Red Gold Cementation on Copper?

[user 72646]

Hi All

I have some copper that I left in solution to cement out gold.

There appears to be Gold but also a reddish material on surface.

Any thoughts on the red layer?

I was thinking HCL & Bleach to dissolve gold and then SMB to drop to powder.

MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi All

I have some copper that I left in solution to cement out gold.

There appears to be Gold but also a reddish material on surface.

Any thoughts on the red layer?

I was thinking HCL & Bleach to dissolve gold and then SMB to drop to powder.

MM

What is the first picture?
Not anything cemented as far as I see, second image is plain Copper color.

 

[eaglekeeper]

I have some copper that I left in solution to cement out gold.

What was your source of copper?

 

[user 72646]

Hi

It was a piece from an electronic item (led television).


MM

 

[user 72646]

What is the first picture?
Not anything cemented as far as I see, second image is plain Copper color.

Hi
The corner of the square flat piece has the original copper colour,
The first picture is a close up of surface.

MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi
The corner of the square flat piece has the original copper colour,
The first picture is a close up of surface.

MM

This do not look like cemented metals and the lshiny piece on the Copper look like some kind of scraping of the surface.

 

[user 72646]

Hi

That is the original colour, there was a small 'fold' in the copper sheet, which has prevented cementation on that area. The original copper was bright in colour, as highlighted in image so I guess something has cemented?

this is a close up of a piece of aluminium which was also in solution

MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi

That is the original colour, there was a small 'fold' in the copper sheet, which has prevented cementation on that area. The original copper was bright in colour, as highlighted in image so I guess something has cemented?

MM

Maybe, but most likely just dicoloration due to etching in the surface.
All your metals dropped with the aluminum.

 

[user 72646]

Hi yes, there is a discolouration possibility.
Aluminium and SMB & Vit C
Are there any 'close up' pictures of cemented gold on forum
for reference?
This is an aluminium (used for cementing in same solution) close up, similar the copper close up, as the gold elements are present.

MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi yes, there is a discolouration possibility.
Aluminium and SMB & Vit C
Are there any 'close up' pictures of cemented gold on forum
for reference?
This is an aluminium close up, similar the copper close up, as the gold elements are present.

MM

So what did your Stannous say?

 

[Shark]

You really need to understand the how and why of cementation.

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/

 

[user 72646]

Black to greyish, across the golden solutions prior to aluminium drop. The dropped solutions were clear on test. the redissolved powders also gave positive reading, although faint.
MM

 

[Shark]

Why put all the metals of an item into solution only to drop them ALL back out?

The reason for refining anything is to purify it. To remove undesirable items from it. By dropping a solution with aluminum (and a few other metals as well) you remove nothing and may even be adding more (such as aluminum) to it. Properly done you remove the valuable metals from and leave the vast majority of the undesirable materials in the solution. This is the reason for many small steps that so many seem to miss. You constantly have not mentioned stannous results, never discuss filtering anything, never seem to fully dissolve all the metals, but expect to get better gold from cementing to aluminum, vit c, (I assume you mean vitamin C), and smb.

Again, it is easier to avoid a problem than it is to solve a problem. Especially from pictures and on the internet. Simply find one of the many posts with step by step details and follow it. Or even read Hoke’s book and try the experiments she outlines. You can even read this post again and find the answer to a few of your problems also.

I, and others, would really like to help you, but keep ignoring us, so why should we offer more advice?

If this sounds a bit harsh, let a moderator remove it.

 

[user 72646]

You really need to understand the how and why of cementation.

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/

Hi Shark

I am currently making a chamber for bubbling during cementation, this is previous cementation prior to seeing this post. I understand that you need the solution moving for best Iresults. will post pictures soon of finished [project.}

MM

Why put all the metals of an item into solution only to drop them ALL back out?

The reason for refining anything is to purify it. To remove undesirable items from it. By dropping a solution with aluminum (and a few other metals as well) you remove nothing and may even be adding more (such as aluminum) to it. Properly done you remove the valuable metals from and leave the vast majority of the undesirable materials in the solution. This is the reason for many small steps that so many seem to miss. You constantly have not mentioned stannous results, never discuss filtering anything, never seem to fully dissolve all the metals, but expect to get better gold from cementing to aluminum, vit c, (I assume you mean vitamin C), and smb.

Again, it is easier to avoid a problem than it is to solve a problem. Especially from pictures and on the internet. Simply find one of the many posts with step by step details and follow it. Or even read Hoke’s book and try the experiments she outlines. You can even read this post again and find the answer to a few of your problems also.

I, and others, would really like to help you, but keep ignoring us, so why should we offer more advice?

If this sounds a bit harsh, let a moderator remove it.

 

[user 72646]

Why put all the metals of an item into solution only to drop them ALL back out?

The reason for refining anything is to purify it. To remove undesirable items from it. By dropping a solution with aluminum (and a few other metals as well) you remove nothing and may even be adding more (such as aluminum) to it. Properly done you remove the valuable metals from and leave the vast majority of the undesirable materials in the solution. This is the reason for many small steps that so many seem to miss. You constantly have not mentioned stannous results, never discuss filtering anythiagain HCL Bleach then droppoedng, never seem to fully dissolve all the metals, but expect to get better gold from cementing to aluminum, vit c, (I assume you mean vitamin C), and smb.

Again, it is easier to avoid a problem than it is to solve a problem. Especially from pictures and on the internet. Simply find one of the many posts with step by step details and follow it. Or even read Hoke’s book and try the experiments she outlines. You can even read this post again and find the answer to a few of your problems also.

I, and others, would really like to help you, but keep ignoring us, so why should we offer more advice?

If this sounds a bit harsh, let a moderator remove it.

You're not reading my posts. This solution is the same solution I used for 1.3kg electronic items. HCL Bleach 1 day HCL and Peroxode 5 days, all on bubbler. Solutions filtered powders dissolved, then dropped with Aluminium (I now understand everything below Al would be present in powders). These powders were again dissolved and dropped with Vit C and SMB. The process leads to gold in solution even a small amount. Then after smelt I got a tiny bead Ag Au alloy, the cemented elements came from solutions, from same batch. Stannous Black to Greyish across 4 x 100ml instances of solution, so varied levels of gold present. Not much, but some.
MM

 

[andu]

You're not reading my posts. This solution is the same solution I used for 1.3kg electronic items. HCL Bleach 1 day HCL and Peroxode 5 days, all on bubbler. Solutions filtered powders dissolved, then dropped with Aluminium (I now understand everything below Al would be present in powders). These powders were again dissolved and dropped with Vit C and SMB. The process leads to gold in solution even a small amount. Then after smelt I got a tiny bead Ag Au alloy, the cemented elements came from solutions, from same batch. Stannous Black to Greyish across 4 x 100ml instances of solution, so varied levels of gold present. Not much, but some.
MM

This is exactly what I done with the RRU boards, except i only used hcl and peroxide with bubbler, i filtered whatever gold foils and components left, and got leftover like half kilo of oxides mainly copper looking but fairly colored. This was from two boards and i am yet to re-process everything eventually and get a yield. There's a somewhat obvious layer of copper inside the board, I can't recall if I disposed of the boards or not.

 

[eaglekeeper]

Hi All

I have some copper that I left in solution to cement out gold.

There appears to be Gold but also a reddish material on surface.

Any thoughts on the red layer?

I was thinking HCL & Bleach to dissolve gold and then SMB to drop to powder.

MM

What was your source of copper?

The reason I ask that question is because your copper sheet might be copper plated steel. The steel would cement out any copper (and a few others) in solution, that would account for the red cement on the surface.

Or maybe I'm not following this thread close enough and missed something.

 

[Shark]

You're not reading my posts. This solution is the same solution I used for 1.3kg electronic items. HCL Bleach 1 day HCL and Peroxode 5 days, all on bubbler. Solutions filtered powders dissolved, then dropped with Aluminium (I now understand everything below Al would be present in powders). These powders were again dissolved and dropped with Vit C and SMB. The process leads to gold in solution even a small amount. Then after smelt I got a tiny bead Ag Au alloy, the cemented elements came from solutions, from same batch. Stannous Black to Greyish across 4 x 100ml instances of solution, so varied levels of gold present. Not much, but some.
MM

Yes I have read them. Yes, all of them, even though they are scattered all across the forum. It would have been much easier to follow had they all been posted to in the original thread. It would help others trying to give advice to know where they are as well. It would also help others who read them to know where the rest are located so they might be able to find answers to their future questions as well.

I am still not sure why you needed both ascorbic acid and SMB for the drop.

But back to the cementing on to copper. You ask about the gold(?) attached to the copper in one of the pictures. If that is gold, then you didn’t fully dissolve your metals to start with. You won’t get gold flakes from cementation, unless they come from the copper being used in the process.

 

[user 72646]

The reason I ask that question is because your copper sheet might be copper plated steel. The steel would cement out any copper (and a few others) in solution, that would account for the red cement on the surface.

Or maybe I'm not following this thread close enough and missed something.

Hi

I have just torn the copper sheet and it is not plated, the original colour is present beneath the cemented material.

What do you think of the piece of aluminium in other photo 'close up'.
it was in same solution.




MM

 

[user 72646]

Yes I have read them. Yes, all of them, even though they are scattered all across the forum. It would have been much easier to follow had they all been posted to in the original thread. It would help others trying to give advice to know where they are as well. It would also help others who read them to know where the rest are located so they might be able to find answers to their future questions as well.

I am still not sure why you needed both ascorbic acid and SMB for the drop.

But back to the cementing on to copper. You ask about the gold(?) attached to the copper in one of the pictures. If that is gold, then you didn’t fully dissolve your metals to start with. You won’t get gold flakes from cementation, unless they come from the copper being used in the process.

Hi
when you say flakes only present if copper has been used in process.. What are the conditions?
This was my AP solution copper chloride with a gold slick? The copper would/may have been on the Electronic items I used?