contact points - very pleasant and easy to work with material. Procedure disclose formate reduction of the palladium, after removing the silver as silver chloride. This is most basic scenario in my eyes, other palladium materials such as MLCCs and other are much more difficult to process

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/agpd-contacts-refining.31589/

 

[Junior2021]

Thank you master

I will follow the link of your PGM process that you sent and study hard. And when I'm ready I'm going to do my first pgms rehearsal 😉😁🤩

Yes I have read that pgms salts are very complex indeed. And the need to have a hood for toxic gases, gloves, a respirator mask because of pgm salts and toxic gases, to do it as safely as possible.

Teacher
There are some materials that I am investigating, they are capacitors, transistors, they are from a very special old navy ship board, they have Ag contacts on the ends and inside the capacitors. I'll show you.

PGMs in general are whole another level of refining. With gold and silver, we have procedures that assure basically full, traceless recovery (eg AgCl precipitation and gold drop with SMB or ferrous sulfate). But with PGMs things become more complex - literally As they tend to form complexes in solution, reactions are often much slower and many times not definite = meaning that some PGMs are still left behind.

Palladium is probably easiest to refine PGM. Most of the times in e-scrap material, Pd is found alongside silver and copper. And this separation is not that difficult. When you have material that contains two or more PGMs, things get more complicated.

It would be good to know what type of material you have, then we can further elaborate proper approach to refining. Apart from being more difficult to extract, PGMs are also toxic as salts. Metals are completely fine, but PGM compunds are potent allergens and senzibilizers - research platinosis. Mainly platinum is very nasty in form of chlorocompounds. So proper safety equipment is always needed, as good fumehood, gloves and even in some occasions respirator is also very good to not breath in any dust or aerosols - it is discussed here on the forum numerous times, just use search bar and learn

For start, I add here link to one of my refinings, of AgPd contact points - very pleasant and easy to work with material. Procedure disclose formate reduction of the palladium, after removing the silver as silver chloride. This is most basic scenario in my eyes, other palladium materials such as MLCCs and other are much more difficult to process

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/agpd-contacts-refining.31589/

Thank you master I will follow the link of your PGM process that you sent and study hard. And when I'm ready I'm going to do my first pgms rehearsal 😉😁🤩 Yes I have read that pgms salts are very complex indeed. And the need to have a hood for toxic gases, gloves, a respirator mask because of pgm salts and toxic gases, to do it as safely as possible. Teacher There are some materials that I am investigating, they are capacitors, transistors, they are from a very special old navy ship board, they have Ag contacts on the ends and inside the capacitors. I'll show you.

Thank you for starting the study, I will follow the learning process step by step.

Thanks l🧐🌻🤝

 

[Junior2021]

Thank you master

I will follow the link of your PGM process that you sent and study hard. And when I'm ready I'm going to do my first pgms rehearsal 😉😁🤩

Yes I have read that pgms salts are very complex indeed. And the need to have a hood for toxic gases, gloves, a respirator mask because of pgm salts and toxic gases, to do it as safely as possible.

Teacher
There are some materials that I am investigating, they are capacitors, transistors, they are from a very special old navy ship board, they have Ag contacts on the ends and inside the capacitors. I'll show you.

Thank you master I will follow the link of your PGM process that you sent and study hard. And when I'm ready I'm going to do my first pgms rehearsal 😉😁🤩 Yes I have read that pgms salts are very complex indeed. And the need to have a hood for toxic gases, gloves, a respirator mask because of pgm salts and toxic gases, to do it as safely as possible. Teacher There are some materials that I am investigating, they are capacitors, transistors, they are from a very special old navy ship board, they have Ag contacts on the ends and inside the capacitors. I'll show you.

Thank you for starting the study, I will follow the learning process step by step.

Thanks l🧐🌻🤝

 

[Junior2021]

Good morning Master

In the glass, the silver chloride is from green capacitors that have been ignited very carefully, in a very ventilated area, crushed, and leached in hno3 for a few hours, filtered and decided the silver chloride with HCL. I believe there may be some pgm in these capacitors.

Thanks 👍🤝👍.

 

[orvi]

Good morning Master

In the glass, the silver chloride is from green capacitors that have been ignited very carefully, in a very ventilated area, crushed, and leached in hno3 for a few hours, filtered and decided the silver chloride with HCL. I believe there may be some pgm in these capacitors.

Thanks 👍🤝👍.

Firstly, learn how to test for most abundant PGMs - platinum and palladium. These two can be found most often, third metal to be occasionally found is rhodium. Pt and Pd can be both tested with SnCl2 test - Pt giving intense orange colour and Pd giving deep green, in high concentration almost black colour. For Pd, there is one very accurate test - DMG test. If you add dimethylglyoxime solution to the solution containing dissolved Pd, it forms nice cannary yellow voluminous precipitate. This test is very sensitive and works only for Pd - if the pH of solution is lower than 2-3.

After successfully getting familiar with testing of Pt and Pd, you can start to analyze the scrap you have. Pulverize small sample of material, or dissolve the component in nitric acid or AR and then test. Be sure you drop all of the silver before testing with SnCl2 - as silver chloride will form upon contact with silver solution and skew the result.
From the pictures, there are two obvious possibilities for PGMs presence - MLCCs and wire resistors.

Some specialty wire resistors could be made from PGM alloys - espetially the resistance wire. It is sometimes seen in old Soviet components, mainly potentiometers. First test is to find out if it is magnetic. If yes, you can probably trash it. If non-magnetic, try to apply nitric acid alone. If it does dissolve and produce dirty-green or any sort of red/orange solution - there is high probability that it actually contain palladium. If it does not dissolve in nitric, proceed with AR and then analyze the colour as previously and test with stannous chloride.

MLCCs are tested similarly - crush one or two pieces to grain size of sand and cover with nitric acid. If you see any signs of red colouration, there is very high chance these are palladium containing. If there is reaction and only copper coloured liquid is obtained, decant the barren liquid, wash with water and apply AR - now, if the colour of the solution is orange in colour - you can possibly have Pt MLCCs. But these are rare - apart from old Soviet MLCCs, I do not know any other ones containing Pt.

 

[Junior2021]

Firstly, learn how to test for most abundant PGMs - platinum and palladium. These two can be found most often, third metal to be occasionally found is rhodium. Pt and Pd can be both tested with SnCl2 test - Pt giving intense orange colour and Pd giving deep green, in high concentration almost black colour. For Pd, there is one very accurate test - DMG test. If you add dimethylglyoxime solution to the solution containing dissolved Pd, it forms nice cannary yellow voluminous precipitate. This test is very sensitive and works only for Pd - if the pH of solution is lower than 2-3.

After successfully getting familiar with testing of Pt and Pd, you can start to analyze the scrap you have. Pulverize small sample of material, or dissolve the component in nitric acid or AR and then test. Be sure you drop all of the silver before testing with SnCl2 - as silver chloride will form upon contact with silver solution and skew the result.
From the pictures, there are two obvious possibilities for PGMs presence - MLCCs and wire resistors.

Some specialty wire resistors could be made from PGM alloys - espetially the resistance wire. It is sometimes seen in old Soviet components, mainly potentiometers. First test is to find out if it is magnetic. If yes, you can probably trash it. If non-magnetic, try to apply nitric acid alone. If it does dissolve and produce dirty-green or any sort of red/orange solution - there is high probability that it actually contain palladium. If it does not dissolve in nitric, proceed with AR and then analyze the colour as previously and test with stannous chloride.

MLCCs are tested similarly - crush one or two pieces to grain size of sand and cover with nitric acid. If you see any signs of red colouration, there is very high chance these are palladium containing. If there is reaction and only copper coloured liquid is obtained, decant the barren liquid, wash with water and apply AR - now, if the colour of the solution is orange in colour - you can possibly have Pt MLCCs. But these are rare - apart from old Soviet MLCCs, I do not know any other ones containing Pt.

thank you very much master

Thanks for the guidance, I understood well, the majority of MLCCs I have are magnetic, I believe they do not have PGMs,

the transistors, resistors, capacitors are from military materials
they are not magnetic and have contacts in the extreme parts that can be made of Ag and other PGMs. I will investigate how you taught.

Thank you for teaching me about potentiometers as I will look for the oldest ones possible and test all that are not magnetic .

As soon as I start the PGMs tests, I'll let you know the results.👍🤝👍🌻

I didn't know that tests of PGMs with DMG give better results with PH between 2 and 3 are accurate information.👍🤝👍

How do you use DMG it doesn't dilute easily, what would be the best way to use it, dilute it or not dilute it?

Thank you for all teachings 👍🤝👍🤩