Pyrolyzing chips

[bswartzwelder]

Hi All,

I have a couple of gallon jars filled with CPU's, memory, North Bridge and South Bridge chips and quite an array of other black chips. I would like to build a device to allow me to reduce them easily and cheaply to the gray white ash that Patnor has demonstrated. Where I live, I don't have a ready source of coal, so my fuel of choice will be charcoal. To boost the output temperature, I plan to introduce extra air. Below, are my thoughts. Any criticism or ideas are welcome. I love to build things.

Every time I'm near a garage sale, flea market, or second hand store, I always look for cheap coffee makers with a lid that opens exposing the filter area, blow dryers, and Corningware dishes. I plan to make this device as a two piece unit. The bottom will house the firebox, the top will hold the Corningware dish. The Corningware dishes I have are approximately 3 inches deep and 7 inches square.

The entire unit will be constructed out of 1/4 inch steel plate and welded together. The top, since this will be the easiest, will be a 1/4 inch thick steel box (with an open top) just slightly larger than the dish but not as tall. The dish will sit down into it with the handles exposed above the rim. Onto the bottom, I'll weld some 1/4 inch by 1.25 inch steel rectangular bars oriented on end. They will all be parallel and will extend past the sides of the upper box. Their purposes are to put a space between the upper box and the bottom of the unit to provide a solid base which will rest on the bottom. As an added benefit, they will divert the hot gasses out to the left and right away from the person operating the unit. Should the Corningware dish break, everything will be contained within the steel box.

The bottom (combustion chamber) will be constructed slightly larger in outside dimensions than the top unit. This will allow me to line the inside of the lower unit with some form of refractory material or fire bricks. I will drill two holes on opposing sides near the bottom to allow the air manifold to pass through. It is very easy to cut, drill and sand firebricks so this makes the job a simple one. The air manifold will consist of two pieces of pipe with a series of small holes drilled into them. There will be two rows of holes on each pipe. One row facing straight up and the other rows slanted slightly towards the center of the combustion chamber. Outside of the combustion chamber, on one end, the pipes will be joined to a single inlet pipe. The opposite ends will be capped off. The single inlet pipe will be large enough to allow a blow dryer nozzle to fit inside. The entire combustion chamber will sit on three legs long enough to allow air circulation under the unit and make fitting up the blow dryer easy. I am not certain of the height of the unit, but it will determine the amount of charcoal which can be used. Two handles will be added to facilitate carrying the lower unit WHEN COOL.

I have built a small forge from a 20 pound propane cylinder based on this design and can verify I have heated a 1/4 inch by 3 inch wide steel bar to a bright red temperature after only a few minutes of sitting on the open top of the unit. My idea is to pyrolize chips not boil off the gold inside of them. Comments?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

bswartzwelder,

If I understand your description correctly, you're not building a pyrolyzer.

The top, since this will be the easiest, will be a 1/4 inch thick steel box (with an open top) just slightly larger than the dish but not as tall. The dish will sit down into it with the handles exposed above the rim.

Pyrolysis takes place when there is little or no oxygen present when the material is heated. With an open top, oxygen will join the reaction and you will be incinerating instead of pyrolyzing. This will allow large quantities of toxic gasses to escape into the atmosphere.

To be environmentaly responsible, the chips should first be pyrolyzed, then incinerated. When you pyrolyze the chips you will drive off the volatile compounds in the various epoxies and plastics, leaving you with metals and carbonaceous materials. When you incinerate the remains in open air, you will further break down the carbonaceous compounds with the aid of oxygen.

To pyrolyze the material, your upper box should have a tight fitting lid to exclude additional air from entering the box during the first phase, but with a small opening or tube to allow the heated gasses to escape the box. This still creates the toxic gasses, but since the box is sealed, you have control over them. These gasses should then be burned to decompose them into less harmful components. This can be accomplished by directing the gasses, via the tube, back down into your lower box and into the fire which will act as somewhat of an afterburner.

Once the material has been pyrolyzed, the box can be opened to allow oxygen to enter to complete the incineration of the carbonaceous materials that remain.

Do a search for pyrolysis by author NoIdea. Deano is our resident expert on pyrolysis, and has made numerous excellent posts on the subject. He has drawn up some very useful diagrams to illustrate his designs.

Dave

 

[bswartzwelder]

Making an almost airtight lid would pose some problems. Having said that, it might not be too difficult to make a fairly tight lid and reburn the fumes. The inlet to the blow dryer could actually help suck the escaping fumes for reburning. Otherwise, looks like another idea goes down the drain. Thank you.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

A tight lid is better than no lid. A home built unit will probably never eliminate 100% of the fumes. Minimizing them is the goal. No reason to abandon the idea, just tweak it a bit.

Dave

 

[goldsilverpro]

Be careful. If the off gases are hot and well-confined and are allowed to mix with oxygen, an explosion can occur. I've seen it happen.

 

[mls26cwru]

Making an almost airtight lid would pose some problems. Having said that, it might not be too difficult to make a fairly tight lid and reburn the fumes. The inlet to the blow dryer could actually help suck the escaping fumes for reburning. Otherwise, looks like another idea goes down the drain. Thank you.

i don't think there is a need to 'suck' the fumes out... in fact that might be extremely dangerous. the pressure of the gasses evolving will create a positive pressure in the unit and 'push' the gas out the exhaust line.

if you suck the fumes out you have two problems... first the gases are going to be VERY hot so what ever you use will have to withstand the high temperature. Second, and more importantly, if you create a negative pressure in the unit, this could suck oxygen into the unit anywhere it is not air tight... and mixing oxygen with extremely hot and volatile gasses is never good. just my two cents.

 

[mls26cwru]

Be careful. If the off gases are hot and well-confined and are allowed to mix with oxygen, an explosion can occur. I've seen it happen.

Damn it GSP! you beat me to it!

 

[bswartzwelder]

OK, THANKS. The idea is not dead, just back to the research phase. I assume the small size of my device will mean that the off gasses produced will not be in a huge billowing cloud. Using a blow dryer poses one problem, that being it has no real speed control. That was a problem with my little forge, but I got around it by cycling the blow dryer on and off. I am going to see if I can adjust the speed with a light dimmer. If not, I have a rather bulky Variac which should do the trick. I do not plan to use the heating element in the blow dryer, only the fan, so the current drawn will be minimal.

If I make a lid which covers everything (upper box and Corningware dish), I can mount it such that screws will hold it relatively tightly when in use. Next, drill a hole in the center of the lid and weld some piping to it. Have the piping extend down to near the bottom of the combustion chamber. The natural suction (chimney effect) of the burning charcoal should suck the fumes into the combustion chamber where they will be drawn up through the burning charcoal. Once the fire is hot enough to pyrolyze the chips, it should be hot enough to act like an afterburner for the toxic gasses. When the gasses are no longer produced, I could remove the lid and continue with incinerating. I hope this sounds better.

 

[goldsilverpro]

https://www.google.com/search?q=pyrolysis+oxygen+explosion&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

 

[bswartzwelder]

Thank you, GSP. The only oxygen available will be what gets sucked into or forced by the fan into the combustion chamber. I will not add any additional O2 to the chips being pyrolyzed. With the unit up and running, the off gasses will be reintroduced into the combustion chamber in a slow, stream. I wouldn't think there would be an accumulation. Also, the top of the combustion chamber is open to the atmosphere with the heat escaping through the slots made by the .25 inch by 1.25 inch rectangular steel bars standing on end. Since the top is essentially open, there shouldn't be any way for pressure to build up.

 

[bswartzwelder]

I have started purchasing parts to fabricate my pyrolyzer/incinerator. I was able to purchase fire bricks at a local True Value store. Now I have a basis for the dimensions when building the combustion chamber. I already had 2 1.5 quart square Corningware dishes without lids, so I now have a basis for the top chamber as well. Now, a tablet of graph paper, ruler, and calculator will let me get serious.

I DO NOT want to MINIMIZE the importance of dealing with the toxic fumes given off. But after seeing a couple of specials on TV this afternoon dealing with live volcanoes, the amount of toxic gasses produced by EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM combined in 1 year would be less than that produced by mother nature in five minutes (probably less than 1 minute) of volcanic eruption. I agree it would be irresponsible not to make an honest effort to control these fumes, so please don't get the wrong impression. However, in the larger scheme of things, anything WE produce would be totally insignificant by comparison. As I build my pyrolyzer/incinerator, I plan to take photos to show the design.

 

[JHS]

http://goldrefiningforum.com/~goldrefi/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=6156

 

[bswartzwelder]

The pyrolyzer/incinerator has hit a snag. I spent quite a few hours calculating the sizes of steel plates and other items needed and put everything into a Microsoft Word file. I was going to fax the parts list to my steel supplier in a couple of days, but before I could do that, my computer was infected with a virus. It doesn't appear the shop where I took it was able to salvage any of my files. In fact, the computer is in worse shape now than it was when they got it. If I can get my files back, I'll order parts and get restarted. If not, it's back to the drawing board. I'll post puictures if/when they become available.

 

[chlaurite]

I posted a rough schematic for a two-phase pyrolyzer/incinerator a while back, but still haven't built it. Honestly, I think NoIdea's design seems the most fool-proof in its straight-forwardness: Minus the whole refractory chimney part of it, you take a steel can, fill it with chips, seal it (fold-and-crimp should suffice), and poke a tiny hole in the bottom. Toss it in a good hot fire (hole-side down). Escaping gasses burn up nicely, no oxygen gets to the chips, you end up with chip-shaped-coke plus metals.

That takes care of the actual pyrolysis. For the incineration phase, you can more-or-less safely do that in open-air, since it won't out-gas all the really really nasty chemicals you already got rid of via pyrolysis.

 

[bswartzwelder]

I really like the simplicity of that idea. Unfortunately, I live in a development where it would be next to impossible for me to build a fire. A small pyrolyzer which I can roll in and out of my garage on casters will fit the bill nicely. My closest neighbors are gone most of the time, so if I didn't want to be environmentally responsible, I could probably pull it off. That's not my way, so I'll either redesign my unit or wait until I hear from Office Depot.

I took in my computer with a virus. It would boot up in safe mode. First charge was $157 for diagnostics and repair. They told me the operating system had been corrupted and needed an/the original installation disk. Another $130 on eBay to get new installation disk. Computer had a RAID array with two hard drives (mirror image of each other). They separated the hard drives and put one away while they tried to repair the Windows installation on the other hard drive. Told me it appeared Windows had been reinstalled on the second hard drive. Next, they told me the BIOS in the computer appears to be bad because the computer will go through the POST but cannot find the one hard drive connected to it. They cannot do anything else to fix it. Told me they could get all my data files off the second hard drive, but I had to buy a 1 terabyte external hard drive (Cost for everything to backup $130). Picked up everything and went home. I had a brand new computer sitting in the box for 1.5 years and finally decided to set it up. Got it set up and connected the external hard drive. NO FILES backed up to it. Took external hard drive and computer back yesterday and they admitted it had no files on it. At 3:30, they said it would take a couple of hours to back up ALL the files on the old hard drive. Once again, I expected a call yesterday evening to pick them up, but the call never came. Today, I'll pay them a visit. They have been working on this problem since July 8 and it's still not resolved.

 

[bswartzwelder]

I really like the simplicity of that idea. Unfortunately, I live in a development where it would be next to impossible for me to build a fire. A small pyrolyzer which I can roll in and out of my garage on casters will fit the bill nicely. My closest neighbors are gone most of the time, so if I didn't want to be environmentally responsible, I could probably pull it off. That's not my way, so I'll either redesign my unit or wait until I hear from Office Depot.

I took in my computer with a virus. It would boot up in safe mode. First charge was $157 for diagnostics and repair. They told me the operating system had been corrupted and needed an/the original installation disk. Another $130 on eBay to get new installation disk. Computer had a RAID array with two hard drives (mirror image of each other). They separated the hard drives and put one away while they tried to repair the Windows installation on the other hard drive. Told me it appeared Windows had been reinstalled on the second hard drive. Next, they told me the BIOS in the computer appears to be bad because the computer will go through the POST but cannot find the one hard drive connected to it. They cannot do anything else to fix it. Told me they could get all my data files off the second hard drive, but I had to buy a 1 terabyte external hard drive (Cost for everything to backup $130). Picked up everything and went home. I had a brand new computer sitting in the box for 1.5 years and finally decided to set it up. Got it set up and connected the external hard drive. NO FILES backed up to it. Took external hard drive and computer back yesterday and they admitted it had no files on it. At 3:30, they said it would take a couple of hours to back up ALL the files on the old hard drive. Once again, I expected a call yesterday evening to pick them up, but the call never came. Today, I'll pay them a visit. They have been working on this problem since July 8 and it's still not resolved.

 

[jimdoc]

I really like the simplicity of that idea. Unfortunately, I live in a development where it would be next to impossible for me to build a fire. A small pyrolyzer which I can roll in and out of my garage on casters will fit the bill nicely. My closest neighbors are gone most of the time, so if I didn't want to be environmentally responsible, I could probably pull it off. That's not my way, so I'll either redesign my unit or wait until I hear from Office Depot.

I took in my computer with a virus. It would boot up in safe mode. First charge was $157 for diagnostics and repair. They told me the operating system had been corrupted and needed an/the original installation disk. Another $130 on eBay to get new installation disk. Computer had a RAID array with two hard drives (mirror image of each other). They separated the hard drives and put one away while they tried to repair the Windows installation on the other hard drive. Told me it appeared Windows had been reinstalled on the second hard drive. Next, they told me the BIOS in the computer appears to be bad because the computer will go through the POST but cannot find the one hard drive connected to it. They cannot do anything else to fix it. Told me they could get all my data files off the second hard drive, but I had to buy a 1 terabyte external hard drive (Cost for everything to backup $130). Picked up everything and went home. I had a brand new computer sitting in the box for 1.5 years and finally decided to set it up. Got it set up and connected the external hard drive. NO FILES backed up to it. Took external hard drive and computer back yesterday and they admitted it had no files on it. At 3:30, they said it would take a couple of hours to back up ALL the files on the old hard drive. Once again, I expected a call yesterday evening to pick them up, but the call never came. Today, I'll pay them a visit. They have been working on this problem since July 8 and it's still not resolved.

You should look into Ubuntu, Linux Mint, or some other Linux operating system.

Jim

 

[chlaurite]

Totally irrelevant aside, but for Windows, you pay for the license. Microsoft doesn't care in the least about owning a copy of the installation media (and businesses usually don't even buy the media, they just pay by the purely-virtual license).

If you can borrow an installation disc (for the same version, so "win 7 home" needs a "win 7 home" disc) from someone, just use the key on the sticker on your PC's case and you can legally reinstall it without paying into the "with media" scam. FWIW, the repair shop knows that, but honestly, I can't blame them for the fee because it will take a good amount of (admittedly unattended) time to do.

 

[bswartzwelder]

I returned my computer and the external hard drive to Office Depot. The hard drives were mounted in a removable cage so they just took out the one which had never been changed by trying to reinstall XP Pro. Then, they hooked the external hard drive and the old hard drive (in an adapter module) to a laptop and tried to start a backup. Something wasn't working and the tech put his finger on the hard drive. There was no vibration, so it wasn't running. A little troubleshooting revealed a power cord connector to the module wasn't making good contact. After jiggling it around, the drive came to life. He did delete all the factory installed software on the external hard drive (I guess to make it less confusing for me), and then started the file transfer. Said it would take a while maybe 2 to 3 hours (that was 3:30 PM) on Tuesday and that he would call me when it was finished. Got the call on Wednesday at 10:11 AM. So much for 2 to 3 hours. He backed up EVERY file on the hard drive, which is all I ever really wanted in the first place. I had to purchase Microsoft Office, but I did that when I originally purchased the new computer. Since I got everything back, I moved my old "Favorites" to the new computer and many of the Microsoft Word documents. I have made several hard copies of the parts needed for my pyrolyzer design and plan on ordering steel later today. I would like to be locked (with my Glock 45) in a room with the people who make these malicious programs.

If anyone else ever sees "System Care Antivirus" come up on their monitor, shut down the computer immediately. Then restart the computer (in safe mode) and select you want to start with the last known good installation, or an installation which is a week or 2 old. I heard this from 2 people. From there, you can easily get rid of the virus. I hope nobody ever has to do this, but the virus is an old one making a fresh comeback.

Now, back to my pyrolyzer. Thanks to everyone who offered assistance.

Bert

 

[Pantherlikher]

Just a quick note...
We all work with computers of some type. Alot of us know alot about them as well...I for 1 have installed a virus or 2 just to see how they work and how to remove them...
Before the major $$$ waste by taking to a "pro" which is only someone you pay to screw up.... Ask...Simply ask.

Take infected drive out, take an old PC with windows and antivirus. Plug infected drive in and run a scan/clean on the infected. After that, copy all wanted/needed files. Then preplace drive in PC and see if windows survived the attack...

"Backing up" of a hard drive entails copying everything...virus included...
I often plug a drive in and see what's on it. I like finding funny pictures but everything gets destroyed after that. You would be suprised at how personal information gets stolen when you don't destroy it yourself...

B.S.
...It is illogical to think most people can think logically as a computer does...