Refining gone wrong! Help please.

[Yoyobaby]

Hey guys, i came on the forum to ask a question about some refining im doing wrong. I do have some chemistry from college but i suck at it. I have been looking into and wanting to refine some gold for a few years as it is kinda relevant in terms of my degree. Anyway, this is what i did wrong.
I had 4 to 6 grams of unknown kt of gold in hydroclric acid saturated with nitrate salts.
After all gold was desalved i added smb and there was no reaction. Solution was green.
I used lead free solder in hydroclric to test for gold. I did not see any reaction so just messing around i put equal parts of gold bearing and test solution. Like 2 mills of each.
This produced a brown solid.
This is my first time and refine and the msds on the solder is 4 parts tin one part copper. Like i said im not great with chemistry and figure the copper is cementing out the gold?
I mess around some more and divide solution into 2 vessels. I charge one with copper and the other with solder. Waited 24 hours and ended up with black solid. At this point i think that i should allow to set and continue cementing and then give it another go.
And i did. This time however, i used 3 parts hydroclric to one part bleach and (this is after filtering and rinsing black solid) solution is yellow green and super cloudy.
With out doing anything a layer of white solid settles on the bottom. It almost looks neon green.
Any way i start filtering white solid and start messing around as nd again smb does not drop any gold. I thing maybe i need to nuetralize and use baking soda. A lot of baking soda.
Still no reaction. I try testing and no reaction. I then add maybe 20 ml of gold bearing to 5 ml of test solution and solution turns redish brown. It still has white solid that im trying to filter out but green color is totally gone.
Anyway, what i do? I dont mind doing it this way i guess but seems like wast.
Any one got any idea's on what im doing? Thanks

 

[Pantherlikher]

Ummm... Hello Yoyobaby
I really hope you find another field of study as here in "collecting and refining", Non of us Mess around or just Try things.

STOP NOW PLEASE!

Take any solution you have and put clean copper wire in it and store in a lightly covered container.

That is the only thing you can do at this point. You started out wrong by not learning what to do, when, and why as well as what can happen.
I see you failed at learning the most important thing in Chemistry as well as life in general.
Learn as much as possible before diving into unknown waters.

Not many here wish to respond to a post with so much crap making a small mess even larger and more dangerous but "just messing around"

What you need to do is goto the welcome screen here at the beginning of the forum and begin reading. That's the only good answer to all your questions.
Collecting gold and other PMs from base metals is involved and requires learning how, when, why and what can happen. As well as proper safety and disposal of everything so as not to cause harm to anything.

Good luck and really hope you begin and long and fun filled journey here.

B.S.
...Would you walk blindly through a mind field? Or follow the path others have blazed?...

 

[butcher]

Yoyobaby,
I have to agree comments and suggestion for help from Pantherlikher, it looks like you found only enough information to make a dangerous mess in your trial at recovery and refining of the gold, this field of work takes much more study and work to become successful, there are many small details which are important, these details take time to learn, the work and chemistry of these metals can be very dangerous to work with, there are many dangers involved you need to be aware of, dealing with waste improperly can also make your trials a danger to others with the toxic substances you produce.

If you just want a fun hobby to mess around with try picking another one.
If your willing to study and work hard to learn a valuable skill in recovery and refining you have found the best place.

Put away the chemicals and get out the tools needed to get the job done, first begin with gaining the education and understanding of what you are attempting to do, study the safety and dangers involved, so you can protect yourself and not become a danger to others.

The safety section is a good place to begin, there is also a good thread on properly dealing with waste...

Hokes book will help you in understanding the basic principles, it is easy to read, but a book you may need to read several times to gain a good understanding of the principles.

The forums guided tour in the general chat section will be a good guide through many of the processes discussed on the forum.

Welcome to the forum, this is a serious skill we discuss here, and we all take it serious, not something you should or can just jump into and do safely or properly, without spending a heck of a lot of time studying it.

 

[Yoyobaby]

Thanks for the input guys. Im gonna take your advice, kinda. Im actually messing around with metal smithing. Learning this would be great. I started this project looking at it as a learning experience. A very dangerous one.
Anyway, i think i did it rite the first time but over saturated with nitrate salts. I ended up distilled water do to build up. So when i added smb there was no instant reaction so i figured i screwed up.
Im gonna leave it alone for now. I may dispose of it or try again. Im not sure.
I did mess around with about 10 mls. When adding test solution slowly it goes from a clearish green to a cloudy yellow. Im thinking that theres some copper cloride in there. If i continue add test solution yellow turns clear and i get red brown solid.
Im gonna put the rest on the back burning and keep messing with the 10mls. Right now im leaving it in yellow faze where i will allow white solid to settle and then mess with it some more.
I think this stuff is wicked cool. Im being safe tho.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Thanks for the input guys. Im gonna take your advice, kinda. Im actually messing around with metal smithing. Learning this would be great. I started this project looking at it as a learning experience. A very dangerous one.
Anyway, i think i did it rite the first time but over saturated with nitrate salts. I ended up distilled water do to build up. So when i added smb there was no instant reaction so i figured i screwed up.
Im gonna leave it alone for now. I may dispose of it or try again. Im not sure.
I did mess around with about 10 mls. When adding test solution slowly it goes from a clearish green to a cloudy yellow. Im thinking that theres some copper cloride in there. If i continue add test solution yellow turns clear and i get red brown solid.
Im gonna put the rest on the back burning and keep messing with the 10mls. Right now im leaving it in yellow faze where i will allow white solid to settle and then mess with it some more.
I think this stuff is wicked cool. Im being safe tho.

No, you're not. You're throwing chemicals together with no idea what will happen.

Perhaps it's just a speech pattern with you, but if you post again about "messing" with stuff, I suggest that no one respond. As you've already been told, we do NOT "mess" with this stuff.

We don't allow text lingo here. The forum is international, and it doesn't translate well.

Dave

 

[artart47]

Hi there !
Put all the stuff away! Don't throw anything away. you can recover your precious metal later after you know what you're doing.
Go to the index board, read the materials for new members,
The way you are going now will be like duck hunting with Dick Cheney. It will end in failure and no ducks!
artart47

 

[bswartzwelder]

I agree with what everyone else has suggested. I only hope you did your "messing around" out doors. If not, we will most likely be reading about you in the obituary column. You may have put everyone around you at great risk. The chemicals we use ARE very dangerous for the inexperienced person. You could easily make cyanide, release chlorine gas, hydrogen sulfide gas, or even make an explosive mixture. Definitely NOT something to be messing around with.

 

[user 48644]

Hi guys I decided to write in a forum because I'm really going crazy and I can't understand, I'm trying to make some honest money after a very hard life, I can say that this project changed my life but still I can't succes.

I'm trying to refine gold from scrap CPUs ect, I am trying many ways like Electrowinning, Aqua regia ect, first I tried Aqua regia but I couldn't succes because I didn't have to much money for the urea, then I decided it to buy an dc power supply 50A 15v came about 300€ from China and the copper was taking over the gold, then I saw that to separate copper from gold I need to boil 50% nitric acid 68% with 50% distilled water and everything was coming in to liquid, I said maybe because I'm boiling on a very hot digress then I bough some books and it said that the digress of separating gold from copper with 50% nitric and 50% distilled water is between 70-90 digress. And for another time every thing came in to liquid again I'm collecting everything with Electrowinning system in metal form again and I don't know if I'm collecting all,but I don't know where the gold is,or where it went and what I'm doing wrong. If please someone can help me and maybe explain me what I'm doing wrong it will be very appreciated and I will share the book and videos I bought if this needed. Thanks you very much hope to find a way on this problems.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Chimera, I can understand your frustration. It sounds like you're trying many things, perhaps at times combining parts of different procedures.

You mention that you're trying to refine gold from scrap CPUs. There are several different types of CPUs, and they respond best to different procedures. You say you couldn't succeed with aqua regia because you couldn't afford urea (which you don't need), but you bought a power supply for 300€. I can't really follow some of what you said about using the acids.

It sounds like you have a problem that many new members have encountered. You have learned parts of different processes from sources that may have left out some important parts. I'd suggest you stop trying what you're doing, as it obviously isn't working. You'll need to spend some time studying to learn about the different types of CPUs and which process is best for which type.

You haven't mentioned whether you've tested any of your solutions to see if you've dissolved any gold. That would be a good place to start. If you have gold in solution, you can always recover from a mess by cementing it out with copper. If there is no gold in solution, it will be among the solids at the bottom of your containers. You can pour off the solutions, treat them for waste, and dispose of them properly. Save the solids until you understand more about what to do with them.

Dave

 

[user 48644]

Dear frugalrefiner

Thanks a lot for your prompt replay.

I decided to buy a dc power supply because it's reusable and I tought it's easier to refine gold but copper it's taking over the gold sir. Do you know if they are being collecting all together please? Or frist the copper and then the gold?

Can you please explain me why I don't need urea? If I refine with Aqua regia I need metabisulphite to neutralize hydrochloride and urea to neutralize nitric acid right?

I'm ending with some little brown mud but when I wash it with boiling nitric acid it's coming everything in to liquid again.

Will you please explain me the best way to wash that last brown mud?

Thanks a lot really appreciate your help friend.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I decided to buy a dc power supply because it's reusable and I tought it's easier to refine gold but copper it's taking over the gold sir. Do you know if they are being collecting all together please? Or frist the copper and then the gold?

If you're just dissolving everything and then trying to recover the metals by electrowinning, you'll probably have a mix of metals being deposited.

Can you please explain me why I don't need urea? If I refine with Aqua regia I need metabisulphite to neutralize hydrochloride and urea to neutralize nitric acid right?

You don't need urea because there are better ways to eliminate excess nitric acid. The best way is to not use too much nitric in the first place. If you only use enough nitric to dissolve your gold, you won't have an excess that needs to be eliminated. If you do use too much, you can use the classic evaporation method as described by Hoke, or you can use a gold button as described by Harold_V, or you can use sulfamic acid as described in many threads on the forum.

Metabisulfite does not neutralize hydrochloric acid. It reacts with the acid to create SO₂ gas, which then reduces the dissolved gold back to a metal.

I'm ending with some little brown mud but when I wash it with boiling nitric acid it's coming everything in to liquid again.

You probably still have chlorides along with your brown mud. Adding nitric acid creates aqua regia again and puts your gold back into solution.

Will you please explain me the best way to wash that last brown mud?

There are several washing procedures described on the forum. You'll find Harold_V's process in the Library. Lazersteve, Lou, and others have also provided detailed procedures. Keep studying and it will all start to make sense.

Dave