Recovering gold from gold fingers

[icejj]

In many countries, the "DIY" recycling business at some random garage on outskirts of town is on boarderline of barely legal/illegal activity. And so is managing e-waste without license. So the material isn´t flowing that much from official facilities, but from private business, where owners are more prone to go against the rules and sell some stuff to practically anybody who pay better price. For him, the stuff is free, so any extra buck which is worth the risk of doing such a thing is good for him.

As individual without the help of e-waste collecting facilities, you will need very very large net of "sub-contractors" to fill your crates with good stuff. It requires quite a lot of labor as you say to manually cherrypick the good stuff from big piles of e-waste at some facility. And even more work as you say for preparing the stuff (like trimming fingers, removing chips or BGAs).

You are right on the point, that for large scale well-tuned process, the manual sorting and cherrypicking/preparation is not needed, as the furnance and shredder will do a great job on practically any material thrown in. But for the small guy, who want to refine the stuff, this is beyond doable in the backyard. So he must be willing to accept higher price and pay the "unnecessary" work just for the possibility to proceed with his simple route.
If its worth it, depend on the point of wiew.

Based on what you said and what Neiks neims said, some things that I have experienced so far (although I've only had a few experiences trying to buy this stuff) are starting to make sense.

 

[AMS-Pro]

Sure, there is a place for "cherry picking" and finger, chip and CPU small scale recovery, but it is more of a niche opportunity, a side venue of larger e-waste stream.

This is very true. Especially when getting regular shipments in, and is something I do personally. In my instance, most of the material that comes in has to be shredded, however, I do get smaller loads, or am allowed from the source to pull some pieces for my personal stockpile before the rest goes in the shredding equipment. The smaller loads that come in get the best stuff sorted out, and added to the personal stockpile, the rest goes to various board buyers, as I'm not usually required by those sources to shred.

As individual without the help of e-waste collecting facilities, you will need very very large net of "sub-contractors" to fill your crates with good stuff. It requires quite a lot of labor as you say to manually cherrypick the good stuff from big piles of e-waste at some facility. And even more work as you say for preparing the stuff (like trimming fingers, removing chips or BGAs).

This is a very good point made as well. The original poster seems to have the ability to find a potential decent source, so that's a good start.

Based on what you said and what Neiks neims said, some things that I have experienced so far (although I've only had a few experiences trying to buy this stuff) are starting to make sense.

It is very difficult to break into the business, finding your sources are key. You will have to fight for it, because a lot of businesses, including mine already have them as a contact, and have the equipment/facility/etc.. What you should focus on is making contacts, and partnerships. I would locate people near you that have the equipment to handle the end process, and the licenses, then I would go out and look for odd sources that are outside the box. The best sources are larger facilities like warehouses, offices, or store fronts with high turnover rates of their product. Another route you could take, is say, find someone with the shredding equipment, and work out a deal to be a collection point for that business. You would need a dedicated space for a bin to be placed, the bin could be the size of a 10 yard dumpster. If you're residential, you may need to make that dedicated area the garage, as to not be unsightly. You will have specifics in place of what you take in, how take them in, what you have to reject, and so on and so on. Once you're able to display you can do this for a company that has the equipment, and partner up, they can usually extend their license in some aspects to you, as technically you would be working for them.
If you end up doing this, you would most likely only take in laptops, desktops, occasional server/networking equipment, routers, dvrs, cable boxes. Only as a collection point though, no money exchange, not buying it from people, and unless you work it out with the business you're partnered with, you're not allowed to keep any of the equipment brought in. It's gets very technical, and is advisable to have a thorough daily record of what is brought in, and recorded camera coverage to be able to show the business. Things you would not take are tvs, monitors, printers, batteries, anything with chemicals, or capable of causing harm if improperly stored for almost any reason.

One other route you could take, is get a resale license, and only advertise as buying used equipment, you will have to still have a place that you're able to prove that you took equipment to for proper disposal if you do anything beyond selling the equipment as it is. the places could be various board buying facilities or operations like mine, but the places must have the licenses to do it.

Just food for thought.

 

[silversaddle1]

IDK, the part about removing fingers and devaluing the product. Not in all cases. There are some really good finger cards that can go into the telecom grade even with the fingers removed. Also, power supplies from lots of enterprise equipment have gold finger connectors these days. These sell for the same price around here with or without the fingers. At one time, we trimmed fingers off everything that came thru. Not so much anymore. Time and energy runs lower now. Still have a bunch of fingers though. MAybe someday.

 

[AMS-Pro]

IDK, the part about removing fingers and devaluing the product. Not in all cases. There are some really good finger cards that can go into the telecom grade even with the fingers removed. Also, power supplies from lots of enterprise equipment have gold finger connectors these days. These sell for the same price around here with or without the fingers. At one time, we trimmed fingers off everything that came thru. Not so much anymore. Time and energy runs lower now. Still have a bunch of fingers though. MAybe someday.

Lord man, you have me going back to work over here, and digging through my stockpile for examples. I was just sitting down and enjoying my coffee.

Here's a picture of what I believe Silversaddle1 is referring to for reference.

Edit* I just realized it looks a little blurry when zoomed in. If you want a better picture closer up, let me know.

 

[silversaddle1]

Lord man, you have me going back to work over here, and digging through my stockpile for examples. I was just sitting down and enjoying my coffee.

Here's a picture of what I believe Silversaddle1 is referring to for reference.

Edit* I just realized it looks a little blurry when zoomed in. If you want a better picture closer up, let me know.

Correct.

 

[icejj]

It is very difficult to break into the business, finding your sources are key. You will have to fight for it, because a lot of businesses, including mine already have them as a contact, and have the equipment/facility/etc.. What you should focus on is making contacts, and partnerships. I would locate people near you that have the equipment to handle the end process, and the licenses, then I would go out and look for odd sources that are outside the box. The best sources are larger facilities like warehouses, offices, or store fronts with high turnover rates of their product. Another route you could take, is say, find someone with the shredding equipment, and work out a deal to be a collection point for that business. You would need a dedicated space for a bin to be placed, the bin could be the size of a 10 yard dumpster. If you're residential, you may need to make that dedicated area the garage, as to not be unsightly. You will have specifics in place of what you take in, how take them in, what you have to reject, and so on and so on. Once you're able to display you can do this for a company that has the equipment, and partner up, they can usually extend their license in some aspects to you, as technically you would be working for them.
If you end up doing this, you would most likely only take in laptops, desktops, occasional server/networking equipment, routers, dvrs, cable boxes. Only as a collection point though, no money exchange, not buying it from people, and unless you work it out with the business you're partnered with, you're not allowed to keep any of the equipment brought in. It's gets very technical, and is advisable to have a thorough daily record of what is brought in, and recorded camera coverage to be able to show the business. Things you would not take are tvs, monitors, printers, batteries, anything with chemicals, or capable of causing harm if improperly stored for almost any reason.

One other route you could take, is get a resale license, and only advertise as buying used equipment, you will have to still have a place that you're able to prove that you took equipment to for proper disposal if you do anything beyond selling the equipment as it is. the places could be various board buying facilities or operations like mine, but the places must have the licenses to do it.

Just food for thought.

This was very helpful! Thanks a ton for your response, as this is a great starting point for me. Especially the licensing aspect.

 

[AMS-Pro]

This was very helpful! Thanks a ton for your response, as this is a great starting point for me. Especially the licensing aspect.

You're welcome, options are good. The licensing/certification aspect is definitely important, it's what will get you recurring source material with bigger companies. Some key things to be prepared for: have comfortable boots, a good coffeemaker, a comfortable chair, a lot of phone calls, and a lot of leg work because face time in real life is important.

 

[silver1]

I get 20% to toll refine fingers. I'm doing 100 lbs now. 1 gal of hcl per 10 lbs materials.
10 gallons total hcl. X $6 gal = $60. Set it and forget it so time wise... 2hr. Filtering the foils.... 2hrs.
AR phase... dissolving, filtering..... 2-3 hrs. Chemicals.... $25-$30.
Average yield 2 grams/lb. This is because some will be higher in yield, some will be lower, but on a large lot figure 2 grams/lb. Total yield = 200 grams. Fee @ 20% = 40 grams. Current spot price = $1834. Total revenue from fingers = $2358. Total chemical cost say $100. Total time say 8 hours.
Total revenue after cost $2258.
Revenue / hours worked = $295 per hr. After that a few more expenses, but still dam good money with 0% risk on my part!

 

[orvi]

I get 20% to toll refine fingers. I'm doing 100 lbs now. 1 gal of hcl per 10 lbs materials.
10 gallons total hcl. X $6 gal = $60. Set it and forget it so time wise... 2hr. Filtering the foils.... 2hrs.
AR phase... dissolving, filtering..... 2-3 hrs. Chemicals.... $25-$30.
Average yield 2 grams/lb. This is because some will be higher in yield, some will be lower, but on a large lot figure 2 grams/lb. Total yield = 200 grams. Fee @ 20% = 40 grams. Current spot price = $1834. Total revenue from fingers = $2358. Total chemical cost say $100. Total time say 8 hours.
Total revenue after cost $2258.
Revenue / hours worked = $295 per hr. After that a few more expenses, but still dam good money with 0% risk on my part!

Sad that toll refining do not work much here. People simply do not have the trust needed. Only very trusted guys doing things that not to much others can extract/do properly (like MLCCs, PGMs, high temp smelting etc.). Because hoarders and buyers of such waste have no other option. Tolls are various here, from 10-30%, depending on material.
More common is refining for fixed ammount of money, say 10-100euros for processing kilo of something. And also it does not work very good here exactly the same reasons.
So any noob is doing everything on his own, want to know everything from you, see you working... Sometimes it gets annoying with people who completely lack any chemistry knowledge and skills, in addition with short memory They just see the money, money, money. I stopped doing this pretty much.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I get 20% to toll refine fingers. I'm doing 100 lbs now. 1 gal of hcl per 10 lbs materials.
10 gallons total hcl. X $6 gal = $60. Set it and forget it so time wise... 2hr. Filtering the foils.... 2hrs.
AR phase... dissolving, filtering..... 2-3 hrs. Chemicals.... $25-$30.
Average yield 2 grams/lb. This is because some will be higher in yield, some will be lower, but on a large lot figure 2 grams/lb. Total yield = 200 grams. Fee @ 20% = 40 grams. Current spot price = $1834. Total revenue from fingers = $2358. Total chemical cost say $100. Total time say 8 hours.
Total revenue after cost $2258.
Revenue / hours worked = $295 per hr. After that a few more expenses, but still dam good money with 0% risk on my part!

Nice indeed.
Love it.

 

[AMS-Pro]

I get 20% to toll refine fingers. I'm doing 100 lbs now. 1 gal of hcl per 10 lbs materials.
10 gallons total hcl. X $6 gal = $60. Set it and forget it so time wise... 2hr. Filtering the foils.... 2hrs.
AR phase... dissolving, filtering..... 2-3 hrs. Chemicals.... $25-$30.
Average yield 2 grams/lb. This is because some will be higher in yield, some will be lower, but on a large lot figure 2 grams/lb. Total yield = 200 grams. Fee @ 20% = 40 grams. Current spot price = $1834. Total revenue from fingers = $2358. Total chemical cost say $100. Total time say 8 hours.
Total revenue after cost $2258.
Revenue / hours worked = $295 per hr. After that a few more expenses, but still dam good money with 0% risk on my part!

Good spreadsheet, and numbers. Do you do a gold purity analysis?

​

 

[AMS-Pro]

Sad that toll refining do not work much here. People simply do not have the trust needed. Only very trusted guys doing things that not to much others can extract/do properly (like MLCCs, PGMs, high temp smelting etc.). Because hoarders and buyers of such waste have no other option. Tolls are various here, from 10-30%, depending on material.
More common is refining for fixed ammount of money, say 10-100euros for processing kilo of something. And also it does not work very good here exactly the same reasons.
So any noob is doing everything on his own, want to know everything from you, see you working... Sometimes it gets annoying with people who completely lack any chemistry knowledge and skills, in addition with short memory They just see the money, money, money. I stopped doing this pretty much.

The trust is usually the problem, there's so many toll refiners with an immoral compass ready to take advantage of the uninformed. I like hard data, even if it's references/averages, but it's sets an expectation. I will say that I do an initial walkthrough, just to see the setup, if it's safe/clean, and a shortened walkthrough of the process, just to verify they will be successful. It's not necessarily the specific process or chemicals used that matters to me, but how their shortened walkthrough is worded or explained is what matters. You can tell if they will know how to solve a problem that may arise, or if they will have a secondary solution if a piece of equipment fails, and has downtime. Basically if they person is fluent in the process. When I'm consulted to do a performance audit in industrial operations, I look for the weak points, and how they can be resolved. I do the same when dealing with any operation initially that involves my material/time/money. If I see an issue/s beforehand, I will point it out, if I'm provided with a satisfactory resolve or explanation, then I'm content, and will commence on the business transaction. If the setup is sitting on a piece of raggedy plywood, with household items, and yard equipment in the corner, I'm going to be weary in my confidence of doing business with the person.

 

[silver1]

Good spreadsheet, and numbers. Do you do a gold purity analysis?

​

No! The only analysis i do is testing for presence of metals. Purity analysis is at the clients discretion. Performing the proper procedures and following guidelines assures the purity. It's not as simple as that, but it really is. I can't remember but maybe once or twice i got out of wack with the purity and that was always traced to faults in the procedural or processing methods and i knew at the time i was making the mistake. Those mistakes were and always will be correct free of charge with no liability on the clients part. You don't have to be a chemist, or a rocket scientist to refine. Nor do you need a whole bunch of fancy equipment and a million dollar operation. You need knowledge and discipline above all. I have a 9th grade education and a desire to succeed. Everything i learn i learn right here! Listen to the wisdom and gain the experience through methodical discipline and procedures and the rest is opportunity and hard work with an emphasis on loyalty to your clients and honesty. No one has ever been to my processing faulty i don't care how big of a client you are. Security security security is the #1 priority above all else. When a client ask to tour my facility i politely decline and explain to them that to do so would jeopardize the security of my other clients as well as their security. Those who understand, respect that and those that don't can keep moving right along. My client list comes from the fact that i offer stellar service to my clients in the way of accountability and security. I've built my reputation on it. Maybe had one unsatisfied customer in 13 years and they were a nut job to begin with. I qualify all my clients and not all money is good money.

 

[AMS-Pro]

No! The only analysis i do is testing for presence of metals. Purity analysis is at the clients discretion. Performing the proper procedures and following guidelines assures the purity. It's not as simple as that, but it really is. I can't remember but maybe once or twice i got out of wack with the purity and that was always traced to faults in the procedural or processing methods and i knew at the time i was making the mistake. Those mistakes were and always will be correct free of charge with no liability on the clients part. You don't have to be a chemist, or a rocket scientist to refine. Nor do you need a whole bunch of fancy equipment and a million dollar operation. You need knowledge and discipline above all. I have a 9th grade education and a desire to succeed. Everything i learn i learn right here! Listen to the wisdom and gain the experience through methodical discipline and procedures and the rest is opportunity and hard work with an emphasis on loyalty to your clients and honesty. No one has ever been to my processing faulty i don't care how big of a client you are. Security security security is the #1 priority above all else. When a client ask to tour my facility i politely decline and explain to them that to do so would jeopardize the security of my other clients as well as their security. Those who understand, respect that and those that don't can keep moving right along. My client list comes from the fact that i offer stellar service to my clients in the way of accountability and security. I've built my reputation on it. Maybe had one unsatisfied customer in 13 years and they were a nut job to begin with. I qualify all my clients and not all money is good money.

I will definitely agree about the security aspect, that is most certainly a very important aspect with many of my industrial clients. It is also why I have to sign an NDA (Non Disclosure Agreement) with almost every single Industrial/commercial warehouse operation I have been involved with. There's maybe 4-5 now that I haven't had to, but they were also in the setup process of a new warehouse, and not in production stage yet. What I can tell you with some of the contracts is that they can be..... difficult, especially government contracts. A lot of my clients like hard data, but I can't blame them. Loyalty and honesty with client is important, and necessary, I'm glad you have your moral right on that. It seems like you're doing pretty great with your process with only 1 negative in 13 years, great job. I hope you reach your goals that you set, and that you achieve the dreams you have.

 

[silver1]

Never had the need to sign a contract. At least not in this industry. Especially when the "G" word is involved! Never needed them folks.... don't want to deal with it. Everything i do is on a hand shake and my good word. My granddaddy taught me when i was young. A man is only as good as his word and his word is his oath. You can lose everything in this world that holds value, but never ever lose your honor. It's not about them, it's about you! Of course granddaddy was a ridge runner!

 

[AMS-Pro]

Never had the need to sign a contract. At least not in this industry. Especially when the "G" word is involved! Never needed them folks.... don't want to deal with it. Everything i do is on a hand shake and my good word. My granddaddy taught me when i was young. A man is only as good as his word and his word is his oath. You can lose everything in this world that holds value, but never ever lose your honor. It's not about them, it's about you! Of course granddaddy was a ridge runner!

It does boil down to that, a hand shake, and your word. Courteousness, and traditional. That's the wonderful part about this industry, there are many paths that are able to be taken, to get to the final goal. Whether it's keeping e-waste out of the landfill, mining ore, repurposing artifacts of time that are in the form of silverware, there are so many things in this industry that relies on tradition. Thank you for reminding all of us of that.

Again, your numbers are pretty good, you seem to be doing well. Keep safe in your process, and I'll be rooting for you.

 

[Liquidau]

Never had the need to sign a contract. At least not in this industry. Especially when the "G" word is involved! Never needed them folks.... don't want to deal with it. Everything i do is on a hand shake and my good word. My granddaddy taught me when i was young. A man is only as good as his word and his word is his oath. You can lose everything in this world that holds value, but never ever lose your honor. It's not about them, it's about you! Of course granddaddy was a ridge runner!

Bravo Silver1, you’re à crédit to our industry. How many handshake deals can any of us remember? Rare, but tremendous when you have it. Like in the diamond business. Handshakes on $100,000 stones.

 

[Ag and Au]

I am a year late to this thread, but I wanted to keep my gold calculations/yield data under the proper subject line.

I just processed 2400 grams of very clean-cut fingers from 1990's telecom boards and I am pleased to share the following results:
-- 2400 grams of clean-cut fingers (no solder/no excess circuit board) produced 17.8 grams of gold foils (using AP)
-- 17.8 grams of gold foils (cleaned and rinsed properly) produced 13.7 grams of gold (using AR)
-- My gold foils were therefore 77% pure gold (approx 18 karat)
-- My overall gold yield was 0.57% (by weight)

A picture of my first button will be available soon.
As always, I thank the members of this Forum for their outstanding support .